#1
i don't call myself a pure jazzer in the sense,but alot of my style is based on jazz....it just seems like the so called"general public"is either too inept or don't understand this artform...jazz is and will always be a"musicians"type of artform... is it just that it is too cerebral in a sense to appeal to a general audience?i've never met a jazz musician who didn't dedicate his life towards learning and perfecting his craft...the general audience seems not to understand that
#2
I'm learning to be a jazz musician, it's a shame that I only fell in love with this beautiful artform earlier this year - I wish I discovered it long before...now that I'm 16 (and busy with studying like mad to make it into a good university to study what I want to study - I honestly cannot tolerate studying what I don't enjoy any longer), I've been forced to partially stop my musical development.

And jazz is a form of art music as opposed to classical or folk, so yes, it opposes pop (popular...ie. rock, dance, pop, etc) music, hence why it's not so popular with the general public. But remember, a lot of musicians and bands of pop music do incorporate jazz into their music...well most of those musicians eventually stray away from the pop commonalities (hence their music becomes something like art rock, or jazz rock, post-rock, progressive rock, etc...).

My main jazz influences aren't guitarists (Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Tortoise the band, Buddy Rich, Nujabes and Stanley Clarke)
#3
Quote by grant878
i don't call myself a pure jazzer in the sense,but alot of my style is based on jazz....it just seems like the so called"general public"is either too inept or don't understand this artform...jazz is and will always be a"musicians"type of artform... is it just that it is too cerebral in a sense to appeal to a general audience?i've never met a jazz musician who didn't dedicate his life towards learning and perfecting his craft...the general audience seems not to understand that


with all due respect, that's a crock of shit.

jazz musicians like to blame audiences when the blame lies solely on their shoulders. know your history, dude. paul gonsalves played a 27-chorus solo that almost started a riot in the mid-50s when duke ellington's style of music was considered dead. and it kick started his career. why?

because people are inclined to like jazz. IF it's done right. people will always be attracted to swing because we live and breathe it. it's inside us. don't believe me?

listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFn8Cgcx8g


now this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5O2W3DenQ

swing isn't just the heartbeat of jazz; it's the heartbeat of humanity.

if people don't like you, you're not swinging. the reason jazz has gotten so bad is that people (mostly musicians and as a result the public) believe it's a music that esoteric and for a small group of people. and because people mistakenly believe (as a result of bebop and jazz education) that jazz is about complex harmony and weird scales.

sure, that stuff is in there. but jazz is about the RHYTHM. it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. that's the truth. if you go out and swing your ass off, people are gonna eat that shit up. it's about feel. not cerebral. it's from the heart. literally.

it's easy to play jazz and be pissed and pretentious. it's also FAR easier to just play a bunch of bullmess diminished whole tone licks than it is to play something with some good feel and good sense. the only reason people don't come out to see jazz is so many of the musicians share your shitty attitude and perspective.

again, all due respect (i really mean that). but that's how i feel in no uncertain terms.
#DTWD
Last edited by primusfan at Oct 8, 2011,
#4
Quote by primusfan
with all due respect, that's a crock of shit.

jazz musicians like to blame audiences when the blame lies solely on their shoulders. know your history, dude. paul gonsalves played a 27-chorus solo that almost started a riot in the mid-50s when duke ellington's style of music was considered dead. and it kick started his career. why?

because people are inclined to like jazz. IF it's done right. people will always be attracted to swing because we live and breathe it. it's inside us. don't believe me?

listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFn8Cgcx8g


now this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5O2W3DenQ

swing isn't just the heartbeat of jazz; it's the heartbeat of humanity.

if people don't like you, you're not swinging. the reason jazz has gotten so bad is that people (mostly musicians and as a result the public) believe it's a music that esoteric and for a small group of people. and because people mistakenly believe (as a result of bebop and jazz education) that jazz is about complex harmony and weird scales.

sure, that stuff is in there. but jazz is about the RHYTHM. it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. that's the truth. if you go out and swing your ass off, people are gonna eat that shit up. it's about feel. not cerebral. it's from the heart. literally.

it's easy to play jazz and be pissed and pretentious. it's also FAR easier to just play a bunch of bullmess diminished whole tone licks than it is to play something with some good feel and good sense. the only reason people don't come out to see jazz is so many of the musicians share your shitty attitude and perspective.

again, all due respect (i really mean that). but that's how i feel in no uncertain terms.

You are correct about people probably liking it but, people are not really seeking it out that much. A lot of top40 radio listeners are a lost cause straight off the bat for instance, they aren't looking to listen to new music very much so jazz and everything else is dead to them, and that's a lot of the 'popular music bracket'.

Most people fall into their niches, rock music is probably gonna be popular for a while but a lot of the arguments here could apply to blues music too, it's just people are not exposed to that music much so they never get into it that much.

I don't really like that much jazz, there is jazz out there that i enjoy but there's also a lot i dislike that you probably would like immensely, or there's jazz i'll think is 'alright but i don't wanna listen to it all that often'. Although, if most people shared my view then jazz would be significantly popular than it is.
#5
Quote by grant878
i don't call myself a pure jazzer in the sense,but alot of my style is based on jazz....it just seems like the so called"general public"is either too inept or don't understand this artform...jazz is and will always be a"musicians"type of artform... is it just that it is too cerebral in a sense to appeal to a general audience?i've never met a jazz musician who didn't dedicate his life towards learning and perfecting his craft...the general audience seems not to understand that


what are you trying to say? that anybody who doesn't appreciate 'jazz' is a moron?

get a life.
I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.
- Jimi Hendrix
#6
We've got two ends of the extreme right now. Jazz has been great because it has both accessible and intangible elements. Contemporary jazz, despite being less easy to grasp, can be actually pretty awesome if you understand it. Fault arguably lies with both the musician (who lately have been playing in a less accessible manner) and listeners (who oftentimes don't give it a fair chance and judge it without a basis), but if this is how today's cats want to play, that's how it is. You can't blame them for playing what they feel.

And sometimes, jazz just isn't the listener's thing. It happens.
#7
I'm a learning Jazz musician.

But I know that Jazz isn't under-appreciated.
Things like various forms of Bop and Free Jazz definitely are, but you have things like Frank Sinatra (arguably not Jazz but closely tied) and the famous Jazz singers like Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Simone, etc, which are still quite popular (hell, my covers band does the Muse version of "Feelin' Good", everyone who doesn't realise it's a Muse cover is always like "You should do more of the jazzy stuff", and these are just general pub goers).

Sure it's not exactly mainstream stuff (well, people like Norah Jones and Michael Buble are fairly jazzy and quite mainstream) but if you play the more "listenable" jazz to the right crowd and people will love it.

Though as Bebop is probably my favourite kind of Jazz it is a bit disheartening that not as many people will dig that stuff.