#1
while playing bach's 40th symphony on a guitar with distortion on may sound like it is neoclassical music, it's not which leaves the question, what is it?

i know neoclassical guitarists like yngwie malmsteen listened to classical pieces and applied it to their own work. but it has to run deeper than that

any thoughts?
#4
Quote by 3OddOnes
bach's 40th symphony


my favourite bach piece.....
#6
Quote by gavk
my favourite bach piece.....


Nah man, the Scherzo from Symhpony 38 is where it's at.
#7
Quote by 3OddOnes
bach's 40th symphony


Anyone have a link to this? I can only find Mozart's 40th Symphony.
#8
Quote by xHellbound
Anyone have a link to this? I can only find Mozart's 40th Symphony.
Symphonies did not exist in Bach's time. Gavk and Griff are joking, there was some crafty wording from Griff which you might pick up on. Mozart's 40th symphony is worth a listen though, it's pretty refreshing compared to a lot of his compositions.

Griff, was that intentional? If so, kudos.
Last edited by Jesse Clarkson at Oct 30, 2011,
#9
yeah, i was just throwing random words together when i was putting the questions together

Symphonies did not exist in Bach's time

thanks for telling me this, i don't have much of a classical knowledge yet.
#10
Quote by 3OddOnes
thanks for telling me this, i don't have much of a classical knowledge yet.
I may have to eat my words here. There may have been some written during his life, but they weren't widely accepted and were probably considerably different to the symphonies we know today. Someone else can hopefully clarify for me. I think it was Haydn who popularised them.

So is it now time for me to rave about Chopin and Prokofiev yet? Someone bump the classical thread.
#11
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
Symphonies did not exist in Bach's time. Gavk and Griff are joking, there was some crafty wording from Griff which you might pick up on. Mozart's 40th symphony is worth a listen though, it's pretty refreshing compared to a lot of his compositions.

Griff, was that intentional? If so, kudos.


I sorta picked up on the sarcasm, but I wasn't quite sure. Thanks for verifying it, lol.
#13
Symphonies did exist in Bach's time, but he never wrote anything close. They originate in the 1730s in Italy (specifically Milan with guys like Sammartini) and they were typically very much like Italian opera overtures. You wouldn't really recognize them as "symphonies", but that's where the term and form originates. The first recognizable symphonies come with Stamitz in the court of Mannheim in the 50s, where they developed the Italian symphony, adding a fourth movement (minuet and trio) and the form and orchestration expanded (addition of winds/horns). Also notable: the Mannheim orchestra invented the crescendo. But ultimately Haydn really solidifies the form as we know it today, specifically by the time of his middle works. I wouldn't say Haydn popularised the symphony as it was already very popular, but he solidified the form which we now accept.

Little history lesson for everyone who probably doesn't care

Also, Griff... Intentional or not...
#14
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
I may have to eat my words here. There may have been some written during his life, but they weren't widely accepted and were probably considerably different to the symphonies we know today. Someone else can hopefully clarify for me. I think it was Haydn who popularised them.

So is it now time for me to rave about Chopin and Prokofiev yet? Someone bump the classical thread.


I just came back from Prokofiev's second violin concerto (and also Rachmaninoff's first symphony).

Great stuff.
#16
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Symphonies did exist in Bach's time, but he never wrote anything close. They originate in the 1730s]


Bach died 1715.

It was all about Suites in Bachs lifetime.
Pretty sure he would have written a symphony if there was such a thing
the only form he didn't write in was opera.
#17
Uhhh...

Neoclassical music is the modern revival of the classical style.

Neoclassical metal is metal with a somewhat "classical" sound, i.e. harmonic and melodic minor scales.

If I were to give my honest opinion... technical death metal has more in common with classical than neoclassical metal does, since a lot of the music in TDM transcends the use of ordinary scales. But that's a bit off topic...
Carpe diem; Seize the day.

Just be.

Scales are notes, not shapes, boxes, or patterns.
#18
I think handling the V-Im cadence is one of them most "needed" things/mechanisms in the 80's neo-classical genre. It's that harmonic minor (dim7 arps and aug arps) over the V chord resolving to the Im's Natural Minor scale that's at the heart of the style.
#19
Quote by 3OddOnes
while playing bach's 40th symphony on a guitar with distortion on may sound like it is neoclassical music, it's not which leaves the question, what is it?


Throw a sweep in there and you can call it neo-classical.


Quote by 3OddOnes

i know neoclassical guitarists like yngwie malmsteen listened to classical pieces and applied it to their own work. but it has to run deeper than that

any thoughts?



this is how deep it runs....

Play Bach's 40th symphony on a guitar with distortion at a speed that would be considered impressive (or at least include some fast licks) = neoclassical. Sweeps would definitely put you firmly in neo-classical land.

NEOCLASSICAL:

- draws from classical musical (this gives it "credibility")
- has to be impressive (with speed and/or groundbreaking technique)
shred is gaudy music
#20
Although sometimes it doesn't seem like neo-classical rock or metal guys are authentically drawing from classical so much as attempting to imitate it with some simple formulas (like frequently using harmonic minor runs and diminished arpeggios, and often hanging around I and V in a minor key). You rarely hear any counterpoint in the music, or too much adventurosity with harmonic movement. It's my opinion based on various interviews and listenings that Yngwie, the virtual creator of the genre, actually doesn't know his music theory as it relates to classical that much.

There are certainly some more "deep" neoclassical guys (more deserving of the name in a sense) than Yngwie though, who seem to have a solid background in classical music both in terms of theory and playing - and these people usually overlap more with prog music in general. Such players and composers don't simply come off as a rock/metal guy attempting to imitate classical music almost entirely as a grasp in the dark, or as over-formulaeic as Yngwie has become IMO.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Nov 1, 2011,