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#1
I see posts all the time hating on scooped-mid tones, and I'm bit perplexed on what exactly, or to what extent do the lack of mids start to bother these people. I realize that different amps have different voicings/eq ranges and whatnot.

I play around with my 6505+'s eq all the time, and I always arrive at the same assesment - it sounds best to me with the mids below 5, sometimes even around 2 with some stuff.

Right now I've got it set at 7, 4, 8 (high, mid, low, respectively) and it's a good tradeoff in terms of chordal clarity and single note/solo-type tone. When I step on my tubescreamer the highs really start to scream.

But anyway, I've tried more mids, backing the bass down a bit, and some of my chord progressions get a little muddy/can't quite hear the individual notes. Is this because my amp is already kind of mid-heavy?

Discuss...
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#2
Do you play in a band. The whole scooped issue is moot when playing by yourself. It does sound better scooped with just guitar... But when you try to play in a live situation you get lost.

Mids are too scooped when I can't hear you in the mix.
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#5
The 6505/5150 series has so much mids that even all the way off, it has more than most amps. At 4, you shouldn't have any problems - But if you're not playing with a band, who cares what it's set at?
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#6
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
maybe your mommy scooped you too much when you were younger


I'm not sure what that means, but it's possible, I suppose.
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#8
You'll notice real quick on stage, that with all the other sounds going on, you'll need to boost your mids to ... well... Mix... but yea.. playing alone your stage eq settings will be kinda yucky..
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#9
Quote by MatrixClaw
The 6505/5150 series has so much mids that even all the way off, it has more than most amps. At 4, you shouldn't have any problems - But if you're not playing with a band, who cares what it's set at?



Well, that explains a lot. I just keep hearing "don't scoop your mids, it'll sound terrible," and I don't find that to be the case with this amp, lol.

And no, I don't play in a band, but have jammed with friends in the past. (Not with this amp.) I shall not worry about it then...

What about for recording purposes? Are more mids needed there to cut through, or is that done in the mixing process?
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Last edited by KailM at Oct 24, 2011,
#10
when the bassist is playing and the drummer is playing, and you can't be heard regardless of how loud you are, it's too scooped.

Also i think some people group together "scooping" with the smiley face eq aka scooping mids, boosting bass and treble. this usually results in a lifeless fizzy tone devoid of any sort of positive characteristics. That is alo too scooped.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#11
Quote by greeny23
you can never be too scooped.


Yes, yes you can.

Like someone said earlier, if you can't be heard with the band, you're too scooped.
People like to scoop because it makes their tone sound better/ballsy.

Problem is, guitar is a mid frequency instrument, you scoop your mids, you won't be heard in live situations that easy. It's fine to scoop a bit, but when you go too far, then it's time for an intervention.
#12
even in recording you need mids, unless you have a very mids heavy amp, any scoopage is too much unless you're just by yourself, even then though, again unless it's a VERY mids driven amp, it just has no life to it. Mids are at 4-5 90% of the time, sometimes more on cleans.
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#13
Quote by Clay-man
Yes, yes you can.

Like someone said earlier, if you can't be heard with the band, you're too scooped.
People like to scoop because it makes their tone sound better/ballsy.

Problem is, guitar is a mid frequency instrument, you scoop your mids, you won't be heard in live situations that easy. It's fine to scoop a bit, but when you go too far, then it's time for an intervention.


trust me, you can NEVER be too scooped.
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#14
Tbh, hating on scooped mids has become a bandwagon thing.

I'm not a huge fan of scooped mids, but it certainly shines in some genres and contexts
#15
greeny is right. the fizzier and noisier the tone, the better! I mean that's why everyone loves toyroom effects!
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#16
Quote by InanezGuitars44
greeny is right. the fizzier and noisier the tone, the better! I mean that's why everyone loves toyroom effects!


oh snap
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#17
Sorry! I tried trolling you in that thread about peoples' favorite effects pedal brands and the thread got closed before anyone said anything about it lolol

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Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#18
Quote by InanezGuitars44
greeny is right. the fizzier and noisier the tone, the better! I mean that's why everyone loves toyroom effects!

I lol'd

Yeah, if you want fizzy tone and horrible quality, then go with toy room fx.


j/k

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#19
for me its too scooped when it doesnt have a certain lush quality. cant explain, but alot of you will know what im talking about i would think. on my jet city, i seem to like the mids really high with the bass relatively high as well. scooping makes it sound kind of harsh, but also clear in a certain respect, because of the high and low ends being raised, there is more oomph and it is clearer in the top end definition. but it also to my ears gets too grindy and kind of flat(not eq) sounding. mids add a certain sparkle and color that i go for, and they make your tone 3 dimensional and give it life compared to the "flat" ness of scooped mids.

i do not expect you to understand if you are not partially synesthetic lol
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#21
I never scoop because I like a good amount of mids.
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#22
6505's have a decently high mid range even when scooped. Just scoop to your ears liking. Its not a bad thing to scoop.... just frowned upon like fornicating in an airplane
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#23
I generally boost my mids on gainy amps, like my old single rectifier and my Laney VH100R. Those things get 'woofy'. Mids are generally the highest of my three-bands. Treble being the second highest, and I set my bass to like 3-6 depending.
#24
not boosted is too scooped
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#25
Only way I ever feel my tone is prominent enough in band situations is with mids lightly boosted, even on mid-heavy british amps.
#27
When the arrow thingy on the bass knob is all the way to the right and the arrow thingy on the mid knob is all the way to the left.
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#28
I personally don't like scooped midrange even before you disappear in the mix. There's a point very soon after I start turning down past a flat midrange that a guitar just sounds hollow and lifeless.
#29
As far as my carvin goes, I keep the eq at (presc, treb, mid, bass) 7.5, 7.5, 7, 6. Thats based on how good the clean channel sounds with those settings, the eq boost for the dirt channel is a frowny face, with the highest of the 5 freq's at 0, and the lowest of the lows being at 4.5, and the mids being around 9...
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#31
Quote by evhbrianmay
As far as my carvin goes, I keep the eq at (presc, treb, mid, bass) 7.5, 7.5, 7, 6. Thats based on how good the clean channel sounds with those settings, the eq boost for the dirt channel is a frowny face, with the highest of the 5 freq's at 0, and the lowest of the lows being at 4.5, and the mids being around 9...


Ah a carvin XV user. I owned a 212 for awhile and it had my favorite clean sound ever. Pretty damn good overdrive too. Just had to comment since you don't see these amps much on here and they are probably the best for certain styles for the insanely cheap used prices Ive seen them go for.
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#32
The only scooped sound I like is like a really thick fuzz for a good wall of sound type thing. Other than that, moar mids = moar tonezzzz
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#33
Quote by bluestratplayer
Ah a carvin XV user. I owned a 212 for awhile and it had my favorite clean sound ever. Pretty damn good overdrive too. Just had to comment since you don't see these amps much on here and they are probably the best for certain styles for the insanely cheap used prices Ive seen them go for.

No kidding! They're my favorite amp i've played through so far... And I'm a gear shop-a-holic.

And about the insanely cheap prices, I picked mine up for $280, new tubes and all
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#34
Even outside the context of sitting in a mix, in most cases I actually think uber-scooped eq sounds *thin*. It doesn't give balls at all, because the balls are actually more in the lower mids than the bass, and your highs are left without much harmonic "support" following them around.

The illusion of "balls" might be produced by boosting the bass in turn, but this more often than not will simply produce muddyness on lower notes. Basically, it will sound overwhelmingly muddy in the lower register, and otherwise thin when playing single-note lines.

I will grant though that different amps are voiced differently, and on an amp that is extremely mid-heavy to begin with, some moderate relative scooping might be ok.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Oct 24, 2011,
#35
personally, i like alot of midrange. i modded my big muff to get rid of the scoop, and i crank the mids on my sunn, bass is usually at 8 or 9, mids on 10 or near it, and treble at 4 or 5. i have liked sounds ive gotten with the mids slightly lower than bass and treble tho. (e.g. treble and bass at 7, mids at 6 or 5).
#36
also, a lot of plyers that scoop their midsm, are also boosting the mids with a tubescreamer. Just let your ear guide you.
#37
Since some people are describing their approximate go-to EQ settings on their amps, mine are almost the exact opposite of a scoop:

Clean Channel: Treble 5, Mid 7, Bass 1, Presence 4.
Dirt Channel: Treble 7, Mid 7, Bass 0, Presence 3; "thick" switch engaged.

Keep in mind, my amp is a Lonestar Classic - one of the most naturally warm amps out there IMO. These settings might sound horrible on other amps. But for my amp, it still sounds plenty ballsy with the bass all the way down and I don't really need those frequencies when there's a bass. The "balls" are pretty much naturally in the amp and are enhanced by the mid knob, and any possible loss of desired low end returns when you increase the master volume.

So, with the equipment I've often been using, my philosophy has been to boost mids and kill bass, on the grounds that it balances out; *any* scoop is too scooped.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Oct 25, 2011,
#38
Scooped mids are good for a heavy rhythm tone. It doesn't get annoying until your mids get below 3, depending upon which amp of course, 4 should be fine. Leads tend to get annoying with scooped bids, especially with your treble that high.

I've ended up narrowing down my favorite lead/rhythm tone to Bass: 8 Mids: 7 Treble: 6 and a 10 band eq with a mild mid range hump.
#40
My TS15H tube head only has dials for Bass and Treble, mids are permanently set to HONK which is just how I like them Boost function adds even more of that lush midrange. Perfect for old school rock n roll in my books (Y)
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