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#1
I am gonna be trying out some amps when i have the time. I am thinking of taking a different approach this time. I am picky about sound and still learning what works best for me. I am curious about as to all your experiences with low watt class A all tube amps. Such as the marshall class 5 , the bugera v5 , and perhaps the equivalent from vox, fender, and orange.

Watts to me is seemingly very deceptive. In home stereo audio obviously you want a high power (100watt) receiver my best home stereo receiver has been a vintage 20 watt marantz receiver from the 1970's that blows away all the modern 100 watt stuff for 2-channel audio, so even there the wattage is not representive of the true "power" of the product. From my experience in guitar, some amps just have mojo and others don't.

I play through an avatar 2x12 cabinet with celestion vintage 30's and and esp-ltd 401vf with seymour duncan passive pups. I play at low volumes. But i want an amp that sounds powerful. Not loud mind you, powerful. Meaning thick full rich warm tone.

I recently tried out a marshall MA100 , 100 watt all tube head on my setup and it sounded terrible. Cheap, thin sound. Thats what got me thinking that it would be better to have a Quality low watt amp, rather than a cheap as can possibly made high watt all tube amp.

i have taken flak for this already on here. But out of all my recent amps the one that has the closest thing to a good warm full tone has been a marshall avt50 valvestate hybrid amp it's like 10-12 years old . It's clean channel in particular sounds more full and thick then the other 100watt amp heads i have tried including the 100 watt all tube peavey windsor and marshall MA100 both of which are ultra budget entry level tube heads. Which again has gotten me thinking less about watts, and more about an amp simply having better components. Which in itself is difficult to determine because the "specs" do not tell the story at all truly. Either an amp sounds good and has guts or it does'nt and the specs can hype it to be a great amp regardless.

Explain to me the sound difference being that marshall has a 5watt class A tube amp for 499$ , and in the MA series you get a 100watt all tube amp for 799$.

What are other good candidates of these types of amps that cost in the 400$ - 500$ dollar bracket
#2
Um, why did you start another thread?
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#4
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Better components, more R&D spent on the amp.

It takes more effort to make a good amp than a bad amp

more effort=more moolah


This, also the $200-$400 5 watters look pretty cool and have much better exteriors than the budget 15 watts.
Quote by FEngHLyan

She will join the prom.

She insists to wear this lights.

I don't think so.

How can I persuade her?
#5
thanks for the responces, about the power output though. Is the 5 watts enough to sufficiently push and drive 12 inch 60 watt speakers? Everything i have read people are saying that these A class amps are very loud and authoritive sounding.
#6
I believe 15 watts are sufficient for smaller venues. You might want to try out the night train by vox. I've played everything through it at my local sam ash and it never manages to fail me tone wise. If not perhaps orange's tiny terror might do it for you.

:edit:
Don't pay any mind to people that talk about amp classes, they are usually tone snobs and probably spend more of their time at home or recording than actually playing. You think the MC5 spent their time snooping out amps?
Last edited by Yjmshredder at Oct 20, 2011,
#10
thanks Yjmshredder , btw the venue is my bedroom. living room, and occasionally back porch garage area. So i am not looking for earth shaking volume. More just an amp that sounds strong with a full juicy tone at low to moderate volumes. Thats why i have considered going with a better quality lower watt amp rather than a cheap 100 watt head.
#11
Watts mean nothing.
50W is only twice as loud as 5W.
And 500W is only 4x as loud as 5W.
5W will still hurt your ears.

Watts=/=loudness
Increased power gives you increased clean headroom. But not necessarily more volume.
#12
I closed the other.
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#13
Thanks TN footballer, i just signed up here the other day i am still learning the mechanics of the forum i did not mean to double post.

GS LEAD , ty for clarifying on the wattage.

Testing different amps with my own ears will be done to. But i just wanted to know a little more about what to seek out in the first place.
#14
Quote by GS LEAD 5
5W will need to be miced, and in a band setting you wont have any cleans.


I run a 100 watt '74 Twin Reverb and still mic it. my amp is really only on stage so I can hear it. The crowd and the rest of the band hears it through Monitors or Mains... I actually use an Isolation sheild so that It's not TOO loud on stage, but I can turn it up to get the sound I want. I mean lets face it... A tube amp doesn't start sounding good until it overdrives just a tad...

Just My $0.02
#15
5 watts is still loud enough to gig with potentially, or get the cops called on you. the issue is headroom. gigging with 5 watts will perminently mke you sound like angus young...only. ie - overdriven hard rock.
#16
Quote by Papabear505
I run a 100 watt '74 Twin Reverb and still mic it. my amp is really only on stage so I can hear it. The crowd and the rest of the band hears it through Monitors or Mains... I actually use an Isolation sheild so that It's not TOO loud on stage, but I can turn it up to get the sound I want. I mean lets face it... A tube amp doesn't start sounding good until it overdrives just a tad...

Just My $0.02


You must be running it real quiet, or youre playing really big gigs i know a guy who runs a Pod X3 into a 65W Twin's FX return, and that thing is balls loud.

And to get a Twin to overdrive, youll need it loud enough to demolish small cities.
Though if he wants pristine clean cleans, he wont get them on a cranked 5W. Broken up cleans might not be what he needs. Then again, hes all set if he doesnt it.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Oct 20, 2011,
#17
i am actually thinking of 15watts now. Orange tiny terror , vox ac15 , something along that lines. Same idea though, lower watts better quality.
#18
It doesn't matter how big the amp is you should be miking it, otherwise how is the sound guy going to have any control over the guitar in the FOH mix?

Why I won't use my small amps at gigs is twofold:
1. You have to rely on the foldback mix totally to hear yourself over the drums. I like to be more autonomous than that.
2. You can't get good feedback out of them.

If neither of those are an issue then there's no reason why you shouldn't use one.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#19
All I know is that I'd rather have the 5 watt Class 5 over the 100 watt MA any day.

The MA sucks and Class 5 is sweet.

But there are tons of other amps out there you can look at. Blackheart BH15, Bugera V22, Crate Vs and Palos, Egnater Rebel 20 and Tweakers, Fender SuperChamp, Laney VC15/GH50, Orange Dark Terror/Rocker, Peavey Classic 30/Valveking/Vypyr, Vox Night Train/AC15, etc etc

Or - look at some of the Marshall clones like a Ceriatone.

you may have to look used

What is your closest major city?
#20
Quote by Cathbard
It doesn't matter how big the amp is you should be miking it, otherwise how is the sound guy going to have any control over the guitar in the FOH mix?

Why I won't use my small amps at gigs is twofold:
1. You have to rely on the foldback mix totally to hear yourself over the drums. I like to be more autonomous than that.
2. You can't get good feedback out of them.

If neither of those are an issue then there's no reason why you shouldn't use one.

i've gotten excellent feedback out of the carlsbro 15 watt head when it's cranked. and that was using a 1x12.
#21
Quote by NakedInTheRain
i've gotten excellent feedback out of the carlsbro 15 watt head when it's cranked. and that was using a 1x12.

It's just not the same as a cranked 50W + thru a 4x12. You can't do this can you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18FgnFVm5k0
jump to 2:30

There's feedback and then there's feedback. I want it all across the stage not just when I am resting my guitar on the amp. If it can't pull off Gary Moore or Ted Nugent type of feedback I'm not taking it on stage.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
I can get feedback out of my 18W'ers too but it's just not the same. Doesn't take off properly on every note and I have to be standing fairly close. Even then it's not like a JTM. It can pull off very convincing JTM tones - until you start trying to work some serious feedback, then the limitations of the smaller power amp comes into play.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#24
311ZOSOVHJH, good suggestions. I am in bakersfield ca, and i do have a guitar center here. Used is generally what i buy unless it is something i really want badly. That may suck for the manufacturer but it is what it is.
#25
Quote by Cathbard
I can get feedback out of my 18W'ers too but it's just not the same. Doesn't take off properly on every note and I have to be standing fairly close. Even then it's not like a JTM. It can pull off very convincing JTM tones - until you start trying to work some serious feedback, then the limitations of the smaller power amp comes into play.


How does that work though? a 50 watter should be about 3db or so louder than an 18. maybe a bit more?
#26
Quote by GS LEAD 5
How does that work though? a 50 watter should be about 3db or so louder than an 18. maybe a bit more?

It's just pumping more air and making the strings vibrate. Ears are logarithmic, not strings.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#27
Quote by changeling93305
311ZOSOVHJH, good suggestions. I am in bakersfield ca, and i do have a guitar center here. Used is generally what i buy unless it is something i really want badly. That may suck for the manufacturer but it is what it is.

There is an AC30 on your Clist that you could talk down or stretch to. Maybe you saw it. There is also a Tweaker, an AVT and a Bugera V55 on there (but I don't think it is as nice sounding as the V22).
#28
You must be running it real quiet, or youre playing really big gigs i know a guy who runs a Pod X3 into a 65W Twin's FX return, and that thing is balls loud.

And to get a Twin to overdrive, youll need it loud enough to demolish small cities.
Though if he wants pristine clean cleans, he wont get them on a cranked 5W. Broken up cleans might not be what he needs. Then again, hes all set if he doesnt it.


Ok first of all, even in a small club, if you want to mix your sound so that it's pleasent to hear, and not just a volume fest, you don't need to play balls loud. If the master volume is turned up my twin (vintage 1974) will make your ears bleed at 5. I can over power any instrument on stage... but why would I want to do that? I need to hear it, and the band needs to hear it.. the mix comes from the "Mixing board" the only way to get my amp connected to the Mixer is to mic it... (this amp is close to 40 years old, it doesn't have an FX loop or a line out.)

And to get a Twin to over drive you simply have to turn the master volume down, and the channel volume up... the purpose is to overdrive the tubes not the speakers. It's not about volume for me, but sound quality. 100 watts can be loud, but for me it's just clean.
#29
Quote by Papabear505
Ok first of all, even in a small club, if you want to mix your sound so that it's pleasent to hear, and not just a volume fest, you don't need to play balls loud. If the master volume is turned up my twin (vintage 1974) will make your ears bleed at 5. I can over power any instrument on stage... but why would I want to do that? I need to hear it, and the band needs to hear it.. the mix comes from the "Mixing board" the only way to get my amp connected to the Mixer is to mic it... (this amp is close to 40 years old, it doesn't have an FX loop or a line out.)

And to get a Twin to over drive you simply have to turn the master volume down, and the channel volume up... the purpose is to overdrive the tubes not the speakers. It's not about volume for me, but sound quality. 100 watts can be loud, but for me it's just clean.


hi. you don't have a clue.

the end.
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#30


hi. you don't have a clue.

the end.


LMAO... Ok... Clue me in oh great one
Last edited by Papabear505 at Oct 21, 2011,
#31
^IIRC turning up the channel volume on a twin will cause the preamp to distort, not the poweramp. To get the poweramp to distort, you need to crank the amp.
EDIT: And I was talking about gigs without a PA. a 5Watter WILL need a PA. But you can get by with a 50 watter without.
#32
Quote by GS LEAD 5
^IIRC turning up the channel volume on a twin will cause the preamp to distort, not the poweramp. To get the poweramp to distort, you need to crank the amp.


Thats what I was trying to say, but I did say it wrong, so thank you for the correction. The point I was making is that I can get overdrive with my amp.

Quote by GS LEAD 5
EDIT: And I was talking about gigs without a PA. a 5Watter WILL need a PA. But you can get by with a 50 watter without.


Ok, maybe I'm just old, but a Gig to me is performing... who does that without a PA?
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#33
Quote by Papabear505

Ok, maybe I'm just old, but a Gig to me is performing... who does that without a PA?
+ a ludicrously big number.
Still, if I'm gigging I want at least 50W for the reasons I stated earlier. Even then, I still always mike up the amp. Not miking the amp is pure amateur behaviour.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
Quote by Cathbard
Not miking the amp is pure amateur behaviour.


That's what I'm saying...

And for the record, I have been looking at retiring my old twin to my studio (better known around my house as the garage) and thinking I don't need 100 watts for the venues that I'm playing now. I think I agree with you Cathbard, and I'd want something not much less than 50 watts at a minimum..
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#35
Quote by Papabear505
That's what I'm saying...

And for the record, I have been looking at retiring my old twin to my studio (better known around my house as the garage) and thinking I don't need 100 watts for the venues that I'm playing now. I think I agree with you Cathbard, and I'd want something not much less than 50 watts at a minimum..

Pull out two of the power tubes (either the two inside ones or the two outside ones) and turn the impedance switch down one notch. Bada bing bada boom - 50W amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#36
Quote by Cathbard
Pull out two of the power tubes (either the two inside ones or the two outside ones) and turn the impedance switch down one notch. Bada bing bada boom - 50W amp.


I'll have to go look, but I dont think I have an impedence switch... only two switches I've got is power and standby...

To give you a clue about my electronics ability, when I flip the switch, it makes noise... if it don't... It's broke, and I call someone like you..
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#37
A Fender Twin will cope even if you don't have an impedance switch to rematch the output. Takes more than a simple 2X mismatch to blow a Twin.
Here's another popular option for Fender Twins. Replace the 6L6's with JJ 6V6's.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#38
Quote by Cathbard
.
Here's another popular option for Fender Twins. Replace the 6L6's with JJ 6V6's.


Now, I know where I can get that done...

thanks Cathbard..
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#39
Make sure they are JJ 6V6's. JJ 6V6's are perhaps the best valve made today. Others may not cope with the high voltages in a Twin but a JJ will suck it up with ease.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#40
Adding preamp gain doesn't really make it too much louder does it? Just more harmonics?

Cranking the post gain and using the pre gain as your volume doesn't make the power amp tubes work any harder, just sets it up to have as little preamp gain as possible. Which is a good thing with your 5150 cause that has a retarded amount of gain on tap.

At least thats how I would see it, prove me wrong.
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