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#1
Would the following work?



the yellow thing is a semi-permeable membrane, AKA only water can pass through, not salt . Because of diffusion/osmosis, the water will go through the membrane to the right side to balance out the percentage of salt in the two substances. If we add some kind of mill to the right side, I think that gives us energy at no cost (diffusion goes naturally, no energy needed) when the water level rises and we simply let gravity do the rest.

Why would that (not) work?
Last edited by vagelier at Nov 1, 2011,
#2
Free energy, physics-wise, is impossible. Look up perpetual motion machines (and why they can't exist).
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#3
That's what I thought, but I simply don't get why this wouldn't work.
#4
Quote by rockingamer2
Free energy, physics-wise, is impossible. Look up perpetual motion machines (and why they can't exist).



impossible or highly improbable?

Edit: OT i dont know why it wouldn't work but there is probably a reason. would the saltwater not corrode the spinning watermill thingy?
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Last edited by Harvey Swick at Nov 1, 2011,
#5
Quote by Harvey Swick
impossible or highly improbable?

Impossible.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


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#6
Quote by Harvey Swick
impossible or highly improbable?

Impossible.
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#7
Quote by rockingamer2
Impossible.

I don't want to sound like a conspirator, but it wouldn't be the first time the sheer foundation of our physics turned out to be wrong.

I'm not saying I just defeated all energy laws, nor that that will likely happen, but it is not "impossible".
#8
Quote by rockingamer2
Impossible.



how do we know?
can you present me with some links or a mathematical formula that i am unlikely to understand?
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#10
Quote by Harvey Swick
how do we know?
can you present me with some links or a mathematical formula that i am unlikely to understand?

Look at the wiki article on perpetual motion machines.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


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#12
Quote by Dudeinator
Energy is converted, not created, so the idea of free energy cannot exist.


E=mc^2, you just wait.
#13
Quote by Dudeinator
Energy is converted, not created, so the idea of free energy cannot exist.



where did that "original" energy come from? the big bang? is there "pure" energy that has never been converted?
if "Original Energy" came from the big bang, is me walking across the room, or a blade of grass, part of the continual energy brought on by the big bang?

is life just one huge explosion?
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#14
The concentrations equalise, and no more water will flow.

In your picture, it looks like you lose salt water over the treadmill, meaning this will happen very fast.

Quote by Harvey Swick
where did that "original" energy come from? the big bang? is there "pure" energy that has never been converted?
if "Original Energy" came from the big bang, is me walking across the room, or a blade of grass, part of the continual energy brought on by the big bang?

is life just one huge explosion?


Total energy of the universe = 0
#16
The turbine will actually be submerged in the water. True there will be a difference in water level on both sides but the system will be in equilibrium because the pressure due to the excess water on one side will be balanced by the osmotic pressure and no further osmosis will take place
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#17
Quote by Harvey Swick
where did that "original" energy come from? the big bang? is there "pure" energy that has never been converted?
if "Original Energy" came from the big bang, is me walking across the room, or a blade of grass, part of the continual energy brought on by the big bang?

is life just one huge explosion?

Yes. Bringing things closer to home, everything on this planet and everything you or anyone else does on this planet has it's origins in the nuclear fusion of hydrogen in the Sun.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


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#18
Lol @ treadmill. The term you are looking for is turbine.
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#19
Quote by Deplorable
The concentrations equalise, and no more water will flow.

concentration can't equalize because there's no salt on the left side of the membrane. Just the water level difference will create an excess pressure on one side which will balance out the osmotic pressure and create a state of equilibrium. Concentration on both sides will still be different
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#20
The energy generated by the water wheel would be less or equal to the energy required to pump the water to the top to complete the cycle. The basis is energy cannot be destroyed or created. Only converted. So you cant get out more than you put in.
#21
Quote by StewieSwan
Lol @ treadmill. The term you are looking for is turbine.

whatevs, english is my second language.
#22
Quote by vagelier
whatevs, english is my second language.

I would never have picked up on that. Congratulations on being so fluent in your second language.
#23
Awesome pic. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakn' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.
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#24
Quote by devourke
I would never have picked up on that. Congratulations on being so fluent in your second language.

#25
Did you do any research? I've seen a few designs of osmosis powerplants, i think there were some prototypes built in Holland or something. Overall sea based power has a potential to help us become more sustainable and green. Problems usually consist of bad output ratios and tough maintainence situations.
#27
First Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that all energy before and after a reaction is equal. Therefore it is never EVAR possible to have "free" energy. It must always come from some other source.
#28
Turbine wouldn't spin, there isn't anything creating a flow of water past it. You're simply piling some water on top of it.
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#29
Quote by Dudeinator
Energy is converted, not created, so the idea of free energy cannot exist.

/thread
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#31

Because the water fills the entire vessel, and would therefore actually sit here. The water level is always equal throughout the whole system, hence there would be no motion to move the turbine.
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#32
If this would ever be feasible, which it's not, who says the diffused water will mix with the salt again ? You would propably end up with very very very salty sedimentation, rendering this idea highly inefficient.
#33
Quote by Lord_Doku
If this would ever be feasible, which it's not, who says the diffused water will mix with the salt again ? You would propably end up with very very very salty sedimentation, rendering this idea highly inefficient.

To be honest, theres plenty of free energy we can use, the oceans for one... That's loads of energy that could be harnessed.
#34
Quote by vagelier
whatevs, english is my second language.


I always assumed you lived in England
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#35
Quote by Zoot Allures
To be honest, theres plenty of free energy we can use, the oceans for one... That's loads of energy that could be harnessed.


I didn't mean the ocean currents, just this idea :P

The ocean currents can provide us with such an enormous amount of power that wind turbines and solar panels seem redundant.

If only Greenpeace never existed...
#36
So it's like a type reverse osmosis convection system?

I'm sure if you perfect it, it could work. The question is, would it be worth it? How much energy would it generate? How efficient is it?

Unfortunately in today's world, those are the questions that matter.

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#37
Quote by Zoot Allures
I thought Tesla basically invented effectively 'free' energy with electrical resonence stuff anyway and that's why they screwed him over in the end.


Tesla was a bloody genius. Some of his stuff has barely seen the light and no one knows about it. Take for example his whole electrical forcefield idea. That was never really tested, it would be interesting if we could bring his inventions back and test them out.
#38
energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. Also, this makes me want to look at troll physics lol
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#39
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