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#1
The Troubles of Northern Ireland is something that has fascinated me for a couple of years now but as an American, I know very little about it.

I recently watched Bloody Sunday (2002 film) and it was quite a bit informative as well as being very moving. But I had some questions which I was hoping could be answered.

I doubt that there are many people on this forum who were alive during the heights of the Troubles (which I'm assuming were b/t the 1960s-70s) but my question is how much has the conflict between the IRA/Unionists/Nationalists impacted Northern Ireland. As in, was it something that basically everybody was involved in on some level or another? Was violence something that was common day-to-day? Has there been more recent violence?

I'm really looking for the responses of Irish/N. Irish/British from a personal level. I'm aware I could Wikipedia this subject but it doesn't give me the personal stance, just big picture/encyclopedic.

Some other questions: does anyone have any personal stories about protests or being involved in violence? anyone have any family members involved at all?
GEAR
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#2


Being 17 and from the South-East, I know nothing of the Troubles. With regard to the image above, you probably know who he is if you've been looking into the troubles; lets just say that in a recent tv presidential debate, he wouldn't admit to the fact that the IRA killings were murder... Also, Bloody Sunday is a teeny bit sensational just a fyi.

But yeah, I know nothing of the troubles but there are a few ug'ers who are better informed than myself.
Last edited by conor-figgy at Oct 30, 2011,
#3
The trouble was much longer than the 10 years. It calmed down in the late 90's and has started to pick up again (albeit not as often as before). I remember living there in the 90's and you would see IRA with weapons all over the place.
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#4
Quote by conor-figgy


Being 17 and from the South-East, I know nothing of the Troubles. With regard to the image above, you probably know who he is if you've been looking into the troubles; lets just say that in a recent tv presidential debate, he wouldn't admit to the fact that the IRA killings were murder... Also, Bloody Sunday is a teeny bit sensational just a fyi.

But yeah, I know nothing of the troubles but there are a few ug'ers who are better informed than myself.

What IRA killings are you referring to?
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#5
Bloody Sunday isn't really representative of what actually happened during the Troubles, which mostly consisted of the IRA blowing up and shooting hundreds of British and Irish people. It doesn't really have a major impact these days. There are occasional bombs/bomb scares and the odd shooting, but day to day life continues as normal. I suppose a lot of people are still pretty bitter about certain things, some most justifiably than others.

EDIT: Just to give you an idea:

Responsible party No.
Republican paramilitary groups 2057
Loyalist paramilitary groups 1019
British security forces 363
Persons unknown 82
Irish security forces 5
Total 3526


EDIT EDIT: That did not work well.
Last edited by Pagan-Pie at Oct 30, 2011,
#7
I'd imagine there would be violence pretty much everyday, but maybe not everywhere. My guess is that they occupied streets and slowly crept through them trying to gain territory but citizens were armed and of course the IRA had the more front line duty of resisting.

All I've got to say is always respect those who fight for their country. All thst stuff that happened in northern Ireland is truly touching. Having the opportunity to fight for your country, rights, freedoms.... is something that you can only imagine, they actually lived it.


and now, an awesome tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9D38J0yH9w
#8
Quote by metalblaster
I'd imagine there would be violence pretty much everyday, but maybe not everywhere. My guess is that they occupied streets and slowly crept through them trying to gain territory but citizens were armed and of course the IRA had the more front line duty of resisting.

All I've got to say is always respect those who fight for their country. All thst stuff that happened in northern Ireland is truly touching. Having the opportunity to fight for your country, rights, freedoms.... is something that you can only imagine, they actually lived it.


and now, an awesome tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9D38J0yH9w


Are you saying what the IRA do/did is a good thing?
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#9
I take it that the IRA isn't liked that much, which is a bit of a contrast to the freedom-fighting group that I've seen them portrayed as. The average citizen of somewhere like say Belfast, what would they have to say about the IRA as a whole?
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#11
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I take it that the IRA isn't liked that much, which is a bit of a contrast to the freedom-fighting group that I've seen them portrayed as. The average citizen of somewhere like say Belfast, what would they have to say about the IRA as a whole?


I think that even most Republicans these days would admit that indiscriminately murdering civilians for completely unattainable political ends is a bad thing to do. No sane person looks back at the Troubles with nostalgia.
#12
Quote by Bastard Son
Are you saying what the IRA do/did is a good thing?


I'm just saying whoever fought for their rights and political presence and whatnot had every right to and that's something to be proud of and it's something I respect.
#13
I had family members die in it, one of whom died while making a bomb...
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#14
Quote by conor-figgy
Oh fuck you.


ok.......?


Not everyone likes the same song as I do. How surprising?
#15
Quote by metalblaster
I'm just saying whoever fought for their rights and political presence and whatnot had every right to and that's something to be proud of and it's something I respect.


Where are you from? I'm guessing America.

//static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/news/gallery/2007/dec/19/2/LI15369@Royal-Ulster-Consta-1258.jpg" alt="">

Is this something to be proud of?
#16
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I had family members die in it, one of whom died while making a bomb...

Bomb making for the IRA?

How did other family members die, if you don't mind me asking. If you do, then I don't mind you not answering.
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#17
Quote by metalblaster
ok.......?


Not everyone likes the same song as I do. How surprising?

It's not just the song, it's what it means. You get retards all around this country singing stupid rebel songs when they know nothing of what happened and weren't even slightly involved. It's not as simple as ''fighting for freedom''. The troubles weren't as simple as fighting for freedom; they revolved around sectarianism as well as other things.
Last edited by conor-figgy at Oct 30, 2011,
#18
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Bomb making for the IRA?

How did other family members die, if you don't mind me asking. If you do, then I don't mind you not answering.

Shot.

Ya, bomb making for the IRA in the early 70s, he burned to death, it was pretty horrible by all accounts.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
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#20
Quote by conor-figgy

Being 17 and from the South-East, I know nothing of the Troubles. With regard to the image above, you probably know who he is if you've been looking into the troubles; lets just say that in a recent tv presidential debate, he wouldn't admit to the fact that the IRA killings were murder... Also, Bloody Sunday is a teeny bit sensational just a fyi.


The IRA admittedly did carry out a lot of murders, but you simply can't say that all or even most IRA killings were "murders".

Quote by Pagan-Pie
Where are you from? I'm guessing America.

Is this something to be proud of?


That was the Bullshit IRA.
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#21
Quote by Pagan-Pie
Where are you from? I'm guessing America.

//static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/news/gallery/2007/dec/19/2/LI15369@Royal-Ulster-Consta-1258.jpg" alt="">

Is this something to be proud of?


Ok clearly you don't get anything of what I said. People fighting for their country? That's wrong? And did I say it was in regards specifically to the IRA blowing shit up everywhere? ahhhh, exactly.

And you're going to try to contradict me with that song I posted, even though it's just a song that I like just because I like that old-fashioned Irish stuff?

And yes, I am from ''America'', actually from North America, not South America or Central America.


Jesus christ man. Captain hothead over here.
#22
Quote by 23dannybhoy23
The IRA admittedly did carry out a lot of murders, but you simply can't say that all or even most IRA killings were "murders".

Sorry, I was just referring to the frontline presidential debate topic, my bad, phrased a bit wrongly but I think I cleared it up in my post after that.
#23
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Shot.

Ya, bomb making for the IRA in the early 70s, he burned to death, it was pretty horrible by all accounts.


So I'm assuming that one was more likely to die due to IRA reasons (shootings, bombings, etc.) than from the hands of the British paramilitary or unionists or whatever they are called.
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#24
Quote by metalblaster
Ok clearly you don't get anything of what I said. People fighting for their country? That's wrong? And did I say it was in regards specifically to the IRA blowing shit up everywhere? ahhhh, exactly.

And you're going to try to contradict me with that song I posted, even though it's just a song that I like just because I like that old-fashioned Irish stuff?

And yes, I am from ''America'', actually from North America, not South America or Central America.


Jesus christ man. Captain hothead over here.


Exactly when did anyone 'fight for their country' during the Troubles? Anything pre-1969 doesn't count.

Furthermore, who can legitimately claim that Northern Ireland is 'their' 'country'? That's what the problem was.
#25
Quote by 23dannybhoy23
The IRA admittedly did carry out a lot of murders, but you simply can't say that all or even most IRA killings were "murders".


'Political assassination?' Death in 'battle'?


That was the Bullshit IRA.


As opposed to the super awesome friendly Provos?
#28
Both sides indiscriminately killed each other. My grandfather was on the IRA hit list, both my uncle and father were told to stay away from his home in case they were mistaken for him and killed (he died from cancer in the end).
My father was (and still is) part-time for the RUC (now PSNI) and a long time family home is literally yards from the Finucane home.
I can see above some people already arguing and its despicable. We're long past this so quit it now.
It doesn't weigh heavily in the minds of us here in Belfast, even though the troubles (as someone pointed out) carried on solidly until the Good Friday Agreement.
The 2 main frames of mind would be Irish Nationalist / Republican and British Loyalist / Unionist.
Both sides carried out an array of punishment beatings, shootings, bombings etc. A well know fact is that Belfast has the best knee clinics in the world, given the amount of work that went into repairs those that had been shot or drilled out in "kneecappings"
It's not something we recall fondly and any scummer that identifies with a paramilitary organisation these days is normally shunned by a local community.

Questions?
Grammar Nazi.
#29
Inb4 the mods close this because they prefer the pitmonkeys to only discuss sex and rating the above user's avatar.
#30
London in the 1990s was an enormous target. I remember bombs going off at my local shopping centre and everyone reacting as though it was a really common thing.

The IRA just wanted to kill and maim indiscriminately, most Londoners have nothing to do with The Troubles.
#31
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
London in the 1990s was an enormous target. I remember bombs going off at my local shopping centre and everyone reacting as though it was a really common thing.

The IRA just wanted to kill and maim indiscriminately, most Londoners have nothing to do with The Troubles.


I believe their rationale was to raise awareness of the "plight" of the Northern Irish amongst the British public. That's why they killed Mountbatten.
#32
Quote by Pagan-Pie
'Political assassination?' Death in 'battle'?


Yup.

As opposed to the super awesome friendly Provos?


Didn't say they were super awesome or friendly.

Quote by conor-figgy
Sorry, I was just referring to the frontline presidential debate topic, my bad, phrased a bit wrongly but I think I cleared it up in my post after that.


Oh, didn't see that Well, he did say that the deaths are considered to be murders and he "wouldn't disagree with that."

To be honest, I do think McGuiness should have outrightly admitted that the IRA made a lot of mistakes and killed and injured some people who did not deserve it. Even the British have, in a very limited way, done that.
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#33
Quote by kerrang
Both sides indiscriminately killed each other. My grandfather was on the IRA hit list, both my uncle and father were told to stay away from his home in case they were mistaken for him and killed (he died from cancer in the end).
My father was (and still is) part-time for the RUC (now PSNI) and a long time family home is literally yards from the Finucane home.
I can see above some people already arguing and its despicable. We're long past this so quit it now.
It doesn't weigh heavily in the minds of us here in Belfast, even though the troubles (as someone pointed out) carried on solidly until the Good Friday Agreement.
The 2 main frames of mind would be Irish Nationalist / Republican and British Loyalist / Unionist.
Both sides carried out an array of punishment beatings, shootings, bombings etc. A well know fact is that Belfast has the best knee clinics in the world, given the amount of work that went into repairs those that had been shot or drilled out in "kneecappings"
It's not something we recall fondly and any scummer that identifies with a paramilitary organisation these days is normally shunned by a local community.

Questions?


What is the general political sentiment these days in N Ireland in regards to occupation/separation/etc?

And thanks for the really great post. Most informative one yet.
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#34
Quote by Pagan-Pie
I believe their rationale was to raise awareness of the "plight" of the Northern Irish amongst the British public. That's why they killed Mountbatten.


Is that why they put nail bombs by the childrens' playground in Hyde Park too? Or nail bombs in the Soho pub district? Or blew up part of Canary Wharf?

I don't think any of those things did them any favours in gaining support amongst Londoners for their plight.
#35
Quote by 23dannybhoy23
Yup.


Got any examples of that? Seeing as all the killings were unlawful and therefore murder since there was no state of war.

Didn't say they were super awesome or friendly.


So what was your point? I could have used an example of a Provo bombing just as effectively.

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Is that why they put nail bombs by the childrens' playground in Hyde Park too? Or nail bombs in the Soho pub district? Or blew up part of Canary Wharf?

I don't think any of those things did them any favours in gaining support amongst Londoners for their plight.


You don't have to convince me that they were bastards. I was just offering something of an explanation.
Last edited by Pagan-Pie at Oct 30, 2011,
#36
Quote by Pagan-Pie
Exactly when did anyone 'fight for their country' during the Troubles? Anything pre-1969 doesn't count.

Furthermore, who can legitimately claim that Northern Ireland is 'their' 'country'? That's what the problem was.

*facepalm*

Wow, I'm not gonna try and explain the obvious simplicity of that. And I'm really not even gonna write you a 6000 word post on all this, it`s actually not even worth it.

Take care bud...
#37
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
So I'm assuming that one was more likely to die due to IRA reasons (shootings, bombings, etc.) than from the hands of the British paramilitary or unionists or whatever they are called.

Kind of. My Uncle killed himself by a mistake while making the bomb; he did however run outside and clear the street of children etc, while on fire. It was just after Christmas so loads of kids were around playing and shit.
Being in the IRA kind of made you more likely to get killed in general.


These are apparently the death tolls:

Republican paramilitary groups 2057
Loyalist paramilitary groups 1019
British security forces 363
Persons unknown 82
Irish security forces 5
Total 3526
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#38
Quote by metalblaster
*facepalm*

Wow, I'm not gonna try and explain the obvious simplicity of that. And I'm really not even gonna write you a 6000 word post on all this, it`s actually not even worth it.

Take care bud...


No, you just don't know what you're talking about and now you're furiously backpedaling from the implications of your first posts in this thread. Even if you want a united Ireland (as I do), there is no way you could legitimately argue that the thugs of the IRA or the UDA or the UVF were fighting for 'their country'. To argue that is to argue that Al Qaeda are legitimate in claiming to represent most Muslims.

EDIT ^ Paddy, those are the numbers killed by each group.
#39
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
London in the 1990s was an enormous target. I remember bombs going off at my local shopping centre and everyone reacting as though it was a really common thing.

The IRA just wanted to kill and maim indiscriminately, most Londoners have nothing to do with The Troubles.


They've been trying to blow up my local bridge for more than 70 years now. It's sort of become tradition >_>
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#40
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Kind of. My Uncle killed himself by a mistake while making the bomb; he did however run outside and clear the street of children etc, while on fire. It was just after Christmas so loads of kids were around playing and shit.
Being in the IRA kind of made you more likely to get killed in general.


These are apparently the death tolls:

Republican paramilitary groups 2057
Loyalist paramilitary groups 1019
British security forces 363
Persons unknown 82
Irish security forces 5
Total 3526


That's rough, your uncle's way.

It would seem that the Republican movement caused the most over all death.
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