#2
Garageband comes with 'em! Doesn't get more basic than this, easy to use with incredible results!
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#3
I use a mac, and garageband comes standard. I hear Logic is nice too, i haven't used it yet though.
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#5
Quote by 2112/3
i know macs arent that powerful



Garage band comes standard, but if you're prepared to spend some money Protools is the industry standard recording software. Theres also logic, cubase and abelton. Of course you could get cracked versions, but that would be illegal and should not be condoned.
#6
Quote by 2112/3
i know macs arent that powerful

Err...

Macs are used in 90% of professional studios.


Cubase, Logic and Pro Tools are the 3 big ones on Mac.
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#8
People facepalming at the Macs are not powerful comment

Seriously guys? A Mac has like half processing power of a non-Mac PC at the same price. Non-Macs also have more software options, which is only a bad thing if you are an idiot who can't afford to think about it.
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#9
Quote by RiseAgainstScum
Seriously guys? A Mac has like half processing power of a non-Mac PC at the same price. Non-Macs also have more software options, which is only a bad thing if you are an idiot who can't afford to think about it.

No, that depends very much on the brand. Also, processing power is not the only measure of a computer's speed, and many other things determine the overall performance of a machine.

There is a lot of reasons why the majority of professionals in the audio/visual and graphic design industries use Macs, and for most of that majority it is not just about the cool factor, because Macs were the standard platform well before Apple became a major 'hipster' brand that could sell a turd to the masses if they painted it white and called it the iPoo.

Finally, just because you may be able to build a custom machine that is twice as powerful as a similarly-priced Mac (which should be possible anyway, as you're custom-building it and getting individual parts without having to markup the price of the combined unit to sell to yourself) does not mean any Mac is not a powerful machine - my 2008 iMac still wipes the floor with the typical sub £500 shop-bought home computer, despite only having 2GB of RAM and a 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU.

Apart from the Unix architecture allowing the OS to operate faster with less RAM usage, I am capable of running projects of 40+ tracks with many CPU-intensive plug-ins, and still record new tracks to them without having to freeze any tracks, and with the buffer rate at just 256 samples - try this on a similarly-spec'd Windows machine and see what result you get.

I can't even be bothered to argue any further about this because you're missing the point of why people are amused, just to cause a confrontation about something you think you're cool for going against. If you can't see why many professionals use Macs, other than being too stupid to use a Windows machine (which is a stupid belief, considering the level of computer knowledge it takes to become a fully-proficient modern day studio engineer) and just buying whatever has the best advert, then you are obviously not someone who has been in many situations where you work at a high level.


As for the software thing - most of the 'industry standard' software is Mac-compatible, even though 'industry standard' is a stupid thing to measure with, but there are plenty of industry standard products that are Mac-only, and given the popularity of Windows machines over Mac ones in the overall computer market, that alone tears a whole in your software argument. How often have you heard someone complain about not having any good software because they're on a Mac? Aside from freeware pc-only plug-ins, which are becoming rarer now as many major freeware developers (like LePou/Poulin) have started porting and developing products for Mac, I've heard more people complain because they can't try out Logic Pro, than I've heard complaining that they can't use something that is PC-only.
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#10
When were Macs a "standard platform"?

Are you implying your 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo running on OSX would have the same or better music production benchmarks than a i5 2500K running on Ubuntu Studio? (assuming same software)

Doesn't OSX have a simple voice recording program? Would TS find that suitable?
I listen to mostly anything, except country and rap.
#11
Quote by RiseAgainstScum
When were Macs a "standard platform"?


In studios bro. Not the rest of the world. Walk into any full professional studio and you'll find plenty of mac's. The PC's are the ones there "just in case".
#12
Quote by RiseAgainstScum
When were Macs a "standard platform"?

Are you implying your 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo running on OSX would have the same or better music production benchmarks than a i5 2500K running on Ubuntu Studio? (assuming same software)

Doesn't OSX have a simple voice recording program? Would TS find that suitable?

Sandy answered first bit.

Not gonna argue any further as I don't care, and am tired at the moment, but I would imagine that my Mac running Logic Pro 8 will probably perform better than a PC of that setup running Ubuntu Studio, yes, although I've never used Ubuntu Studio so am only guessing that it would be a bit weaker given it is open source and has less need to be developed as quickly and strongly as possible, not to mention people may be modifying things in negative ways, and the code could become outdated easily if people develop from the same, older base code.

Anyway, like I said - enough of this; and TS' best option on a budget is to just use Garageband - it's far superior to tracking in Audacity/Sound Recorder etc. and is probably easier to get to grips with than proper DAW's. It also comes pre-installed on all Macs so shouldn't be an issue to obtain as he will have it unless he deleted it/bought a modified Mac in broken warranty (which I doubt as they're quite rare).
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#13
Mac's aren't that powerful? Man seriously? So why is it that 80% of professional studios use Macs?

I use Logic Pro 9. But it's pretty expensive.
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#14
Quote by sandyman323
In studios bro. Not the rest of the world. Walk into any full professional studio and you'll find plenty of mac's. The PC's are the ones there "just in case".


also in the Printing/Design world Macs are prevalent.
Now running an Eleven Rack with Pro Tools 10.3.3 - it's amazing and I'm having ball with it - worth every penny. PT 10 is tops IMO and the Eleven Rack is a work of art!
#15
Why the popularity bias about macs?

That all the studio's use it says nothing.

I'm typing this from an 2008 imac as well btw.

And my Imac has been running slower just like all my other machines I owned mac/pc w/e.

(Also have regular pc similar specs to this and a 2009 macbook).

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#16
Quote by Kozlic
So why is it that 80% of professional studios use Macs?


Because Macs were first in the game for audio and midi applications - at least offering a reasonable standard.

A studio who, twenty years ago, invested in ProTools on a Mac would need to re-invest in the software all over again if they wanted to go PC, rather than pay the upgrade price.

So, it would be more expensive to migrate to PC, and their staff would have to re-learn things that were different between the two platforms.

If it ain't broke, don't throw money at it to fix it and p!ss people off.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#17
Quote by axemanchris
A studio who, twenty years ago, invested in ProTools on a Mac would need to re-invest in the software all over again if they wanted to go PC, rather than pay the upgrade price.


There is so much truth to this statement. Originally, when I built my PC 3 years ago, it cost me about $600. Since then, I've had to spend about $300 on upgrades to keep it going (Partly because upgrading to PT9 also forced me to upgrade to Windows 7). Even then, with the new processors and everything, its getting to the point where any more upgrades I do to my PC requires a whole new Processor & Mobo costing me probably another $500. In total, I'll be up to $1500ish (had to get a few new HDs)

Lets compare it to a Mac. Out of the box, you're looking at a little more price ($1200 for a base iMac). But, 3 years later, you won't need to upgrade. If you do, you're seriously doing it wrong
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#18
Quote by lockwolf
There is so much truth to this statement. Originally, when I built my PC 3 years ago, it cost me about $600. Since then, I've had to spend about $300 on upgrades to keep it going (Partly because upgrading to PT9 also forced me to upgrade to Windows 7). Even then, with the new processors and everything, its getting to the point where any more upgrades I do to my PC requires a whole new Processor & Mobo costing me probably another $500. In total, I'll be up to $1500ish (had to get a few new HDs)

Lets compare it to a Mac. Out of the box, you're looking at a little more price ($1200 for a base iMac). But, 3 years later, you won't need to upgrade. If you do, you're seriously doing it wrong



What mac do you have?

Mine is 3 years old, and it feels slow now. On my pc I recently did a fresh OS installation, and it's totally bug free and smooth running again. Startup only takes 1 minute again w00h00

Also, a good audio interface is needed on both machines which is a far better use to spend more money in.

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#19
Quote by xxdarrenxx
What mac do you have?


None, I'm talking about my PC

Yeah, a good audio interface is needed for both computers but if I had to choose, I'd rather have a more powerful system than a higher end interface. For most home recordings (like most people do here), you aren't going to notice the difference between a Pod Studio & a full Pro Tools HD setup
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#20
Just to chime in but a lot of the Mac bias comes down to the Mac Pro, not the iMac (even though I have an iMac at present) which is a lot more readily-expandible than the cheaper Macs, and in general the reason a lot of studios go for Macs is more because they're purpose built to have flawless compatibility - because they're assembled with the same parts, rather than the multitude of different motherboards, chipsets and parts the different PC brands use, meaning that the Mac only needs the drivers it comes with (or that are updated via free downloads) in order to run with anything that is supposed to be compatible... therefore the product developers don't need to tweak the product to work with a wide variety of setups, and it means they're often more stable than a similar-spec'd Windows/PC setup.

Because of all that, you will rarely need an install disk for most peripherals/hardware/interfaces for a Mac, and they're recognised automatically, which I guess means it's easier for people newer to the game, or who have a limited knowledge about computers and selecting the right setups for the best compatibility, so those who jumped across from the analogue world have an easier time adjusting.


Finally, I'm far from biased towards Apple themselves, as the Mac is the only Apple product I own (excluding Logic, obviously), so I try to stay away from the whole 'Macs are cool' thing - I hated them, until I was taught how to use DAW's on them, and ended up getting one so I could have Logic too. I will say on the flipside though, that another reason people may be biased is because a lot of music schools/colleges have Apple sponsorships and teach the students on Macs.
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#21
Quote by 2112/3
anyone know some good music production software that would work on a mac? i know macs arent that powerful but i dont need a heavy duty program just one i could record into and make songs on


Macs aren't that powerful? Seriously what?

Garageband is great as standard, but with a little hunting online or a little money you could easily get logic or pro tools.
Top lel.
#22
Macs are powerful units, just depends on which mac you buy. And I would say Logic 9. It is logical hence the name and very cheap for its price, comparing to DAWs like Cubase 5 or something.
#23
Quote by axemanchris
Because Macs were first in the game for audio and midi applications


My Atari ST and Amiga were pretty powerful in their day. The ST even had built-in MIDI
Now running an Eleven Rack with Pro Tools 10.3.3 - it's amazing and I'm having ball with it - worth every penny. PT 10 is tops IMO and the Eleven Rack is a work of art!
#24
Quote by strangedogs
My Atari ST and Amiga were pretty powerful in their day. The ST even had built-in MIDI


HA! I remember those machines!

The 1040ST was the business, man!

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#25
The simplest answer is to install Windows 7 on your Mac and dual-boot. Windows for work, OSX for play. Having an operating system dedicated to recording


Also, this stuff about Macs being in 80% of studios is rubbish, most of the serious
studios here use PCs with custom Pro Tools HD rigs.
Macs are definitely less powerful in the sense that they cost twice as much for the same performance, but I totally appreciate how the closed ecosystem and good customer service/ warranty would be worthwhile for a dedicated recording setup if you've got the money to spare.Personally can't stand em though!
#26
For me, it is cost that prevents me from using a mac. I can replace my desktop three times over and still be ahead of the game compared to the cost of buying a mac.

Add to that the reality that, even if I replace a desktop PC every four years with a brand new one, at the end of year 8, I move onto my third brand new PC, which will be even cheaper than this year's, and probably four times more powerful, and the mac that I *could* have bought is now eight years old, and antiquated to being nearly useless.


Add to that again, that I can fix my own PCs with inexpensive parts off the shelf. I was in an Apple store about six months ago. Someone needed a hard drive replaced on their MacBook, and it was going to be $400. That's the price I paid for my PC laptop as a brand new purchase.

I haven't priced hard drives lately, but I'm betting I could get a decent hard drive for about $50 or thereabouts. I'm also just guessing here, but I'd bet that any Apple store would laugh me right out the front door if I asked for a hard drive for *anything* in a price range of under $100.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#27
Quote by DisarmGoliath
No, that depends very much on the brand. Also, processing power is not the only measure of a computer's speed, and many other things determine the overall performance of a machine.

There is a lot of reasons why the majority of professionals in the audio/visual and graphic design industries use Macs, and for most of that majority it is not just about the cool factor, because Macs were the standard platform well before Apple became a major 'hipster' brand that could sell a turd to the masses if they painted it white and called it the iPoo.

Finally, just because you may be able to build a custom machine that is twice as powerful as a similarly-priced Mac (which should be possible anyway, as you're custom-building it and getting individual parts without having to markup the price of the combined unit to sell to yourself) does not mean any Mac is not a powerful machine - my 2008 iMac still wipes the floor with the typical sub £500 shop-bought home computer, despite only having 2GB of RAM and a 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU.

Apart from the Unix architecture allowing the OS to operate faster with less RAM usage, I am capable of running projects of 40+ tracks with many CPU-intensive plug-ins, and still record new tracks to them without having to freeze any tracks, and with the buffer rate at just 256 samples - try this on a similarly-spec'd Windows machine and see what result you get.

I can't even be bothered to argue any further about this because you're missing the point of why people are amused, just to cause a confrontation about something you think you're cool for going against. If you can't see why many professionals use Macs, other than being too stupid to use a Windows machine (which is a stupid belief, considering the level of computer knowledge it takes to become a fully-proficient modern day studio engineer) and just buying whatever has the best advert, then you are obviously not someone who has been in many situations where you work at a high level.


As for the software thing - most of the 'industry standard' software is Mac-compatible, even though 'industry standard' is a stupid thing to measure with, but there are plenty of industry standard products that are Mac-only, and given the popularity of Windows machines over Mac ones in the overall computer market, that alone tears a whole in your software argument. How often have you heard someone complain about not having any good software because they're on a Mac? Aside from freeware pc-only plug-ins, which are becoming rarer now as many major freeware developers (like LePou/Poulin) have started porting and developing products for Mac, I've heard more people complain because they can't try out Logic Pro, than I've heard complaining that they can't use something that is PC-only.


Thank you. Macs are a lot more stable than Windows PC and have been a unanimous choice for music recording and graphic designing for a while now. I recommand you get Logic Studio as I've only had good comments from people using it and those same had Pro Tools before and probably won't touch it again..
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#28
Quote by axemanchris
For me, it is cost that prevents me from using a mac. I can replace my desktop three times over and still be ahead of the game compared to the cost of buying a mac.

Add to that the reality that, even if I replace a desktop PC every four years with a brand new one, at the end of year 8, I move onto my third brand new PC, which will be even cheaper than this year's, and probably four times more powerful, and the mac that I *could* have bought is now eight years old, and antiquated to being nearly useless.


Add to that again, that I can fix my own PCs with inexpensive parts off the shelf. I was in an Apple store about six months ago. Someone needed a hard drive replaced on their MacBook, and it was going to be $400. That's the price I paid for my PC laptop as a brand new purchase.

I haven't priced hard drives lately, but I'm betting I could get a decent hard drive for about $50 or thereabouts. I'm also just guessing here, but I'd bet that any Apple store would laugh me right out the front door if I asked for a hard drive for *anything* in a price range of under $100.

CT

+1 to this.

The price is a HUGE factor in why I have never, and probably never will, buy a Mac. They are great systems, but the fact that I have to spend 3-4 times the amount of money it'd cost me to make something comparable to their most expensive iMac, for the entry level one, is a bit ridiculous. I would love to have a Mac for the stability involved with them and recording, but the price vs. features you get on them is absolutely insane.

There is nothing different between a Mac and PC, other than the fact that Apple chooses which pieces of hardware to put in their systems. Aside from the custom designed motherboards (which are NOT made by Apple, and are really just slightly modified OEM mobos), Macs use the same hardware available to anyone building a custom PC - Except they charge you 5 times as much for it. Just look at the top of the line iMac - $200 to upgrade to a Core i7? $200 to double the RAM from 4GB to 8GB? $600 to go to 16GB! $150 to double your HDD to 2TB, or $500+ for a SSD. $1000 for a 27" Thunderbolt display!? The prices people will pay for these upgrades are absolutely ridiculous.

There is nothing special about a Mac. Apple just knows that their customers are willing to pay the premium, because they've bought into the business model that Apple has created. The Mac OS is a great operating system, don't get me wrong, but you can build a computer yourself, for nearly a third the price of an Apple, and run OSX on it - legally - and completely stable. It's even possible to run OSX stably on prebuilt PC laptops and desktops from HP, Dell, etc.

I would love to own a Mac someday (mainly because I LOVE Logic), but at the prices they charge for their hardware is highway robbery. It just saddens me that people are still buying into the high prices of them. When other companies are trying to lower prices, Apple seems like it's the only one who can actually raise them and still have people buy their products in the droves.

Walk around a college campus now days and 3/4ths of the students are carrying around $2000+ Mac laptops, yet they have the audacity to complain that they don't have enough money to pay for more important things. They tote them around as if they're a fashion statement. Quite depressing that Apple has effectively created a cult in young consumers. I'm sure if you asked them why they own a Mac, most of them wouldn't be able to give you any reasonable answer.

Anyway, sorry for the rant - Carry on chaps!
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#29
As much as I love my iMac, I definitely agree about the students-buying-Macbooks thing, because most of those people are buying them just as a status symbol. The majority of them have no need to spend so much on a machine they're just going to type up assignments/play around on in lectures, and they're probably the same people that buy each generation of iPod even though their last one still works great... I know people who still have months of their mobile phone contract left to pay, who have already bought the new iPhone despite paying two contracts now, just because they can't wait a few months!?

As far as the original argument though, most of this age-old debate reared its head because TS claimed Macs weren't powerful, not that Windows machines were more/less powerful, so our debate is a bit redundant as I'm sure we all agree Macs are capable machines that do work at least as well as great PC's do, but they are also priced rather highly by Apple - I'm saying no more either way!
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#30
Quote by MatrixClaw

Walk around a college campus now days and 3/4ths of the students are carrying around $2000+ Mac laptops, yet they have the audacity to complain that they don't have enough money to pay for more important things.


...like the music they listen to...



CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.