#1
ok im no guitar expert, now what from what i just learned like recently im guessing thatwhen playing over a song/backing track or making a song , using all the modes in a song doesnt go well right? , if modes are type of feeling lol then ur song is gonna have crazy mood swings in the course of the song and it'll be hard to tell what kind of emotion ur tryng to create other then bi polar music

so ive been playing the natural minor scale for alil over a month and id try to play it all over the neck and didnt even know i was playing through the modes

first question:
are there few modes that sound good together? if so could u list some off the bat

2nd question:
if its recomended that u should play a minor scale over a minor progression
and a major over a minor progression then , should one also be recomended to play a minor mode over a minor progression and a major mode over a major progression?


minor modes for example - phrigian,dorian, Aeolian, locryian<-yuck

major modes - mixolydian, Ionian, Lydian
"its not the destination.... so much as the journey" one once said
Last edited by Marqway at Oct 30, 2011,
#2
There is a mode sticky. Read it.

You are confused with modes. To start with, when playing the natural minor scale across the neck you were not playing other modes.

You don't mix modes. So there is no answer to your first question.

As for your second question. You play a mode over a modal progression (which will tend to be a vamp or a drone note)
#3
Well it depends. I don't think there's something "recommended" even from a sole theorical point of view. The kind of third you choose will just create a different effect, another impression. Just look at rockabilly standards : they are essentially based on a major key, but many licks from them use a minor mode (often the dorian one), cause it helps creating this sort of "sassy" soloing voicing. But if you try to play a major mode over this kind of song (like the mixolydian one, since it has common sixth with the dorian one), then you see it will sound different, a bit more genuine. Sometimes you have even both, with pentatonic licks that play the two thirds in a row.
#4
ty

upping
"its not the destination.... so much as the journey" one once said
#5
Do know know the major scale? Do you know how it's formed? Do you understand how chords are formed? Do you know all the notes on your fretboard? Do you understand what key signatures are or how they're formed? Are you playing with a jazz band over a modal vamp? Do you understand what that means? Have you read the sticky?

If the answer is "no" to any of these question, DON'T WORRY ABOUT MODES. Starting to get kind of sick of all these threads about modes....
#6
Quote by stratdax
Starting to get kind of sick of all these threads about modes....


yea me too, funny thing is my last thread all I had ask for was if one should learn more scales... somehow topic drifted from its root note lol
"its not the destination.... so much as the journey" one once said
#7
Quote by Marquay
somehow topic drifted from its root note lol


first question:
are there few modes that sound good together? if so could u list some off the bat

On a m7 chord vamp, it's common to blend all 3 minor scales and Dorian together. Of course there's some overlap though.

To be honest though, if you want to blend modes over a single chord vamp, you may as well go ahead with some polymodal chromaticism.
Last edited by mdc at Oct 31, 2011,
#8
Answer to #1...

yes, there a a ton of "modal" tunes that use two Dorian scales a min3rd apart. Something like this:

||: Gm7 | Gm7 | Bbm7 | Bm7 :|| (make sure you repeat, you need to play through the turnaround)

You would use the G Dorian scale for Gm7 and the Bb Dorian scale for Bbm7. Play this over and over and over and over making the transition between each scale right on the 1 beat of each chord new measure...IOW, nail the change! And again, do this endlessly. Get it in you head as well as under your fingers. It will take a bit to first learn it, and then even longer to manage it on the fly without thinking and only listening.

Next...The turnaround is VERY important...if you draw those two scales together as one scale on a blank fretboard you'll see large chunks of symmetrical/diminished scales in parallel 4th's! At the time of the turnaround, or the transition of Bbm7->Gm7 you can utilize both scales together to create some great outside lines that resolve perfectly to Gm7.

Answer #2...

All songs are in one Key, but not all songs stay strictly within the Key, but do stay true to the "Tonic" of the Key...what this means is, let's say our "Key" is A Major, but our progression is (and I'm just making this up):

||: A | C | G | D :||

Knowing Diatonic Theory we know that A and D are definitely in the Key of A Major, but where do the C and G come from? They are "diatonically correct" so to speak.

These two chords are "borrowed" from the Key of A Minor.

When you look at thing from the "tonic of A" you most of the time that everything in a song relates to the tonic of A, meaning A Major chords, and A Minor chords can be used together to create songs.

So, a song in the "Key of A Major" could consist of chord from both A Major and A Minor or...

A Major = A Bm C#m D E F#m G#mb5 A
A Minor = Am Bmb5 C Dm Em F G Am

From there you can plainly see that A and D are borrowed from A Major and C and G are borrowed from A Minor.

If you are not familiar with this idea it can be a huge eye opener as it's at the basic of most famous rock and folk tunes.

Looking at things this way scale wise you could actually think of it as changing from the A Major scale to the A Minor scale during soloing.

Here's another example:

||: Fmaj7 | E7 | Amaj7 | Amaj7 :||

You can go "the scale route" and play F Lydian, E Mixolydian, A Major if you want or you can simply say that Fmaj7 is from A Minor and E 7 and Amaj7 are from A Major.

Try playing/soloing over that progression by playing in A Natural Minor for the Fmaj7 chord and then A Major for the E7 and Amaj7 chord. You'll find way more freedom and direction a in your playing than trying to manage it with three individual scales...and it will more than likely sound "musical" rather than "scalular".

The more you get in tune to this idea the more you'll see tunes that are "toggling" from either Major->Minor or Minor->Major against the same tonic. You'll find the examples/number of songs are endless.
Last edited by MikeDodge at Nov 1, 2011,
#9
Quote by Marqway
ok im no guitar expert, now what from what i just learned like recently im guessing thatwhen playing over a song/backing track or making a song , using all the modes in a song doesnt go well right?


Modes don't work that way, and aren't understood that way.

Quote by Marqway
, if modes are type of feeling lol then ur song is gonna have crazy mood swings in the course of the song and it'll be hard to tell what kind of emotion ur tryng to create other then bi polar music


A thorough understanding of Modes will actually answer that question. You are going about this the wrong way.

Quote by Marqway
so ive been playing the natural minor scale for alil over a month and id try to play it all over the neck and didnt even know i was playing through the modes


You weren't, that's why. Your understanding is, and continues to be grossly misplaced and incorrect, based upon what youve been posting. Its like you are trying to get knowledge and ignoring wisdom to use it. They go together, but you seem to be off trying to get the "gist of things". Like Play this, do this here, and music doesn't work like that.

Quote by Marqway
first question:
are there few modes that sound good together? if so could u list some off the bat


Modes don't work that way.

Quote by Marqway
2nd question:
if its recomended that u should play a minor scale over a minor progression
and a major over a minor progression then , should one also be recomended to play a minor mode over a minor progression and a major mode over a major progression?

minor modes for example - phrigian,dorian, Aeolian, locryian<-yuck

major modes - mixolydian, Ionian, Lydian


These would be Accidentals, regardless of what you "call" them, still an example of ignorance, and no wisdom to understand the questions you are seeking the answers to.

I know posting this isn't going to help, because you seem set on your ways to do things without understanding them, as if this stuff could be done short hand, but maybe someone else reading this response will understand what I'm saying.

Best,

Sean
#10
sean is right, you seem to have confused modal playing with accidentals and scale shapes on the fret board.

its a pretty common mistake though, almost everyone has done it so don't feel too bad about it. there is a lot of wrong/misleading info on the web regarding modes. i think the confusion comes from people listing the shapes of the diatonic scale with modal names. its done that way to show the connection to the major scale, but it's not modal playing to play different major scale shapes.

however you can mix modes. modes are usually played over a drone note or chord or some sort of vamp or "progression" of two chords. once you get into 3 chords a key starts to show and modes don't have a key. but anyways, if you are playing over a drone, then there is nothing stopping you from mixing modes.

however, there is nothing wrong with using the modal shapes and patterns to organize your accidentals. if it helps you then more power to you. i do it all the time. but i understand that im just using a pattern and not playing that mode.
#11
Okay, recently we've had some kind of modal plague. It's getting on our tits quite frankly.

The main problem is that people without solid foundations try to build on them and then they ask questions which are impossible to answer helpfully.

Before you ask anything about modes, you must be absolutely stone cold certain about -

Intervals (names and sounds)
Scale formation
Diatonic chords
Relative major and minor keys
Chord progressions and how they create and resolve tension
Chord extensions

... and how the above apply to the fretboard and playing.

Once you have that down, check out these threads -

The big daddy - Corwinoid on modes - http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=187159

Colohue also did a wordy but pretty good series on modes starting here - http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/colu..._backstory.html

Darren with some fairly easy to follow mode lessons with examples so that you can hear the results -

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=997405
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=999592

And finally, here's a really great site with lots of modal licks to really get the sounds of each mode into your head - http://www.guitarshredshow.com/

Okay! Now, if people just try to jump in at the deep end with these mode things, tbh, if you can't even play a few solid major key progressions and explain why they're solid - I'm just gonna close the thread with a "you're not ready for modes" and a .

Glad we understand each other, peace out.
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