#1
This evening I'm writing a lesson/exercise regime for bassists (partly guitar pro, partly text) on the practical application of modes/scales/arpeggios.
1 Does this sound useful?
2 If I upload it at some point tomorrow will you tell me when I'm waffling and when I'm not covering enough?
3 What format do you want it in? Currently its a .txt with a .gp5, I could possibly convert the .gp5 file to txt based TAB but that is something I have never done before.

This is my first lesson I've done on the internet, so I guess I'm looking for pointers.
Cheers guys
'If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.' Albert Einstein
#2
Definitely sounds useful, if that .txt is meant to explain each exercise maybe you could upload it to UG's lessons section in parts?

Not sure about 2, I don't know this stuff perfectly so I couldn't be sure.
Professional lurker since 2009.
#3
I don't know about GP, but with Tuxguitar and PowerTab, you can go to file -> export -> ASCII (or something similar), and that'll be a simple text format, so you should be able to do it all in GP and post it both ways. And I'll check it out as well, I'm not sure how helpful anything I have to say on it will be, but as long as you're not giving advice that's detrimental, there's no harm in it.
#4
I've tried it on Guitar Pro 5 and I just get an error message; something along the lines of 'erruer de verification d'entendue'.
For now, here's a zip containing a .rtf, .pdf, .gp5, .gp4, and .txt
Eventually I might post it under the lessons tab but only once i'm confident its useable and useful... you guys be my guinea pigs
If this one goes down well I've planned a couple more on the practical application of scales and arpeggios, as well as a library of scales, arpeggios, and other exercises to practice

cheers
Attachments:
Modes.zip
'If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.' Albert Einstein
#5
One thing that I've noticed right away, is that you are saying to use extended fingering. Now, I personally don't think it is a good idea teaching someone who has yet to learn the modes, to do extended fingering.
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#6
what do you mean by extended fingering?
People learn things in different orders... I learnt all my theory before I could even play bass, some people the other way round. I think a lot of people know vaguely about modes but I wanted to explain them in a newer and more interesting way
#7
You're asking them to do 5 fret stretches in one position look at the fretting you have suggested for the first mode: 3 - 5 - 7. This probably isn't a good idea for beginners, and it's debatable for anyone full stop.
Current Gear:

Warwick Thumb BO 4
Musicman "StatusRay" Stingray 4 - Carbon Fibre Neck
Musicman Stingray 5 HH
Sadowsky MV4 Jazz

Markbass LittleMark II
AccuGroove Tri12l
Sansamp VT Bass
Line6 BassPodXT Live

CHECK OUT MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
#8
I have pretty small hands - almost 6" (15cm) from tip of forefinger to tip of little finger, with my hand outstretched - and with some long term practice I don't really struggle with a 5 fret stretch. For practicalities sake I don't deny that in some situations a 3 - 5 - (string up) 2 pattern would be a much easier way of fingering a three-tone run, but I think that it is important to be able to play the same notes in a few different ways; so you aren't stuck in a rut of having to switch from set position to set position.
Who do you mean by 'them'? If you mean beginners, then I guess I should point out that this lesson isn't just for beginners. I was lucky enough to have been taught a fair bit of music theory at a very early age; however most of the bassists and guitarists I know and play with have learnt to play quite proficiently without really understanding much theory or any of the terminology and reasoning behind what they are playing.
I'd planned this little mini-lesson not as a beginner's walkthrough to modes, but a method of recapping or explaining modes in an analytical but playing-related way. Something suitable for anyone who could get their hands around a simple two-octave scale.
I don't want to come across as being defensive or self-righteous in any way, but I didn't specify what skill level of player these lessons were aimed at. In fact, I kind of disagree with the concept of skill levels really: Some people, as I've already explained, can play with good technique very proficiently, but have little or no knowledge of music theory; whereas others (like me) have a very solid knowledge of music theory, but lack in practical ability.
Again with regard to the 5 fret stretch debate I think that if it hurts, don't do it. I've been taught this way of playing scales (amongst others) for all the time I've been playing bass and even with pretty small haven't *yet* experienced any muscle/joint problems.
#9
Jake, you say:

Quote by Jake's pdf
It is worth noting that tabbed in this way, all of these modes comprise of 5 sets of 3-note patterns. Memorising these patterns can really help you to skip around the fretboard, making it just as easy to move horizontally up and down the neck as it is to move vertically up and down the strings.
The three patterns are as follows:
A. Tone - Tone - Tone
B. Tone - Semitone - Tone
C. Tone - Tone - Semitone


You talk about 3-note patterns, but then give 3 intervals which implies 4-note patterns.


I wonder if you meant something like this, which is for G major:


  1 1 3 4 1 1 3  4   1 1 2  4  1  1  2  4    2
|------------------|-----------9-11-12-14-|-12----|
|------------------|-7-9-10-12------------|-------|
|---------5-7-9-10-|----------------------|-------|
|-3-5-7-8----------|----------------------|-------| 


Where the first pattern (on the E string) is T-T-S
Same again on the A-string
On the D and G strings, it's T-S-T

But that would give CCBB for the major scale (Ionion mode), which isn't what you wrote. So it's obvious you meant something different, but I don't know what.


I like the order in which the modes are given. And it seems a good idea to learn them all starting from the same note -- that way it's easier to see the difference between modes.

I was surprised you didn't give a 'formula' for each mode. I'm thinking of the one where Major is simply 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 and that gives a reference for all the other intervals needed for the other modes.

Lydian : 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7
Ionian: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
Mixolydian: 1-2-3-4-5-6-b7
Dorian: 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7
Aolian: 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Phrygian: 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Locrian: 1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7


If you tell people to simply count the notes as they play them, it tends to become obvious what's happening. Especially if they start from 1 again, when they get to the octave.
Last edited by QPC_Sam at Oct 16, 2011,
#10
Ah right, by Tone - Tone - Tone I meant Note (up a tone) Note (up a tone) Note.
I definitely meant 3 note patterns as in the tab.

As you can probably tell I've never written a lesson before and I'm finding it difficult...

These patterns that become obvious when you play with modes really helped me get my head around them - I explained this stuff to a couple of guitarist friends and they said it had helped too. I guess putting things down in writing is the hard part!
Thanks guys x
'If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.' Albert Einstein
#11
I see what you mean now.
It might be better to name the patterns after what your hand is doing/which finger you use. eg:

long: pattern made by frets 3, 5, 7
middle: pattern made by frets 3, 4, 6
ring: pattern made by frets 3, 5, 6

So the lydian becomes: L M M R R, but you have to watch where your first finger begins the patterns.

I think those lables would be easier to read and then apply.

Also, you should point out that you can use LMMRR to come back down the scale in 9th position. Obviously, you'll be reading LMMRR backwards as you go down, but it gives you the order of the patterns:

Lydian
  L     M     M       R     R              R        M      M       L
|-----------------|---4-6-7-9-11-12-11-|-9--------------------|---------------|
|-------------4-5-|-7------------------|---12-11-9------------|---------------|
|-------4-5-7-----|--------------------|-----------12-10-9----|---------------|
|-3-5-7-----------|--------------------|-------------------12-|-10-9-7-5-3----|


In fact, you can put the shifts in other places. And extend the scale, as long as you keep track of when you restart LMMRR and how far up the pattern you go.

*(first finger shift at end of bar 3, ready to play the long pattern starting on G at the 10th fret, A-string)

Extended Lydian
  L     M     M         R       R 
|------------------|------------9-11-12-11-|
|------------------|----9-11-12------------|
|-------4-5-7-9-10-|-12--------------------|
|-3-5-7------------|-----------------------|


    R       M       L          M         M
|-9--------------------|----------------11-12-14-|
|---12-11-9------------|-------11-12-14----------|
|-----------12-10-9-10-|-12-14-------------------|
|----------------------|-------------------------|


  R              M          M        L
|-16-18-19-18-16----------|---------------------------|
|----------------19-17-16-|---------------------------|
|-------------------------|-19-17-16------------------|
|-------------------------|----------19-17-15-(15)----| 


Okay, that might not make sense on first reading....
I've added LMR above the tab to indicate which pattern is being used. Note that the full LMMRR isn't used when starting from the G at the 10th fret a-string.

Probably trying it out a few times will make that clear enough. If not, then I need help too!
Last edited by QPC_Sam at Oct 16, 2011,
#12
Here's the last tab turned into a triplet exercise:

 Triplet exercise
  |-3-| |-3-| |-3-| |-3-|   |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|
  E E E E E E E E E E E E   E  E  E E  E  E E  E  E E  E  E
|-------------------------|---------------------------------|
|-------------------------|-----------------9-11-12-9-11-12-|
|-------------4-5-7-4-5-7-|-9-10-12-9-10-12-----------------|
|-3-5-7-3-5-7-------------|---------------------------------|


  |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|   |--3--| |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|
  E  E  E E  E  E E  E  E E  E  E   E  E  E E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E
|-9-11-12-9-11-12-----------------|-----------------------------------|
|-----------------9-11-12-9-11-12-|-----------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|-9-10-12-9-10-12-10-12-14-10-12-14-|
|---------------------------------|-----------------------------------|


   |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|    |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|
   E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E    E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E
|-------------------11-12-14-11-12-14-|-16-18-19-16-18-19-------------------|
|-11-12-14-11-12-14-------------------|-------------------16-17-19-16-17-19-|
|-------------------------------------|-------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------|-------------------------------------|


   |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|
   E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E  E    W
|-------------------------------------|-------*|
|-------------------------------------|-------*|
|-16-17-19-16-17-19-------------------|-------*|
|-------------------15-17-19-15-17-19-|-15----*| 
#13
my old bass teacher called the patterns by these names:
long = sandwich
middle = roll
ring = cake (or something cake related)

he was a very fat guy and didn't help me remember them at all well :L

thanks sam for explaining the method I wanted to share in a much more eloquent way!
#14
Your welcome,
I'm finding the method useful. It applies what I already know in one position to help me shift position. It seems to give quicker access to the correct notes because I'm already seeing these new shapes first and then seeing how they fit into the shapes I've known longer. You shift, and your hand does what it was going to do in the old position. And you can shift on any string.

Plus one shift gives you two octaves, instead of the shift on every string I gave in my first post.