#1
I'm sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, not sure where to put it.

I need a PA system because I am tired of trying to be heard with a 150w 2x12 guitar amp over metal guitar and drums. Yes I do scream, but I sing too.

I'm sure this thread has been posted before by someone, but the thing with me is I ONLY want this for practice. I don't care how crappy the sound is, or if its okay for playing small venues.

The ONLY thing I want this for is so I can be heard over the instruments. That's it. It doesn't even have to be crisply heard over top of the instruments. I just need to throw it into the mix for practices.

There are a lot of cheap brand PA's out there that run 100W or more, but I don't know a thing about this stuff, so I hope you guys can help.

Thanks.
#3
You shouldn't need a PA. That is an assload of power. I think your problem is sound projection. Try tilting your amp back. It could make a world of difference. Just be careful when you do, and lean it against something sturdy. Best option would be to buy a rack specifically for that, but obviously you should just try it first to see how much that helps.
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#4
Quote by Offworld92
You shouldn't need a PA. That is an assload of power. I think your problem is sound projection. Try tilting your amp back. It could make a world of difference. Just be careful when you do, and lean it against something sturdy. Best option would be to buy a rack specifically for that, but obviously you should just try it first to see how much that helps.


He's the vocalist and his guitarist has a 150W 212
#5
... Well then. I'm just gonna... yeah.

Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#6
Quote by GS LEAD 5
He's the vocalist and his guitarist has a 150W 212


No the guitarist uses an all tube halfstack. I am using the 2x12 combo amp for vocals.

I will try tilting it more but that didn't seem to help much last time. So a keyboard amp might be the solution?
#7
So I tried it today with very loud drums and a halfstack cranked and I could hear myself, just not well at all. If this is with a 2x12 guitar amp do you guys suggest a keyboard amp, cheapo PA system, or what?
#8
Well... Don't crank the freaking halfstack lol.... Your practicing, no need to kill your hearing before your 25!
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#9
Quote by MaVN
Well... Don't crank the freaking halfstack lol.... Your practicing, no need to kill your hearing before your 25!


We aren't really not trying to. We had to turn it up in order to hear over the drums.

Does anyone have advice on what to get? I heard someone say a keyboard amp...would this be better than a cheaper 100W PA system?
#10
I understand where you're coming from, so I know how hard this is to deal with, but your drummer needs to learn to control his technique. It's very hard, and very few drummers, especially in the heavier genres, really know how. But that's the best, most important option.

Otherwise, you just have to save up and get a decent PA that you can spread around.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#11
Quote by KurtGotMurdered
No the guitarist uses an all tube halfstack. I am using the 2x12 combo amp for vocals.

I will try tilting it more but that didn't seem to help much last time. So a keyboard amp might be the solution?


Dont use a guitar amp for vocals thats probably your problem.

Grab a keyboard amp. THose things are essentially PA's in combo form.

One question what guitar amp is it?
Because a 75Watt SS amp can easily manage with a drummer no matter how mad he s
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Oct 6, 2011,
#13
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Dont use a guitar amp for vocals thats probably your problem.

Grab a keyboard amp. THose things are essentially PA's in combo form.

One question what guitar amp is it?
Because a 75Watt SS amp can easily manage with a drummer no matter how mad he s



The amp was a Line 6. I don't know the model, but it wasn't a spider...it was something that actually used tubes and sounded good. It could manage fine, and it wasn't turned up that high...only enough to match the drums.

So the question here is, is it better to get the keyboard amp or a cheaper PA system. My only issue with the keyboard amp is that the guitar player does singing, so we would need another mic hooked up.

I was looking at this and while I'm sure you guys will think its crap, again I don't care about sound...just volume. All of the venues I will play out have their own systems.

http://www.music123.com/productDetail/productDetail.jsp?entSkuId=423427007000025&source=ZWBZWXX
#14
Quote by KurtGotMurdered
The amp was a Line 6. I don't know the model, but it wasn't a spider...it was something that actually used tubes and sounded good. It could manage fine, and it wasn't turned up that high...only enough to match the drums.

So the question here is, is it better to get the keyboard amp or a cheaper PA system. My only issue with the keyboard amp is that the guitar player does singing, so we would need another mic hooked up.

I was looking at this and while I'm sure you guys will think its crap, again I don't care about sound...just volume. All of the venues I will play out have their own systems.

http://www.music123.com/productDetail/productDetail.jsp?entSkuId=423427007000025&source=ZWBZWXX



A keyboard amp IS a PA
And 120W of SS power wont cut it over something like a 6505.
Also that isnt the RMS value. Its the peak value. So the actual output i likely closer to 60W. Which just wont cut it against 100W tube heads. 300W is the bare minimum I would go.
What amps are your guitarists using?
This is the cheapest I would recommend.
http://www.music123.com/Pro-Audio/Live-Sound/Live-Sound-Packages/Escort-3000-Portable-PA-System.site7prod476310.product
#17
Thanks for the info everyone. I don't know a lot about this stuff.

Quote by 667
This is what we use...

It's great for getting vocals over drums. It's 4 channels with a built in EQ. Not bad at all for under 3 bills.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS363US363&q=behringer+keyboard+amp&um=1&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1922389554370255552#


If this would fit my needs, that would be a great price range. Any opinions on this one?
#19
Guitar amps/speakers dont really have the right frequency response for blasting vocals through.

A keyboard amp would be much better, and stick it on a table or something so it projects better.

But considering this is for band practice you probably want an active wedge monitor, since thats what theyre for, so you can hear yourself.

If your playing small clubs and gigs and you cant even cut through over your apeish heavy handed drummer in a practice situation. You are going to sound ****ing terrible live. Tell him to stop bashing the kit like its Hitler and learn to use some dynamics in his playing. You all need to work together to make sure you sound right in the mix and the frequencies dont clash.

Behringer are shite. Id reccomend this instead
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/masracspgrmo.html
You can hooke it up to another powered monitor/mixing desk aswell.
Last edited by beckyjc at Oct 8, 2011,
#20
Just a thought but what mics are you using?a hotter one like a Beta 58 might help. You might also want to check in to an active pa speaker some have xlr inputs a Behringer eurolive 212 or something of that sort with a stand to get it off the floor might work well..
#21
Quote by beckyjc
Guitar amps/speakers dont really have the right frequency response for blasting vocals through.

A keyboard amp would be much better, and stick it on a table or something so it projects better.

But considering this is for band practice you probably want an active wedge monitor, since thats what theyre for, so you can hear yourself.

If your playing small clubs and gigs and you cant even cut through over your apeish heavy handed drummer in a practice situation. You are going to sound ****ing terrible live. Tell him to stop bashing the kit like its Hitler and learn to use some dynamics in his playing. You all need to work together to make sure you sound right in the mix and the frequencies dont clash.

Behringer are shite. Id reccomend this instead
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/masracspgrmo.html
You can hooke it up to another powered monitor/mixing desk aswell.


I realize behringer is garbage from playing their amps and using other things made by them. I have heard that their PA's are a different story and they are better than other products. Some reviews I've read from death metal players say they can hear very loud over the instruments (our stuff is nowhere near that heavy). I don't know how true this is though.

I know what you mean about the drums but he isn't really playing hard. The style of screaming I do really isn't that loud unless mic'd. It relies on being amplified to get over the sound. My singing actually is much much louder.

So is something like what you linked loud enough for my applications?
#22
IMO you can get a cheap PA system
or nice 12" PA wedge that will work fine
for practices.

if you put it up high you'll hear it better.
(edit: i mean lift it up off the floor, not just high volume)

if you can buy used, even better.

I'd go for a powered speaker I could use as
a monitor or add to a better PA system
when I had more funds.


edit: example, something i picked up a year or so ago,
to add to my yamaha system. pretty versatile for the price.
especially if you pick up a cheap mixer and line in.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Harbinger-APS15-15--Powered-PA-Speaker-105122774-i1430143.gc#

these things are huge, but has a handle and is all in one piece so
it's surprisingly portable.. it can be put on a stand,
used as a stage monitor, on it's own or in combo with a system.

it's got xlr and line in inputs...
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Last edited by jj1565 at Oct 9, 2011,
#23
PA's can be tricky. I always suggest getting a bigger one than you think you need. Especially if you have a loud drummer. You don't need a 1600W system or anything, but you don't want to spend money on a 100W behringer and find out it's no better than what you have now. Though I'd imagine nearly anything would work better than vocals through a guitar amp.

which leads me to a question.... You're using a mic with a 1/4" stereo plug going into the 1/4" input on the guitar amp, or are you adapting an XLR mic to 1/4" ?? I've heard of people having problems with adapters making the mic sound like crap, and just with the 1/4" jack mics in general. XLR is the way to go. I tried a few different mics, and the best one by far that I used was the Shure beta 58. It's a little pricey, but it's WAY better than the other mics I tried.

I'd second the floor wedge option. They should work great for practice, they're made to project vocals over loud instruments, and when you start gigging it's always good to have an extra monitor. Even if you only use it as a backup live.
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