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#1
Seriously!

I was looking at a Selmer Mark VI the other day when i was considering a new Sax, holy crap. You can get a couple pristine but albeit used custom shop gibsons for what those cost.

My gal was considering a new harp, not anymore. I told her i'd find her a nice old ES-125 and I'd give her "lessons".

Man compared to what other quality pro level instruments cost, I'm completely confused as to why Gibson guitars are so damn inexpensive.

Help me here!

OK, graded levels of quality tone woods imported from around the world. Machined to specs and hand finished, each one is truly unique.

Varying grades of models that come as cheap as what? $600? $700? I nearly crapped myself when I saw that bonerific blue Jr staring at me on wildwood guitar's site. Must. Resist.

Are you effin' kidding me?

I've seen guitars made in the far east that cost $1000 to $2000.

Anyone know what the labor costs in the US are in comparison?

Then I scanned the MLP classifieds, there is a few nice standards and classics that have gone for around 60% of what a new standard sells for.



Man, I feel truly lucky that my parents let me take guitar lessons and not piano, sax or french horn when I was in my school years. I'd be poor as hell right now if that were the case and I wanted a "quality pro level instrument".

Thanks Gibson, some of us players really do appreciate the varying level of offerings!

#2
a Harp really c'mon. considering they are way bigger and need more wood and tuning keys not a big shock that they cost more. i'm sure that the sax used rare tone metals so once again of course it's more expensive. just get yourself an Agile harp and sax, just as good as the name brand ones for way cheaper
#3
Well, actually quality Gibson's do cost anywhere from $1000 to $4000 at the Gibson custom shops. I don't know of any $600 Gibsons, but I imagine they are comparable to other guitars in the $400 - $800 range. I myself do indeed love Gibson's, but I think your exaggerating their "adequate" prices just a bit.
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#4
Some pianos cost as much as cars. It's all about what people will buy man, a guitar is worth what customers will pay for it, nothing more. There's extremely low demand for $5000 guitars so Gibson prices lower to get more market share.
Last edited by Necronomicon at Oct 5, 2011,
#5
I love this thread.

I was watching an interview with the Paul Reed Smith yesterday, the one posted in the "21 rules" thread. He said bassists and drummers expect to pay a lot for good instruments, but guitarists want everything cheaper. I thought that was pretty funny because it's true.

Because there are so many guitarists, and so many cheap brands, many people don't understand why you would pay thousands for a Gibson when Agile and Epiphone only cost hundreds. It's really quite sad, and Gibson seems to take more heat than any of the other high-end manufacturers.

You know, I don't care what anyone says, Gibson makes a damn fine guitars. I've yet to hold the shoddy Les Paul that many claim to have witnessed.

But I guess with great influence comes great scrutiny?
#6
Quote by Vypor
Well, actually quality Gibson's do cost anywhere from $1000 to $4000 at the Gibson custom shops. I don't know of any $600 Gibsons, but I imagine they are comparable to other guitars in the $400 - $800 range. I myself do indeed love Gibson's, but I think your exaggerating their "adequate" prices just a bit.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-melody-maker-electric-guitar/512640

edit: fixed link
Last edited by W4RP1G at Oct 5, 2011,
#8
I find Gibsons great value for the money, especially their lower range offerings.
My next guitar is probably going to be a Gibson.

GIBSUN BAST GEETAR 4 TEH MONEY EVAH!

#9
Quote by shwilly
-> "You have arrived here because the page that you are looking for no longer exist"

Cool story brah

gah

Ok, basically, just go on musicians friend, select electric guitars, select Gibson, and sort by lowest price first .


#10
Lolz stupid thread is stupid...

Apart from stereotypes, what makes you think Gibson are the most 'expensive' guitar manufacturer or the one with the highest quality? Also, what everyone else has said about cost of materials/parts and size/complexity of the instrument.
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#11
Quote by Vypor
Well, actually quality Gibson's do cost anywhere from $1000 to $4000 at the Gibson custom shops. I don't know of any $600 Gibsons, but I imagine they are comparable to other guitars in the $400 - $800 range. I myself do indeed love Gibson's, but I think your exaggerating their "adequate" prices just a bit.

http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/electrics/gibson/junior/124310340/124310340.php

right....
#12
electric guitars are cheaper than say a Harp because they can be mass produced. when was the last time you saw a video tour of a huge harp factory on you tube? when you get right down to it they aren't all that sophisticated either. also it seems that the amp is never included as part of the equation. once you add in a good amp then the cost goes up and can approach some of the acoustic instruments mentioned. add a $3000 Mesa amp to that $4000 LP and it's starting to get up there. oh wait need a few high quality fx damn there goes the price again. not really cheaper if you think about it.
#13
mono, really? youtube? there is a harp mfg right here in Chicago, been there. irl.

Quote by DisarmGoliath
Lolz stupid thread is stupid...

Apart from stereotypes, what makes you think Gibson are the most 'expensive' guitar manufacturer or the one with the highest quality? Also, what everyone else has said about cost of materials/parts and size/complexity of the instrument.

stupid post is stupid bra.

who said i think that gibson is the most expensive guitar?

i said, "quality pro level instrument".



re-read for better accuracy next time.

my gibson wasn't my most expensive guitar anyway.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Oct 5, 2011,
#14
You're right. Gibsons are dirt cheap...compared to Ritter basses:



It can be yours...for US$250,000.00.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#15
anyone aside mono see the "compared to other musical instruments" part of the post?



carry on.
#16
Quote by monwobobbo
electric guitars are cheaper than say a Harp because they can be mass produced. when was the last time you saw a video tour of a huge harp factory on you tube? when you get right down to it they aren't all that sophisticated either. also it seems that the amp is never included as part of the equation. once you add in a good amp then the cost goes up and can approach some of the acoustic instruments mentioned. add a $3000 Mesa amp to that $4000 LP and it's starting to get up there. oh wait need a few high quality fx damn there goes the price again. not really cheaper if you think about it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mesa, but it's not hard to make due with cheaper brands. And the beauty of it is, if you've already bought your amp, you can collect guitars for cheap. Guitar collecting is far more practical than harp or piano collecting.
#17
Quote by gregs1020
mono, really? youtube? there is a harp mfg right here in Chicago, been there. irl.


stupid post is stupid bra.

who said i think that gibson is the most expensive guitar?

i said, "quality pro level instrument".



re-read for better accuracy next time.

my gibson wasn't my most expensive guitar anyway.


not saying there aren't harp makers obviously there are. guessing that it only employs a small number of people and there is a great deal of hand work involved. i'm also guessing they aren't churning out hundreds of harps a day. probably was a cool place to tour though.

just curious on how your lady got into harp playing?
#18
Quote by gregs1020
stupid post is stupid bra.

who said i think that gibson is the most expensive guitar?

i said, "quality pro level instrument".



re-read for better accuracy next time.

my gibson wasn't my most expensive guitar anyway.

Then I apologise I read the title, judged it to be stupid, then skimmed through the rest to see what a few others said
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#19
Anyways > yeah, as a general rule ANY decent manufacturer can deliver top of the line products as long as they put enough time and effort into it. And yes, the more time that instrument spends in the custon shop, the more it's gonna cost. But the fact that those guitars you mention are custom shop Gibsons (which surprises me 'cos most of those things 'll cost ya AT LEAST $1200 bucks and it's unusual to encounter 2nd hand models selling for half that price because, hey, they're Gibsons. Everyone wants one of those) doesn't mean they're the best sh*t you can find out there

So yeah, it's cool that Gibson offers guitars at various price levels -even tho those 2nd hand guitars you mentioned really don't have anything to do with their standard retail prices-, but a standard €700 Gibson SG (which I guess is about the cheapest guitar they offer, could be $600 or something) isn't necessarily better than a top of the line Epiphone, which is kinda like their "Squier". So in a way they're really not that special, because brands like Fender, Ibanez or even Yamaha for that matter carry a vast amount of guitars within a whole bunch of price levels

Now I'm not really an expert on vintage Gibsons so you won't hear me saying Gibson has greatly lowered its manufacturing standards during the last couple of decades... still, I'd say they're a wee bit overpriced > to me brands like MusicMan or Godin offer better quality for the buck: I'll take a €1000 MM over a €1500 Fender any day

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#20
Quote by W4RP1G
Don't get me wrong, I love Mesa, but it's not hard to make due with cheaper brands. And the beauty of it is, if you've already bought your amp, you can collect guitars for cheap. Guitar collecting is far more practical than harp or piano collecting.


not the point in this thread. i have a Valveking myself so yeah you can get by cheaper. you can also buy cheap saxaphones , pianos and violins ( harp might be a bit tough)

since greg was trying to point out that we electric guitar players have it cheap compared to other instrument players on the high end i just thought i'd go with that idea and show that it isn't as cheap as it seems. makes for an interesting discussion.
#21
i mentioned used guitars because many musicians buy used gear. i'm one of them. i don't own one electric guitar that was purchased by me "new".

i do own a new acoustic, because i had a store credit i had to use up. otherwise i'd of bought used.


mono - she always liked the sound of harps, a church we've gone to has one. the thing sounds amazing.
#23
Electric guitars are relativly simple compared to some other musical instruments.

For the most part Gibson guitars are made on an assembly line vs a professional grade instrument which still need the aid of skilled craftsmen to fashion.

Many of the moving parts on a pro grade instrument are machined parts, not the cheaper stamped or cast found on guitars.

Then there is economics 101, the more you can produce and sell, the less the production costs will be. It's pretty safe to assume that Gibson makes at least a hundred guitars to each Conn french horn made.
I'm the only player to be sponsered by 7 guitar companies not to use their products.
#24
Quote by gregs1020
i mentioned used guitars because many musicians buy used gear. i'm one of them. i don't own one electric guitar that was purchased by me "new".

i do own a new acoustic, because i had a store credit i had to use up. otherwise i'd of bought used.


mono - she always liked the sound of harps, a church we've gone to has one. the thing sounds amazing.


very cool. there are a few harp players in town as we have a world famous classical music school here (Eastman School of Music). we also have music stores that deal in rather expensive classical instruments and i've always been shocked by what some of those people pay for their instruments. there is a guitar shop near the school which deals in mainly jazz guitars and some of those are very pricey. guess i' stick with my strats and be happy (but i'm still gonna bitch about paying to much it's in my blood to do so )
#25
My tenor http://usa.antiguawinds.com/productDetail.aspx?productId=32
cost me 2,300. It should last me the rest of my life. That what I should expect when I spend more than 500$ on an instrument. Now my 40 dollar music now flute I got? If I treat it right It should last me longer than a year.

Instruments are more than hunks of wood and metal. violinists often spend >million dollars on their instrument. I guess what i'm saying is, the relationship you develop with your instrument should be deeper than price.

****. Ive gone and bored all you guitarists :P don't know shiot about the philosophy of playing
#26
Quote by shwilly
Anyways > yeah, as a general rule ANY decent manufacturer can deliver top of the line products as long as they put enough time and effort into it. And yes, the more time that instrument spends in the custon shop, the more it's gonna cost. But the fact that those guitars you mention are custom shop Gibsons (which surprises me 'cos most of those things 'll cost ya AT LEAST $1200 bucks and it's unusual to encounter 2nd hand models selling for half that price because, hey, they're Gibsons. Everyone wants one of those) doesn't mean they're the best sh*t you can find out there

So yeah, it's cool that Gibson offers guitars at various price levels -even tho those 2nd hand guitars you mentioned really don't have anything to do with their standard retail prices-, but a standard €700 Gibson SG (which I guess is about the cheapest guitar they offer, could be $600 or something) isn't necessarily better than a top of the line Epiphone, which is kinda like their "Squier". So in a way they're really not that special, because brands like Fender, Ibanez or even Yamaha for that matter carry a vast amount of guitars within a whole bunch of price levels

Now I'm not really an expert on vintage Gibsons so you won't hear me saying Gibson has greatly lowered its manufacturing standards during the last couple of decades... still, I'd say they're a wee bit overpriced > to me brands like MusicMan or Godin offer better quality for the buck: I'll take a €1000 MM over a €1500 Fender any day

EBMMs are nice, I'll second that, as are Suhr. Better than an American Standard, but here in the states, and American standard is around $900(I'm guessing that's somewhere around 600-700 Euros?) so they are a hell of a deal.

I've played some very nice Epis. But my Les Paul Studio is better, build-wise, than any Epi or any Korean/Chinese guitar I've ever touched. Gibson might use more pieces for the body, and they don't use binding, and all the frills, but the Studio line is rock solid, imo. If I was told I could keep an Epi or Studio the rest of my life, I'd pick the studio. I'm definitely not a Gibson fanboy if that's what you're thinking, I own many different guitars, and many Ibanez.

Quote by monwobobbo
not the point in this thread. i have a Valveking myself so yeah you can get by cheaper. you can also buy cheap saxaphones , pianos and violins ( harp might be a bit tough)

since greg was trying to point out that we electric guitar players have it cheap compared to other instrument players on the high end i just thought i'd go with that idea and show that it isn't as cheap as it seems. makes for an interesting discussion.

Ok, gotcha. I guess the amp cost would be factored in too when comparing to other instruments.
#27
Quote by coolstoryangus
got any vids greg?

of your woman

playing the harp

i should have been more clear. she doesn't know how to play one. we heard one at a church and she got all "i wanna do it". i looked up the price of a decent one because i don't believe in buying meh gear if she is serious. (see her son's gibson LP studio for example, sure it was $350 whatever, i'm a machine!)

i think i have her dialed towards guitar though now, especially since the likes the acoustic i grabbed, which sounds amazing i won't lie.
#28
saxophones are definatley way more expensive. entry level ones are like around 1k.
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#29
Quote by W4RP1G
I was watching an interview with the Paul Reed Smith yesterday, the one posted in the "21 rules" thread. He said bassists and drummers expect to pay a lot for good instruments, but guitarists want everything cheaper. I thought that was pretty funny because it's true.

I thought about the exact same thing!

And perhaps guitarists want to pay less for a guitar than for a violin because we'll buy 10 guitars + 20 amps + 100 effects + cables and other rubbish
#30
Both the links posted were to guitars that were listed in the OP, my statement still stands that I don't see anything really special about those 2 guitars. A Melody Maker and a LP Jr. are comparable to a large number of guitars in the $400 to $800 range.

I was merely stating that theres really nothing special about Gibsons pricing, to which my point still stands.
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#31
Quote by Vypor
Both the links posted were to guitars that were listed in the OP, my statement still stands that I don't see anything really special about those 2 guitars. A Melody Maker and a LP Jr. are comparable to a large number of guitars in the $400 to $800 range.

I was merely stating that theres really nothing special about Gibsons pricing, to which my point still stands.

can you list that large number of made in america, hand finished, pro level instruments?

i wouldn't classify that melody maker as one, it's basically crap.

the jr I posted however, is quite nice. there are plenty of gigging musician and recording artists that use Gibson USA LP Jrs.

melody makers? not really getting too many popping into mind.

#32
Quote by gregs1020
I told her i'd find her a nice old ES-125 and I'd give her "lessons".


Hey gregs, you wanna buy me a nice old ES-125 and give me lessons?

Well, I read the 1st page and am too lazy to see if the discussion went elsewhere so...

Piano...I've been playing piano (well, keyboard) longer than guitar and buying an actual piano is pretty expensive for a good one, takes up too much space and is loud.

Harp...its pretty big

Sax.......its a piece of metal you blow through???

The fact that guitar is one of the most popular instruments out there because it is featured in alot of genres make it appealing to music-lovers. More demand = more supply. More supply = cheaper prices. Cheaper prices = people wanting to upgrade guitars quickly. People wanting to upgrade guitars quickly = many used guitars. Many used guitars = happy you and me
Quote by FEngHLyan

She will join the prom.

She insists to wear this lights.

I don't think so.

How can I persuade her?
#33
Quote by Vypor
Well, actually quality Gibson's do cost anywhere from $1000 to $4000 at the Gibson custom shops. I don't know of any $600 Gibsons, but I imagine they are comparable to other guitars in the $400 - $800 range. I myself do indeed love Gibson's, but I think your exaggerating their "adequate" prices just a bit.


This entirely.

A really good, high quality, Gibson Les Paul costs you upwards of $3,000. You can find Studio models for about half the price, but they're usually using materials that aren't, again, as high of quality. :P
#34
Quote by Imglidinhere
This entirely.

A really good, high quality, Gibson Les Paul costs you upwards of $3,000. You can find Studio models for about half the price, but they're usually using materials that aren't, again, as high of quality. :P

i've purchased 3 Gibson Les Paul Standards. All were good, high quality guitars. the most i paid for one is $1650 after local taxes (9.8% where i live).



new, here, a traditional or standard can be had for under $2200 or $2600 respectively.

you are wrong.
#35
This has got to be the first time Ive heard someone saying that Gibsons are cheap. Most of the time ppl complain that their too expensive, but I guess a piano or a harp is more complex and harder to make, thats prolly why they cost more.


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#36
What I feel you're getting at gregs is that "classical" instruments are ~5x more expensive than guitars, comparing range to range. I played trumpet from grade 7 til I graduated high school, and only after I graduated did my mom tell me how much it cost her; almost $2,000, or something rediculous like that. I eventually hated the damn thing, but for that price, and not taking band class, I coud have gotten a beautiful custom shop Carvin or Warmoth guitar or something like that. HOWEVER, I wouldnt have the musical knowledge I have now.
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#37
Most 'guitarists' only bitch about the costs of things because so many of them are <21, have at best a part-time job and are still relying on mommy and daddy for most things. A Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul seems a lifetime away when you're 15. A Les Paul Standard looks like something you'll only afford once you have a record deal. A Les Paul Studio looks like something you could maybe afford in a couple of years if you save up all your money and your parents give you a little extra for your birthday.

Then you grow up and get a full time job and find out you could afford to buy a new Studio every damn month if you wanted to. It takes me just about two weeks to comfortably buy a new Epiphone, a month to buy something like a Studio or a MIA Fender, I could comfortably buy a Custom Shop instrument once a year without coming close to running into money trouble. That's the beauty of growing up and having a job.

The people that whine do have a ****ed up sense of perspective, but it's not because they don't realise how cheap guitar is compared to most other instruments. It's just because they're mostly young and shit's more expensive when you're a student.
#38
Quote by JKHC
Hey gregs, you wanna buy me a nice old ES-125 and give me lessons?

Well, I read the 1st page and am too lazy to see if the discussion went elsewhere so...

Piano...I've been playing piano (well, keyboard) longer than guitar and buying an actual piano is pretty expensive for a good one, takes up too much space and is loud.

Harp...its pretty big

Sax.......its a piece of metal you blow through???

The fact that guitar is one of the most popular instruments out there because it is featured in alot of genres make it appealing to music-lovers. More demand = more supply. More supply = cheaper prices. Cheaper prices = people wanting to upgrade guitars quickly. People wanting to upgrade guitars quickly = many used guitars. Many used guitars = happy you and me

i'm not even sure i want to buy her one.

agreed on the rest of your post.
#39
Quote by grohl1987
Most 'guitarists' only bitch about the costs of things because so many of them are <21, have at best a part-time job and are still relying on mommy and daddy for most things. A Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul seems a lifetime away when you're 15. A Les Paul Standard looks like something you'll only afford once you have a record deal. A Les Paul Studio looks like something you could maybe afford in a couple of years if you save up all your money and your parents give you a little extra for your birthday.

Then you grow up and get a full time job and find out you could afford to buy a new Studio every damn month if you wanted to. It takes me just about two weeks to comfortably buy a new Epiphone, a month to buy something like a Studio or a MIA Fender, I could comfortably buy a Custom Shop instrument once a year without coming close to running into money trouble. That's the beauty of growing up and having a job.

The people that whine do have a ****ed up sense of perspective, but it's not because they don't realise how cheap guitar is compared to most other instruments. It's just because they're mostly young and shit's more expensive when you're a student.


big time +1

having a successful, well paying career, one can afford the finer things in life. Suddenly things aren't as expensive as you once thought
My Gear
Guitars:
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-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul (Seymour Duncan Pegasus and Sentinent)
-Ibanez S470 (Dimarzio D-sonic and Humbucker from Hell)
-PRS SE Custom (Guitarforce Black Diamond and Lord of the Blues)

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
EVH 5150III EL-34 50w
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
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Ibanez DE7 Delay
Electro-Harmonix Power Booster
Fender PT100 Pedal Tuner

Strings:
Ernie Ball Skinny Top/Heavy Bottom 10-52
#40
Well whats the ratio of guitar players to harp players?

Maybe the harp luthiers wouldn't make any money considering they sell 3 harps a year.
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