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#1
I want to get a Interface. I write mostly instrumentals, so having just a guitar(1/4 input) jack would be fine, but I would also want to be able to record with a mic if needed(either vocals or acoustic).

What is a good interface with a 1/4" jack?
What interface can do both instrument and vocal?


Also when I get one how would I get an Amp tone?

(also cheap is good)
I play guitar.
#2
The Line 6 UX1 allows you to input a 1/4" instrument, as well as a dynamic mic into it. You can't run a condenser mic off of the UX1 though, as the XLR input doesn't have phantom power. The M-Audio Fast Track does the same, but also has phantom power, for the same price.

Alternatively, the Fast Track Pro and Line 6 UX2 are also a decent, more expensive solution, however, they have one more input mic, with phantom power on both.
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#3
Got a Fast Track Pro and it's great. Got it only for 149 USD.
Can input both guitar and microphone just fine, also has phantom power.

I had a Line6 POD GX but it broke in under a year for no reason, so I personally advise not to get that.
#4
presonus audiobox
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#5
Quote by Eggmond
presonus audiobox


does that have 1/4inch jacks?

also I might go with the M-Audio Fast Track or Fast Track Pro, since I can get them on ebay cheaper, and they both have the phantom power thing?
I play guitar.
Last edited by TheWho2 at Oct 14, 2011,
#6
DO NOT get the fast track. I have it and the preamps are garbage. I actually bought a personus preamp and it really improved my tone.

The audiobox works with 1/4 jack's, you plus it into the center or the XLR, it's a hybrid plug.

Trust me, get the audio box.
Last edited by Gundamnitpete at Oct 14, 2011,
#7
Quote by TheWho2
does that have 1/4inch jacks?

also I might go with the M-Audio Fast Track or Fast Track Pro, since I can get them on ebay cheaper, and they both have the phantom power thing?


it has the neutrik ones that take 1/4inch and XLRs. in my experience the audiobox has better preamps than the fast track although i havent tried the fast track pro
ಠ_ಠ
<|>
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#9
The Presonus might have better preamps, but M-Audio has stood behind their Fast Track series for a long time now. Presonus usually dumps their previous ranges when a new one is released and leaves everyone in the dark.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#12
Quote by FireHawk
Eh there are better things, but it's still respectable as is the Line 6 UX2


the is UX2 better than the Fast Track Pro?
I play guitar.
#14
Get an RME Babyface.
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#15
It's also worth looking into buying a multitracker to use as your DAW instead of trying to get an interface for your PC. They can be purchased used for a reasonable cost and do everything you can do with a PC/interface/software combination, but are often easier to get to grips with and as they are a fully integrated unit you aren't reliant on the PC for anything.
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#16
Quote by GaryBillington
It's also worth looking into buying a multitracker to use as your DAW instead of trying to get an interface for your PC. They can be purchased used for a reasonable cost and do everything you can do with a PC/interface/software combination, but are often easier to get to grips with and as they are a fully integrated unit you aren't reliant on the PC for anything.


A multitracker can be quite a good compromise, since it's easy to start using straight out of the box and usually cheap (if purchased used), but it can't do everything you can do with a computer solution. It can do all the basic things you need though.
Bubonic Studio
Turning death & mayhem into audio
#17
Quote by enghell
A multitracker can be quite a good compromise, since it's easy to start using straight out of the box and usually cheap (if purchased used), but it can't do everything you can do with a computer solution. It can do all the basic things you need though.

Yes it can. I've had this discussion a few times, and everything which has been said that software provides as an extra has also been available on multitrackers, usually as standard functionality even on a reasonably basic one.

Aside from the added practical advantages of a multitracker over a software/PC/interface combination or the potential for unlimited tracks using software, the only difference is preference.
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Last edited by GaryBillington at Oct 15, 2011,
#18
Quote by GaryBillington
Yes it can. I've had this discussion a few times, and everything which has been said that software provides as an extra has also been available on multitrackers, usually as standard functionality even on a reasonably basic one.

Aside from the added practical advantages of a multitracker over a software/PC/interface combination or the potential for unlimited tracks using software, the only difference is preference.

OK, I'll give you this...

A multitracker is a good and easy way of recording for example at your rehearsal place. And the ease of just having to pretty much press record instead of the problems a computer/interface/software and the tweaking that needs to be done, sure is great. And it is a bit cheaper than a good computer+software+interface, (but probably since I don't think that many people buy multitrackers anymore.)

After that the advantage goes to the computer-based DAW.

After you've set up your system, all the practical advantages except one is on the computer/interface/software's side, with basically unlimited number of and lengths of tracks, nearly unlimited possibilities of editing, possibilities of adding whatever type of effects that is available and doing that without having to go through menus to get to a function and with the ease of having nearly everything visual at once.

And it doesn't matter what size you have on your computer-screen, it'll still be bigger and better than the one on any multitracker. I know there are many functions on a multitracker today, even pretty advanced things like timestretching, but you still can't do all of the things on one multitracker as you can do on one computer-based DAW, and you can't compare the visibility and ease of use that you have on a computer-based DAW, especially after you've pressed stop and it's time for editing and mixing. The only advantage on the multitracker is the ease of use, out of the box in one piece of equipment which also makes it easier if you want to be mobile. But at the same time, if one piece fails or if you want to upgrade, everything kinda fails on the multitracker, but you can easily replace and/or upgrade anything on the computer-based setup.

Everyone I know that have previously used a multitracker, have left them for some type of more professional approach with a computer-based DAW and they won't go back. Myself I've used multitrackers from the 4-channel Fostex X-15 back in the 80's (ahh, nostalgia) to newer ones from Korg and Roland. But even trying a modern one after been using Cubase for 10+ years, makes me feel trapped and a bit old fashioned, and it also makes me wonder why anyone would use it, when there's so much better things to get these days...
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#19
I think this is what you're looking for:

http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/usb-microphones/gtrack/



Guitar interface and a half-decent condenser mic all built into a single USB mic. It's cheap, simple and sounds good.


Not as flexible as a proper interface in the long term, when it comes to mics, but if you want to knock out good-quality demos as cheaply and easily as possible it's great.
#20
If you prefer spending all your time using a PC, that's fine. Like I said (and like I've said in several other threads) it's all down to preference.

Personally I prefer being able to spend my time actually playing my guitar rather than sitting at the computer trying to make myself sound good.

I will just respond to a couple of your comments:
you still can't do all of the things on one multitracker as you can do on one computer-based DAW

Yes you can. As I said before, I've had this conversation several times and every single thing that has been suggested as a function of software that multitrackers don't provide has been incorrect.

Multitrackers have evolved just as much over the years as software has. Essentially multitrackers these days are just a computer which is purpose built for recording and have everything you need available in a menu system specifically designed for the job you are doing. Yes, it's a smaller screen than on a PC, but it's usually a well designed screen which does everything it needs to efficiently.

I don't think that many people buy multitrackers anymore

This is an extremely wrong assumption. There are loads of people on this site who use them, they just don't need to post in the recording forum asking for help because they bought equipment which is user friendly enough to be used without the help of an internet forum. I've spoken to several of them in other forums after finding them by accident when discussing unrelated subjects.

Also, in real life I know a few other people who have home recording setups. It's a 50-50 split between software and multitrackers, and I've been known to help out the people who use software because they couldn't figure out how to do something so they borrowed my kit.

I'll finish off with this point:
Each time I've changed my equipment I've investigated switching to software and each time I've decided it offered me no advantage, but would significantly reduce the time I spend with my guitars because of two things:
1 - the extra time I'd need to spend working recordings through the software
2 - the time it would take me to just get my computer set up in the right room to start with.

Like I said before, the only difference is preference.
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Last edited by GaryBillington at Oct 15, 2011,
#21
Quote by GaryBillington
Yes it can. I've had this discussion a few times, and everything which has been said that software provides as an extra has also been available on multitrackers, usually as standard functionality even on a reasonably basic one.

Aside from the added practical advantages of a multitracker over a software/PC/interface combination or the potential for unlimited tracks using software, the only difference is preference.

Again, you're forgetting about VST instuments/soft synths/virtual amp software!


Using a dedicated multitrack recorder, my current home recording technique would be worthless....

-I use VST amp sims (Amplitube 3 and some great freeware) for recording -guitar+bass, my proper gigging amps stay in the band trailer!
-I use a custom electric drum kit triggering Addictive Drums with a TriggerIO interface.
-I like to use a lot of virtual instruments for orchestration, drawing parts by hand on the piano roll (hammond organ, string sections, piano etc).

You can't do any of this on a hardware recorder. So I'd have to either set up and mic a drum kit (too big and loud for my modest loft studio) or buy a drum brain for my e-drums which would be a nasty, unrealistic sound compared to Addictive. I'd also have to invest in a POD, or else have my 100W tube amp mic'd up.
More hassle, for considerably inferior results!
#22
Quote by kyle62
Again, you're forgetting about VST instuments/soft synths/virtual amp software!

I'm not forgetting about it, this is merely one of the reasons it comes down to preference. I don't use VST instruments or synths, therefore this has no attraction for me whatsoever. I actually play my instruments and spend my time focusing on that rather than programming things into a PC.

As for the virtual amp part, all the multitrackers I've seen in the past 10 years have this included as part of the standard functionality. I've said it before and I guess I'll have to say it again - if you want to spend all your time finding that 5% difference that one software package may provide over another, then I agree this may be easier with software. However if you want to spend your time actually playing guitar, the virtual amps & cabs included in most multitrackers will be more than enough for most guitarists.

For someone who just wants to be able to record themselves at home, it's purely down to preference.

If someone wants to get into recording as a completely separate hobby, then yes of course software is the best option, but for someone who wants to keep their focus on guitar it may not be.
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#23
Lol how many times are we going to have this discussion? Depending on the type of music you do each has their benefits. After you get past your needs if your in the middle ground it's down to preference.

Personally I could never use a multi-track for the type of music I do. If I were in a normal rock or metal band and didn't know my DAW like the back of my hand, I'd consider it.

It's like digital vs. analogue recording debate. I would never consider recording to tape because I don't see any benefits of it, and you can't tell me one sounds better cause the majority of my favorite albums were not recorded to tape.
Or
It's like micing an amp or ampsiming. I know how to do both but I love the digitized sound and the ease of readjusting the EQ and effects on the fly to create a new sound instead of rerecording the whole thing.

In the end its all preference.

Sorry for any grammar errors as I typed this all from my iPhone.
#24
Quote by FireHawk
In the end its all preference.

Thank you!! That's all I ever say, but for some reason some people can't accept that others may not have the same preference as them and assume that their opinion is fact!!!
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#25
Quote by GaryBillington
I'm not forgetting about it, this is merely one of the reasons it comes down to preference. I don't use VST instruments or synths, therefore this has no attraction for me whatsoever. I actually play my instruments and spend my time focusing on that rather than programming things into a PC.

For someone who just wants to be able to record themselves at home, it's purely down to preference.

If someone wants to get into recording as a completely separate hobby, then yes of course software is the best option, but for someone who wants to keep their focus on guitar it may not be.

I completely appreciate your point. Even something as simple as a USB mic can be a pain in the arse at first - you arm a track for recording and there's no input, turns out the driver needs to be configured, or perhaps you haven't assigned the mic to an input bus first (Cubase I'm looking at you here)!


Thinking about it Gary, I think the reason your posts sometimes cause so much friction is simply because you're apporaching recording from the opposite side; a guitar player looking for 'musical sketchpad' to take down basic, raw versions of his songs with fuss. However, many here (myself included) have a serious interest in recording/production as an end in itself, so we focus on trying to achieve the best quality results for a given set of options. Neither approach is right or wrong, but very, very different.
#26
Quote by FireHawk
Sorry for any grammar errors as I typed this all from my iPhone.

Well played! My typing on an iPhone usually comes out lijke th8is"! I couldn't manage without Swype
#27
Quote by kyle62
Well played! My typing on an iPhone usually comes out lijke th8is"! I couldn't manage without Swype


I just looked at the Swype page without much research no idea how that works lol
#28
Quote by kyle62
Thinking about it Gary, I think the reason your posts sometimes cause so much friction is simply because you're apporaching recording from the opposite side; a guitar player looking for 'musical sketchpad' to take down basic, raw versions of his songs with fuss. However, many here (myself included) have a serious interest in recording/production as an end in itself, so we focus on trying to achieve the best quality results for a given set of options. Neither approach is right or wrong, but very, very different.

And thats my main issue with other people who post on here - you don't ask if the person wanting advice is like me or like you. As soon as I see a thread which looks like someone is wanting to get seriously into the recording side of things, I leave without posting. If I see someone asking simply "how can I record myself?", I tell them the options. Most other people only mention their preferred option, but if I'm the first to reply, I mention both - obviously if software has already been mentioned I only mention my preference which possibly makes me look just as one sided in those threads, but I try to be as open minded as possible.
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Last edited by GaryBillington at Oct 15, 2011,
#29
Quote by kyle62
I think this is what you're looking for:

http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/usb-microphones/gtrack/



Guitar interface and a half-decent condenser mic all built into a single USB mic. It's cheap, simple and sounds good.


Not as flexible as a proper interface in the long term, when it comes to mics, but if you want to knock out good-quality demos as cheaply and easily as possible it's great.


that seems to good to be.... good.
I play guitar.
#30
Unless portability is an issue, and you don't have a decent computer to work with, you're sacrificing quality for function on a multitracker. Sure, it might be able to do almost everything a DAW can, but the quality of the preamps on them are quite poor for the price you pay for any of the good ones.

Using amp simulator software is a HUGE advantage of a computer setup over a multitracker. With a multitracker, you're forgetting the fact that the person will also have to buy mics with the thing (or be forced to use the crappy built in ones), which can be quite expensive, if you plan on getting anything close to the quality of just recording a DI into an amp sim on a computer. Obviously, you can buy a cheap $20 mic and do it, but for the price you've now spent on that setup, you could've bought a computer interface for significantly cheaper and used an amp sim to get a much better sound. You might not use it, because you have decent amps and mics to work with, but most people starting out on recording, don't.

You also state that you can use virtual instruments on a multitracker, which is true to an extent... They may have the ability to put in drums and other instruments, but you're limited to a small amount of drums, that really don't sound real. For laying down quick ideas, they are great, but for the most part, the built in sounds are extremely easy to tell that they're fake. You don't even need to spend money with a computer setup to get great sounding drum sounds for free. Not to mention, most multitrackers don't have automation, which is a hugely useful mixing tool.

The multitrackers worth buying today are in the same price range as computer interfaces that would utterly demolish them in quality. Multitrackers definitely do have their place, but for most musicians, they are not practical, unless you really need portability. I'm really not trying to bash multitrackers, I have used them for years (though I don't now), and I've actually been looking for one to pop up for a cheap price on the used market, because it'd be nice to have one just to lay ideas down, without a concern for the sound quality, but you constantly saying that multitrackers can do everything a computer interface does is just completely ridiculous. It might do everything you might use either one to do, but that doesn't mean it actually does do everything a computer interface can do.


Again, I'm NOT saying that you're wrong in choosing a multitracker. They can be great for some people, and very useful in certain situations. I definitely appreciate you bringing them up when you do, but you're giving false information by saying that they can do everything a computer based interface can.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
Last edited by MatrixClaw at Oct 15, 2011,
#31
Quote by MatrixClaw
The Presonus might have better preamps, but M-Audio has stood behind their Fast Track series for a long time now. Presonus usually dumps their previous ranges when a new one is released and leaves everyone in the dark.


matrix, m-audio is standing behind a interface with garbage preamps,seriously. If you're driving the mic hard, it works, but if you are recording at non ear shattering volumes, the pre-amps are to noisy.

This is with the stock fasttrack pre-amps. Tinny, thin, hollow sounding:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8449636/blooddrunk_ver2test3.mp3 (recorded sloppily i'll admit, the next clip is more tight)


Now with a presonus TubePRE acting as pre-amp:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8449636/blooddrunk_ver2testNewTube3.mp3


Same amps settings, guitars, and mic positions (single SM57 at the end of the dust cap with slight angle).

Please, save you're money and try something other than the fast track. The audiobox really is going to work better.


As far as DAW vs multitracker.........DAW.
Guitars:
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LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
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Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
#32
Quote by GaryBillington
And thats my main issue with other people who post on here - you don't ask if the person wanting advice is like me or like you. As soon as I see a thread which looks like someone is wanting to get seriously into the recording side of things, I leave without posting. If I see someone asking simply "how can I record myself?", I tell them the options. Most other people only mention their preferred option, but if I'm the first to reply, I mention both - obviously if software has already been mentioned I only mention my preference which possibly makes me look just as one sided in those threads, but I try to be as open minded as possible.



hey man will you post some clips you recorded with a multitracker? and list which one you used?
Guitars:
LTD Alexi-600 White & Black
LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
Jackson JS30RR rhoads
Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
#33
Quote by Gundamnitpete
hey man will you post some clips you recorded with a multitracker? and list which one you used?

All the songs on my profile were recorded with a multitracker.

Almost all of them were recorded on a Fostex VF-80, which can be purchased used for around £100-150 on eBay, as it's a fairly old piece of equipment. With the older songs I always say you can figure out which order I recorded them in by the quality of the mixing - Your Fantasy and Dressed Up were the most recent and so probably better quality than the others.

Interlude was done on a Tascam 2488 MkII, purchased used recently for just under £300. I haven't finished any others on it yet, although I have about 5 which are at various stages of the writing & recording process.

As MatrixClaw appears to think that you have to use software in order to create drums & other instruments, I'll add that I currently use a Zoom RT-323 drum machine, this was used on Your Fantasy, Dressed Up and Interlude. It lets me do as much as I need to and most people I've played my songs to think it sounds very authentic (I'm not saying an expert would have the same opinion, but most of the people who hear my songs aren't experts and I suspect this is the same for 90% of the people who use this site).
The drums for all the older songs were done on a Yamaha PSR-640 keyboard, which did an OK job but wasn't particularly flexible.

According to the manual, my Tascam does have some midi programming capabilities, but I've never tried them and don't expect to. I use a separate drum machine because I often just set that going at a random rhythm and jam along with it. If I was using software, I wouldn't be able to do that without spending time moving my PC into a different room and setting it up.

MatrixClaw, you are probably the most closed minded person in these forums when it comes to this subject and state your opinion as if it were fact, when you're often very wrong. If you want to spend all your time fiddling with a computer to make yourself sound 5% better, thats fine. Some of us actually want to play our instruments, not sit there playing with a computer.
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Last edited by GaryBillington at Oct 15, 2011,
#34
Quote by GaryBillington
All the songs on my profile were recorded with a multitracker.

Almost all of them were recorded on a Fostex VF-80, which can be purchased used for around £100-150 on eBay, as it's a fairly old piece of equipment. With the older songs I always say you can figure out which order I recorded them in by the quality of the mixing - Your Fantasy and Dressed Up were the most recent and so probably better quality than the others.

Interlude was done on a Tascam 2488 MkII, purchased used recently for just under £300. I haven't finished any others on it yet, although I have about 5 which are at various stages of the writing & recording process.

As MatrixClaw appears to think that you have to use software in order to create drums & other instruments, I'll add that I currently use a Zoom RT-323 drum machine, this was used on Your Fantasy, Dressed Up and Interlude. It lets me do as much as I need to and most people I've played my songs to think it sounds very authentic (I'm not saying an expert would have the same opinion, but most of the people who hear my songs aren't experts and I suspect this is the same for 90% of the people who use this site).
The drums for all the older songs were done on a Yamaha PSR-640 keyboard, which did an OK job but wasn't particularly flexible.

According to the manual, my Tascam does have some midi programming capabilities, but I've never tried them and don't expect to. I use a separate drum machine because I often just set that going at a random rhythm and jam along with it. If I was using software, I wouldn't be able to do that without spending time moving my PC into a different room and setting it up.

MatrixClaw, you are probably the most closed minded person in these forums when it comes to this subject and state your opinion as if it were fact, when you're often very wrong. If you want to spend all your time fiddling with a computer to make yourself sound 5% better, thats fine. Some of us actually want to play our instruments, not sit there playing with a computer.



How do you go about transferring them to your computer?


It sounds as tho keyboards and drums take a back seat? What sort of drums samples are available in the heavy metal genre?

I don't agree with the last paragraph.
Guitars:
LTD Alexi-600 White & Black
LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
Jackson JS30RR rhoads
Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
#35
Quote by Gundamnitpete
How do you go about transferring them to your computer?


It sounds as tho keyboards and drums take a back seat? What sort of drums samples are available in the heavy metal genre?

I don't agree with the last paragraph.

The multitracker burns them direct to CD. I then rip them to my PC twice - once at full quality, once at the lower quality (approx 5mb per song) which most MP3s are at when you download them (it's the lower quality MP3 that is loaded to my profile page).

I don't use keyboards and like I said in that last email, the drums are programmed on a drum machine so they don't necessarily take a back seat, but I'd certainly pay more attention to them if I was in a band and using a real drummer.

As for that last paragraph, having re-read it I think it was probably poorly worded & a bit harsh at MatrixClaw, apologies if I offended. The point stands though, most people I've had this discussion with have admitted that multitrackers are a good option for someone who just wants to be able to record themselves. I always get the impression that MatrixClaw thinks they're toys with no place in a home recording set up. This is wrong - as I've said on several occasions the only difference is preference. Multitrackers can do everything that a software set up can do for the average home user. If you're talking about setting up a pro studio, it's a very different discussion and multitrackers wouldn't be a part of that discussion.
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#36
Quote by GaryBillington
The multitracker burns them direct to CD. I then rip them to my PC twice - once at full quality, once at the lower quality (approx 5mb per song) which most MP3s are at when you download them (it's the lower quality MP3 that is loaded to my profile page).

I don't use keyboards and like I said in that last email, the drums are programmed on a drum machine so they don't necessarily take a back seat, but I'd certainly pay more attention to them if I was in a band and using a real drummer.

As for that last paragraph, having re-read it I think it was probably poorly worded & a bit harsh at MatrixClaw, apologies if I offended. The point stands though, most people I've had this discussion with have admitted that multitrackers are a good option for someone who just wants to be able to record themselves. I always get the impression that MatrixClaw thinks they're toys with no place in a home recording set up. This is wrong - as I've said on several occasions the only difference is preference. Multitrackers can do everything that a software set up can do for the average home user. If you're talking about setting up a pro studio, it's a very different discussion and multitrackers wouldn't be a part of that discussion.



I think the bold statement is where everyone is disagreeing with you. For the average home user, who records in your style of music, which is to say drums bass guitar vox and minimal keys, works great.

However, When playing metal, you need intense guitar, intense bass, intense vocals, and IMHO most importantly intense drums.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8449636/swamphell3t.mp3 The keyboards and drums are essential parts of this song, without them it is incomplete. All recorded on reaper.


This one i wrote myself, including programming the drums. Notice how the bass drum and palm mutes often match up, A common thing for metal. Without the ability to program drums, and without a good metal kick drum sample, your own riffs have no "backup" so to speak. It's esstential to metal as we know it these days.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8449636/9thsongJJ.mp3

Without the ability to program keyboards, or drums, or bass, All I could record would be some single guitar tracks. Are there any multitrackers which will work with sonik synth 2 or Steven Slate Drums(the programs i use for keyboards, bass, and drums)?
Guitars:
LTD Alexi-600 White & Black
LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
Jackson JS30RR rhoads
Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
Last edited by Gundamnitpete at Oct 15, 2011,
#37
I don't know about those programmes in particular, but the Zoom R series (there's an 8, 16 and 24 track version) is designed to act as a multitracker which interfaces with your PC and combines the advantages of a multitracker with the use of a software mixing package.

As for the point where multitrackers work for me because of my style of music, I can't really comment as although I'm fairly varied within my style, I don't venture far away from a couple of guitars, bass, drums and vocals. Of my friends who have recording set ups, a couple are like me & use multitrackers, but a couple use software - the ones who use software do more keyboardy music and admit that they spend as much time working the software as they do playing the music.

I'm a guitar player (admittedly not a brilliant one) and that's what I focus on. The bass, drums, vocals and recording are secondary to my guitar and I've never found the kit I have limiting in any way - I don't even use half the features of my multitracker it has so many options!!
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#38
Right, that was what I wanted to illustrate, I would be severely limited in my style without metal drums and keys. I never found any of my software hard to use really.....although I've grown learning how to use about 475916491650174 versions of windows, haha! And honestly, if I fiddle with the software to make a certain keyboard squence, I don't see that as any different from fiddling with my guitar to make a guitar riff. Both are means to an end, the music.

If it sounds how you want it too, who cares how you did it?
Guitars:
LTD Alexi-600 White & Black
LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
Jackson JS30RR rhoads
Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
#39
Quote by Gundamnitpete
matrix, m-audio is standing behind a interface with garbage preamps,seriously. If you're driving the mic hard, it works, but if you are recording at non ear shattering volumes, the pre-amps are to noisy.

This is with the stock fasttrack pre-amps. Tinny, thin, hollow sounding:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8449636/blooddrunk_ver2test3.mp3 (recorded sloppily i'll admit, the next clip is more tight)


Now with a presonus TubePRE acting as pre-amp:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8449636/blooddrunk_ver2testNewTube3.mp3


Same amps settings, guitars, and mic positions (single SM57 at the end of the dust cap with slight angle).

Please, save you're money and try something other than the fast track. The audiobox really is going to work better.


As far as DAW vs multitracker.........DAW.

Neither one of those sound particularly great to me, but the TubePRE definitely is better.

I see what you're getting at, though. But I'd rather have something that is stable than something that has constant dropouts, whether the quality is compromised or not. You can always add a dedicated preamp later if it's that big of a problem. For a beginner, I'd think getting something that works reliably is of the utmost concern.

Presonus makes some great stuff though, it's just a shame they don't have very good support on the good, inexpensive ones. To be fair, I haven't tried a Fast Track in years, but out of all the M-Audio interfaces I've seen come and go, the Fast Track is the one that seems to get the best support from them, and even if the pres are bad... they can't be much worse than Line 6's

Quote by GaryBillington
As MatrixClaw appears to think that you have to use software in order to create drums & other instruments

Umm... where in my post did I ever say that?

I specifically stated in my last post that you can create them in a multitracker...

Quote by GaryBillington
I'll add that I currently use a Zoom RT-323 drum machine, this was used on Your Fantasy, Dressed Up and Interlude. It lets me do as much as I need to and most people I've played my songs to think it sounds very authentic (I'm not saying an expert would have the same opinion, but most of the people who hear my songs aren't experts and I suspect this is the same for 90% of the people who use this site).
The drums for all the older songs were done on a Yamaha PSR-640 keyboard, which did an OK job but wasn't particularly flexible.

No offense, but the drums on those songs are clearly programmed sounding. You can tell they are a drum machine, without question. There are some surprisingly good sounding parts in the drums, but it becomes very evident that the drums aren't real on quicker hits of the snare and a lot of the cymbal hits.

However, the fact that you use a separate drum machine, instead of the built in one on your multitracker only confuses me further. You're defending multitrackers by saying that they have built in sequencers, but then you don't even use them yourself. That to me says that you don't like the drum sounds found within your multitracker, and instead have to use a separate unit to get sounds you enjoy.

There are some great drum machines out there, but most of them sound very robotic, and at the price you usually pay for them, a software suite will sound much more realistic.

For what it's worth - I really enjoy the drums you have on "Frame of Mind." It's clearly not real drums... but it still fits the song well. Definitely not professional quality, but I understand you're not going for that. For the song, they work.

P.S. The tom tones on some of these songs sound pretty huge, really dig it

Quote by GaryBillington
According to the manual, my Tascam does have some midi programming capabilities, but I've never tried them and don't expect to. I use a separate drum machine because I often just set that going at a random rhythm and jam along with it. If I was using software, I wouldn't be able to do that without spending time moving my PC into a different room and setting it up.

Sure, that's why I said that if portability is a concern, multitrackers are great.

However, you can do the same exact thing in a computer. Most drum softwares come with loops, and you can download and create your own fairly easily.

Quote by GaryBillington
MatrixClaw, you are probably the most closed minded person in these forums when it comes to this subject and state your opinion as if it were fact, when you're often very wrong. If you want to spend all your time fiddling with a computer to make yourself sound 5% better, thats fine. Some of us actually want to play our instruments, not sit there playing with a computer.

And you don't?

I never said that multitrackers don't have their place, in fact, I've said the complete opposite. They are great for many users, and obviously you like yours, that's great! I'm not trying to convert you, I'm merely trying to get your facts straight.

As I've said in the past many times before in our conversations, I have used both multitrackers and computer interfaces for many years. I'm not saying multitrackers are horrible investments and that they aren't great tools for certain musicians, but as someone who has used both quite extensively (which, you have stated before, haven't), I'm trying to give an opinion from someone who has used both for similar applications. If that comes off to you as me thinking my opinion is fact, that's definitely not what I'm going for.

Clearly, the multitrackers work well for you, and you've gotten some great results, but at the same time, you've never taken the time to really sit down and learn how to use a computer interface and DAW, so your opinions based on them are completely speculation. You say you want to play your instrument and not sit there and play with a computer - Who's to say you can't still focus on playing? That statement is purely based on the fact that you don't know how to properly use a computer setup for recording. Obviously, the first time you used a multitracker, there was a learning curve and you had to figure out how to use it, the same goes with a computer interface.

For the most part, multitrackers can do what computer setups do, but at some point, the quality is compromised if you want to do everything in the box.

While a multitracker might be the best solution for many people, it's also a bad solution for others. Sure, they can be great for beginners just starting out, but at the same time, if they ever decide to delve into it more, and become more serious, the options of expandability to a multitracker are little to none. For a gentleman such as yourself, who knows what he wants out of his recording rig, and has no further ambitions to go a more professional route, then a multitracker is a fantastic tool; but you have to take into consideration that most people on this forum do not know what they're going to be doing as far as recording goes in a year from now.

At the low budgets most people on this forum have when starting out, it's easier to start someone off with a computer interface, so that if they wish to expand more, they can still use their same software they've invested in, and if they decide they don't need all the bells and whistles of DAW recording, they can go to a multitracker. They can develop an educated opinion on digital interfaces themselves, and decide whether they really need the extra features. Those Zoom interfaces are pretty cool though, because they combine a multitracker with a computer interface, but at the same time, the price you pay for them is sort of ridiculous compared to what you can get from a dedicated computer interface. If you need the flexibility, more power to you, but most people need one or the other. If they were half the price of what they are now, I would definitely buy one; but the preamps you get on them aren't worth writing home for at that price range.
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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Oct 15, 2011,
#40
I'm confused now, with all these post with a lot of words
I play guitar.
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