#1
Would like to hear some thoughts on Zakk Wyldes playing.

My thoughts: He seems to have a strong left hand, strong legato and vibrato (perhaps even a little too much, he seems to really abuse the strings hard with left hand)

But his right hand seems a bit crippled for playing shred properly. Obviously he hits all the right notes for what he does, but mostly when he goes to shred fast it looks spastic and I think this limits his speed and accuracy.

Thoughts?
#2
Quote by Jonashred
Would like to hear some thoughts on Zakk Wyldes playing.

My thoughts: He seems to have a strong left hand, strong legato and vibrato (perhaps even a little too much, he seems to really abuse the strings hard with left hand)

But his right hand seems a bit crippled for playing shred properly. Obviously he hits all the right notes for what he does, but mostly when he goes to shred fast it looks spastic and I think this limits his speed and accuracy.

Thoughts?


Agreed.

/end thread?
#3
Doesn't he just kind of hammer as many notes as possible as aggressively as possible?
Dude, where's my band?
#4
Pointless thread is pointless.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#6
Zakk Wylde has the claw of doom. His right wrist just looks locked up. It works for him, but I wouldn't recommend it.
#9
zakk wylde is a brilliant guitarist,u cant say he doesnt shred,probably looks awkward because he does pick all the notes,cant stand people that rip on his playing with the silly pinch harmonic comments,look what the guy has done,everything from country rock to metal and everything in between,great great songwriter.
#10
He definitely is really limited in his speed and accuracy because of the way he picks. That video that jimskeet posted has some really sloppy licks in the alternate picking runs. I'm not commenting on anything but his technique here. He is sloppy and doesn't really play particularly well. He's pretty fast, yeah, but his accuracy definitely leaves something to be desired and his picking technique should not be imitated.
#11
Quote by Geldin
his accuracy definitely leaves something to be desired


To be desired by who?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#12
It's a turn of phrase. Colloquial language, hardly meant to be taken literally like that. If you need me to be condescendingly literal, I meant that his technique is not particularly accurate and you can hear numerous mistakes in his playing.
#13
I understand that is it a colloquialism however I do think it raises a good point - Does he need, or does he even desire, better technique? Do his fans wish he could only be that tiny bit more defined in his 16th note triplet pentatonic runs?

The only people that would even realise, let alone care, that he could be any faster or cleaner are fans and practitioners of highly technical guitar playing. Guitar gymnastics enthusiasts and wizards of shred. Anoraks.

I couldn't hear numerous mistakes in his playing (it wasnt particularly inaccurate, ask me to play those same licks and ill show you 'particularly inaccurate'). Perhaps there were some slight imperfections but it didnt matter because it sounded cool. It was aggressive and fast and flashy and to most peoples ears it was almost virtuosic. Above all it was very heavy metal, very Zakk Wylde. Those imperfections are part of his style and I bet he wouldnt change that even if he could.

There becomes a point in the pursuit of perfect technique where it becomes a bit pointless, where you can express yourself brilliantly on your instrument and chasing those extra couple of notes per second is not going to be as important as playing actual music in front of actual people and getting paid actual money and drinking actual drink and putting actual parts of yourself inside actual females, actually.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#14
uh.... OK? What are you trying to say? That he doesn't want to change his technique despite its sloppiness? Cool. That doesn't really add to this conversation.

What I'm saying is an objective and inarguable statement: his technique is very, very imperfect. He makes a lot mistakes in that video and he seems to be using a lot of gain to cover that up. His picking hand is not well synchronized with his fretting hand, especially on his faster runs.

You're creating a false dichotomy in which you can either have good technique or be some ideal rock star. Not only is that an unsound argument, it's also only tangentially related to what this thread is discussing. In no way does claiming that playing one way will get you laid more than playing another have anything to do with analyzing the guy's technique (though in that argument, clearly the ultimate way to get laid is to play I-iV-V progressions in G major and singing pop song lyrics). If you have nothing to contribute, don't bother trying.

Also, Zakk was sober and married last I checked, so even the tangential nature of your claim is pretty suspect.
#15
Quote by Hydra150
The only people that would even realise, let alone care, that he could be any faster or cleaner are fans and practitioners of highly technical guitar playing. Guitar gymnastics enthusiasts and wizards of shred. Anoraks.


Yep, that's us. What's your point?

Quote by Hydra150
There becomes a point in the pursuit of perfect technique where it becomes a bit pointless, where you can express yourself brilliantly on your instrument and chasing those extra couple of notes per second is not going to be as important as playing actual music in front of actual people and getting paid actual money and drinking actual drink and putting actual parts of yourself inside actual females, actually.


Which is defined by the person who is learning and playing. He may think it is because he's fine with what he does but for others that's not enough. You can't just say it's pointless. You mentioned earlier in your post that very few people would notice if he was a bit more defined in his runs or if he was a bit faster... what if the music I hear in my head needs that little bit more speed and clarity, is chasing that goal still pointless just because you think it is?

I also feel like I should point out that, in a weird twist of fate, I was getting in to more bands and getting more action when I was practicing every day than I am now that I have other commitments a lot of the time. That notwithstanding, you're an ass for thinking that practicing for better technique and playing actual music are mutually exclusive.

If you're going to try and argue that constantly trying to better yourself is ever anything less than worth it, please, take it to the pit; here we like to be the best we can.
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#16
What Im trying to say is that he isnt that sloppy. That he sounds pretty good to me and to most heavy metal fans. To see him as 'sloppy' would probably demotivate some budding axe-slingers, who aspire to play like him. Setting the bar pretty high there. I was just saying that I didnt see so many mistakes in his playing (to be fair Ive watched the intro of that video a more few times while writing all this crap and I do know what youre talking about, but sometimes when he is picking extra notes between phrases and during slides etc (what you mught say is sloppy) that could be for musical effect)

Im not disagreeing that his technique isnt perfect, Im just pointing out that that isnt a bad thing. Im not creating a false dichotomy between good technique and being a good rock star, I was merely pointing out that sometimes the pursuit of the best technique can be taken to extremes, and all that time spent in the woodshed could have been spent more productively. But this hypothetical rockstar (or indeed Zakk Wylde) already has good technique, or even great technique - the difference between great technique and the kind of technical playing that gives shred anoraks wet dreams is not too much, and the better player is ultimately the one who plays better songs and chooses better notes, regardless of who can sweep the cleanest arps.

And I realise you were talking about this more objectively than I was, but Im not disagreeing with you, objectively, just adding my two cents that to most peoples ears he isnt as bad as youre implying so it doesnt really matter.

I do disagree with you that I have nothing to contribute. I contributed several paragraphs. Theyre up there ^. And then you discussed what I had to say. I enjoyed thinking of something to say and expressing my opinion, I like to think that you took pleasure in pointing the many ways in which I am wrong and hopefully someone enjoyed reading our exchange of ideas. Thats a successful thread for everyone involved if you ask me, and it didnt even veer too far off topic. Hurray!

And my suspicious claim of a tangential nature was not to be taken too seriously. Hence its tangential nature and suspicious overuse of the word 'actual', not to mention its obtuse way of implying coitus. However the tangent in question did not state that playing one way will get you laid more than playing another way, I was trying to say that being outside and playing gigs and all the phallic guitar waving on-stage and tomfoolery that comes afterwards is more likely to get you laid than not going out and instead having only a metronome and book of alt picking exercises for company. I bet Zakk knew this.


Edit:
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
That notwithstanding, you're an ass for thinking that practicing for better technique and playing actual music are mutually exclusive.


I dont believe I said that at all. If I did then I take that back because to say that would be retarded and would render many nights that I have spent with nothing but a metronome and a book of picking exercises pointless. Im just trying to have a discussion, but if opinions and conversations arent wanted here then Ill bare that in mind. But this is a forum, and TS was asking for our thoughts on Zakk Wylde (I think hes not too bad, and plays perfectly for the style). Was just sticking up for the wee guy who posted the link to the video and clearly though highly of Zakk. What if he was finally feeling happy with his playing, finally able to pull of an imitation of one of the signature licks of his biggest guitar hero, Sir Zakk of Wylde, only to be told that the man he aspires to be is himself a sloppy player, really limited his speed and accuracy. " ... but if uncle Zakk is a bad player, what does that make me ...? " he sobs into his epiphone buzzsaw gutar, his dreams and aspirations crushing down around him. Now how do you feel about yourself?

Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Yep, that's us. What's your point?

Just a subjective and somewhat arguable statement. Not making any real point there, except perhaps reminding lurkers that the people on this forum are very different from the people in the audience at gigs, that most people arent too judgemental of your playing and that you are perhaps better than you think you are - if they spend too much time with anoraks, that is. Like anorexic chicks being bombarded with ideas of skinny 'beautiful' people being the ideal, some guitarists who spend too much time around the internets and stuff will either find the standard of awesome players with 'ideal' technique to be motivating, in which case good for them, or may find it demotivating and depressing, in which case I hope they can keep it in perspective.

Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
what if the music I hear in my head needs that little bit more speed and clarity, is chasing that goal still pointless just because you think it is?

Then get back into the woodshed and practice dem arpeggios! I didnt mean to say that that would be pointless, but merely to point out that the average joe cant tell a fast lick from Zakk Wylde from a fast lick from Rustey Cooley. If you find it fulfilling to practice and to give a performance that extra bit of flair then thats awesome for you. Im not assaulting anyone here (although I notice I have been insulted), I want people to be as good as they wanna be. I wanna be able to play Scarified, but Im quite a way away from it right now. Wish me luck.


tl/dr: OLOL SHRED SUX, IT HAS NO FEELS
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Oct 22, 2011,
#17
first of all, to all people saying this thread is pointless.....

dude its a freaking forum where here to discuss shit

anywhoo

i really do love is style. when u watch him play he just screams vintage because its a very aggressive style though sloppy, he works with the sloppy-ness. im sure you have heard that tone comes from your fingers and theres a bunch coming from zakks.

between the blues shreds and heavy chorus riffing, you can tell he feels what he plays

*EDIT* after reading this thread a bit more.

wtf is perfect technique.... subjective thats what it is.
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Last edited by EspTro at Oct 23, 2011,
#18
"Getting laid more" and "being a rock star" are queer and wigger-like persuits, anyway that's another topic. I don't care for him personally or his music which I'm guessing is probably boring, but he is a good musician none the less.

This thread was about discussing his technique, and Geldin said it right mostly.

Quote by Hydra150
I couldn't hear numerous mistakes in his playing (it wasnt particularly inaccurate, ask me to play those same licks and ill show you 'particularly inaccurate').

Agreed. I wouldn't say he is sloppy, he seems pretty accurate, just spasticated-looking and limited with the right hand.

Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
He may think it is because he's fine with what he does but for others that's not enough.

He (Zakk Wylde) has personally commented that he strives to keep improving on guitar. So I would guess he would not be fine with it.

Quote by EspTro
first of all, to all people saying this thread is pointless.....

dude its a freaking forum where here to discuss shit

Amen! You said it perfect.
Last edited by Jonashred at Oct 23, 2011,
#19
I knew this was going to all go to shit but I still gave it a chance...also a warning for the homohpobic comment.
Actually called Mark!

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#20
Hydra1150


One shouldnt lie to make another feel better.

Zakk is quite slopy, but as Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet (not quoting, dont remember exact words), opinion of one knowledgable person has more value than thousands uneducated fools. I believe that was said about theater, but it surely applies here as well.

For what id call "perfect" technique - look up Muhammed Suicmez of necrophagist.

Accurate, clean as ****, notes sound so even it creates the sense of perfection (thinking ignominiouus and pale here), hes moderately fast as well (plus - DAT TONE! )
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