#1
Alright, so a while ago I was planning to get Peavey Vypyr 100W a while ago because its pretty obvious I need a amp upgrade (Only using practice amps so far) if I want to do anything professional music wise, like starting a band and record demo's and play live.

When I actually had enough money to buy one I was in my previous band (who played with huge Marshall cabinets for the guitarists guitarist with a marshall and mesa head) the drummer said "I hate amps with built in effects" when I was at guitar center with them and testing it out, which slightly discouraged me because they had gear you could actually be seen playing with live and taken seriously, so I had felt they had some good knowledge about gear.

Now normally by this point I'd think he was just an idiot, but if I remember correctly around that time period I also heard someone arguing pedals where better than built in effects.

So now I ask you guys. Are built in effects any good, or are there better alternatives out there?

edit: If its relevant, I play thrash/speed metal, and come up with very melodic eerie stuff similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wqw9DktF2o
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Oct 21, 2011,
#2
Depends on the amp. IMO, my biggest reason for preferring pedals is that (in comparison to most on-board effects), you have more control over the settings of the effects.

However, that said, if I needed a ton of effects and my precious Line 6 M13 wasn't an option, the Peavey Tube Vypyr and a Sanpera II would be mighty tempting.......
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#4
Quote by souperman08
Depends on the amp. IMO, my biggest reason for preferring pedals is that (in comparison to most on-board effects), you have more control over the settings of the effects.

However, that said, if I needed a ton of effects and my precious Line 6 M13 wasn't an option, the Peavey Tube Vypyr and a Sanpera II would be mighty tempting.......


I think the Vypyr has its own pedal so you can switch between effects that you pre-set. So Vypyr has the control, I think he was talking sound wise.

And I think theres also other methods for it like this huge computer thing a lot of celebrities use, I'm trying to remember the name for right now but is probably out of my reach for now.
#5
AxeFX

LOL.

Amps with built in effects tend to be on the lower spectrum of cost and in turn, quality. There aren't many tube amps with them.
NOW PART OF THE

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You are epic my friend ;-)
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At this point I'd be more surprised if you found me a Christian children's entertainer that didn't sodomize and eat kids.
Last edited by GibsonMan321 at Oct 21, 2011,
#6
Quote by GibsonMan321
AxeFX

LOL.

Amps with built in effects tend to be on the lower spectrum of cost and in turn, quality. There aren't many tube amps with them.


Is this just because they're made cheaply to be of lower cost, or is it specifically because they're built in?
#7
Quote by zomgguitarz1234
Is this just because they're made cheaply to be of lower cost, or is it specifically because they're built in?


It's more that they're just cheaply made, the amp isn't necessarily bad JUST because it has included effects. They're supposed to appeal more to beginning players so that they can get an idea of what an effect sounds like, so they can go out and buy a pedal of whatever effects they like the best.
NOW PART OF THE

Quote by Robchappers
You are epic my friend ;-)
Quote by RU Experienced?
At this point I'd be more surprised if you found me a Christian children's entertainer that didn't sodomize and eat kids.
#8
Better alternatives? This:


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#9
Quote by Cathbard
Better alternatives? This:




That looks like a piece of hospital equipment. I like it.
#10
It's served me well for 20 years or so. Putting it all in one cabinet is relatively new though. Luckily the amp fits inside a 19" enclosure, not many tube amps will but that doesn't stop you making a taller headshell with a rack built into it. Good amp + good effects = win. Amps with built in effects are largely beginner's amps. About the only ones that aren't children's toys are the Vyper Tubes. Still, I'd much prefer my rig to a Vyper Tube.
When you're ready to step up to big boys toys - go rack. Once you go rack you never look back.
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Marshall 18W clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#11
Quote by Cathbard
It's served me well for 20 years or so. Putting it all in one cabinet is relatively new though. Luckily the amp fits inside a 19" enclosure, not many tube amps will but that doesn't stop you making a taller headshell with a rack built into it. Good amp + good effects = win. Amps with built in effects are largely beginner's amps. About the only ones that aren't children's toys are the Vyper Tubes. Still, I'd much prefer my rig to a Vyper Tube.
When you're ready to step up to big boys toys - go rack. Once you go rack you never look back.


Thats actually what I was talking about earlier when I said this.

Quote by zomgguitarz1234

And I think theres also other methods for it like this huge computer thing a lot of celebrities use, I'm trying to remember the name for right now but is probably out of my reach for now.


So where should I start when looking deeper into building a rack (or buying one)? I keep getting the ones you use to prop guitar up on.
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Oct 21, 2011,
#12
Quote by GibsonMan321
AxeFX

LOL.

Amps with built in effects tend to be on the lower spectrum of cost and in turn, quality. There aren't many tube amps with them.

Tremolo and Reverb are effects. Plenty of 3 grand plus amps have them.
Also amps like this-



@TS: A Vypyr is a great sounding amp, but I suggest going for the Tube 60 version over the 100.
#13
Really depends on how deep your pockets are and how much of that you're willing to spend. The 60w tube vypyr combo will set you back $450 new + footswitch.
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#14
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Tremolo and Reverb are effects. Plenty of 3 grand plus amps have them.
Also amps like this-
cool amp


@TS: A Vypyr is a great sounding amp, but I suggest going for the Tube 60 version over the 100.

Very true. Reverb has become so standard that nobody even thinks about it. Tremelo has pretty much died on amps. That died with Hank Marvin's popularity. When I build amps that had tremelo I leave the tremelo out. Isn't much call for it anymore and tube tremelo circuits are overly complex and not worth the pita it is to make them.
And definitely the Vyper 60 or 120. The others are rather amateurish sounding by comparison.
I have an amp I want for my own personal amusement on the drawing board that will have the effects included but they will be separate entities in the headshell. Basically what I said about making a taller headshell to fit a couple of rack units. I want Gary Moore in a box (and I don't like digging holes ).
Gotta sell a few more cookie tin amps before I can afford to do it though. I'm actually surprised that amps with rack spaces didn't become more popular.


People just don't know what's good for them.
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
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Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 21, 2011,
#17
Quote by zomgguitarz1234
Where can I learn more about racks??

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006732

Quote by n1ckn1ce
It looks complexier then a spaceship.
It's remarkably easy to drive. It's equipment I've been using for a very long time though so I guess if I didn't find it easy to drive I'd be the dumbass of the century.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 21, 2011,
#18

Gotta sell a few more cookie tin amps before I can afford to do it though. I'm actually surprised that amps with rack spaces didn't become more popular.

People just don't know what's good for them.

Brunetti makes one, I think.

As far as built-in effects go, go for the Vypyr Tube over the 100, OP, it will sound a lot better.
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#19
Quote by Raijouta
Brunetti makes one, I think.

As far as built-in effects go, go for the Vypyr Tube over the 100, OP, it will sound a lot better.


Think I'm going to do some research into racks for a bit, although my friend who knows a lot more about guitars than I do claims that racks can't match the tone of a tube amp.
#20
Quote by zomgguitarz1234
Think I'm going to do some research into racks for a bit, although my friend who knows a lot more about guitars than I do claims that racks can't match the tone of a tube amp.

Hey what now? There are tube amps in racks. I just showed you two.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#21
Quote by Cathbard
Hey what now? There are tube amps in racks. I just showed you two.


Yeah, he started that statement by "In my experience" and followed by saying "I'm not the one to ask about racks" so I was just bouncing it off you guys to see if theres any truth to it.

I keep hearing about the Axe-FX 1 and 2, although everywhere I go it seems that it makes its own rack.
#22
The Axe-FX acts as the preamp. If you go for a full rack you get to choose whatever preamp and power amp you feel like. Some will go for a modeller like the Axe-FX, others will go for a tube preamp. I'm a tube man, the AxeFX holds no appeal for me.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
Quote by Cathbard
Very true. Reverb has become so standard that nobody even thinks about it. Tremelo has pretty much died on amps. That died with Hank Marvin's popularity. When I build amps that had tremelo I leave the tremelo out. Isn't much call for it anymore and tube tremelo circuits are overly complex and not worth the pita it is to make them.
And definitely the Vyper 60 or 120. The others are rather amateurish sounding by comparison.
I have an amp I want for my own personal amusement on the drawing board that will have the effects included but they will be separate entities in the headshell. Basically what I said about making a taller headshell to fit a couple of rack units. I want Gary Moore in a box (and I don't like digging holes ).
Gotta sell a few more cookie tin amps before I can afford to do it though. I'm actually surprised that amps with rack spaces didn't become more popular.


People just don't know what's good for them.


Me cant afford whats good for me

Wish I had about 5 grand....id be rocking either an Axe or a Road King then
#24
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Me cant afford whats good for me

Wish I had about 5 grand....id be rocking either an Axe or a Road King then

Learn how to make your own. People end up using just one or two sounds in their ultra-versatile rigs anyway. You just need to find your sound and build the appropriate single purpose machine tailored to your needs. Then all you have to pay for is parts and put it together yourself.
That's one of the great beauties of valve amps. You can do everything yourself with relatively little knowledge or skill. They are the hobbyists dream. You can do everything yourself if you set your mind to it sufficiently. All you need is a few brains and an inquisitive mind.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#25
Quote by Cathbard
Learn how to make your own. People end up using just one or two sounds in their ultra-versatile rigs anyway. You just need to find your sound and build the appropriate single purpose machine tailored to your needs. Then all you have to pay for is parts and put it together yourself.
That's one of the great beauties of valve amps. You can do everything yourself with relatively little knowledge or skill. They are the hobbyists dream. You can do everything yourself if you set your mind to it sufficiently. All you need is a few brains and an inquisitive mind.

Thats the thing. I cant get a single tone that does everything for me. prolly just personal preference but I pretty much use 4 or 5 different sounds for each of my bands songs. The only type of tone I dont use is the scooped sort. Il give an example. Ive got one set of patches for djenty stuff- very little gain, lots of mids and treble, no effects, another for ambient stuff, clean cleans, lots of delay and verb, ive got a whole bank of Recto patches just for playing DT covers
That plus having to change sounds a lot in a song pretty much point at a 3/4 channel amp with a rack effects unit or a proper MFX modeller. The average song for me is like minimum three patches- say a thick bassy setting for rhythm, a sharpish setting fr leads and a brightish clean with delay.

So far, an RK of some sort with a MIDI effects unit or an Axe Fx are the things that sort of suit my needs. Sadly, im still a few years away from getting it.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Oct 22, 2011,
#26
nothing wrong with using amps with built in FX if that's what works for you.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#27
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Thats the thing. I cant get a single tone that does everything for me. prolly just personal preference but I pretty much use 4 or 5 different sounds for each of my bands songs. The only type of tone I dont use is the scooped sort. Il give an example. Ive got one set of patches for djenty stuff- very little gain, lots of mids and treble, no effects, another for ambient stuff, clean cleans, lots of delay and verb, ive got a whole bank of Recto patches just for playing DT covers
That plus having to change sounds a lot in a song pretty much point at a 3/4 channel amp with a rack effects unit or a proper MFX modeller. The average song for me is like minimum three patches- say a thick bassy setting for rhythm, a sharpish setting fr leads and a brightish clean with delay.

So far, an RK of some sort with a MIDI effects unit or an Axe Fx are the things that sort of suit my needs. Sadly, im still a few years away from getting it.

I use a simple three channel valve amp. I run a programmable boost out front and another unit with a programmable output in the loop. That effectively gives me an infinite range of gain structures at the press of a button. There is still a base sound there, it just varies around it (actually there are two). That's the main thing my rack does. I don't use many effects these days even though I have a lot at my fingertips.

There are easy ways to make a simple amp cover what you need. Eventually you will find a base sound that is you. Give it time, it will come to you.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 22, 2011,
#30
Quote by mulefish
quadraverb bros

They rock don't they?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#31
Quote by Cathbard
They rock don't they?

Hell yeah; it's way better than I expected. Cheap too.
RIP Gooze

cats
#32
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Thats the thing. I cant get a single tone that does everything for me. prolly just personal preference but I pretty much use 4 or 5 different sounds for each of my bands songs. The only type of tone I dont use is the scooped sort. Il give an example. Ive got one set of patches for djenty stuff- very little gain, lots of mids and treble, no effects, another for ambient stuff, clean cleans, lots of delay and verb, ive got a whole bank of Recto patches just for playing DT covers
That plus having to change sounds a lot in a song pretty much point at a 3/4 channel amp with a rack effects unit or a proper MFX modeller. The average song for me is like minimum three patches- say a thick bassy setting for rhythm, a sharpish setting fr leads and a brightish clean with delay.

So far, an RK of some sort with a MIDI effects unit or an Axe Fx are the things that sort of suit my needs. Sadly, im still a few years away from getting it.


If you needs a few different tones, maybe look into the Mesa Triaxis?
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#33
Is there any way to test out rack parts to see if they're what you're looking for? Or is it mostly random shots in the dark until you get lucky.
#34
The best way is if you can find a hire place that carries what you are interested in. Hire it for a day and give it a run. After that the best thing is to try it out in the shop. You will be unlikely to find the other components you will be using it with there as well but you can get a good idea, you just have to use your imagination a bit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band