#1
Hi,

Been a while since I visited this forum, but now I'm writing music again and again it's my theory that is failing me.. Here are two parts form a song I'm writing:

Verse
°°°°°
   Dmaj   G#dim7   F#m9   Dm
e|-9------7--------4------1---|
B|-7------6--------2------3---|
G|-7------7--------2------2---|
D|-7------6--------4------3---|
A|----------------------------|
E|----------------------------|


Chorus
°°°°°°
   A    Dm
e|-0----1---|
B|-2----3---|
G|-2----2---|
D|-2----0---|
A|-0--------|
E|----------|


So the last chord of the verse and the chorus are the same, the strange part is that Verse -> Chorus sounds good, but Chorus -> Verse doesn't seem to work. In other words: Dm -> Dmaj is ok, but Dm -> Dmaj isn't???

Could it be that I've changed the key in the Chorus? That means I'll have to find a chord (progression) that leads again to F#m. But I really know nothing about such chords (I've found the first Dm just by experimenting).

Any help would be appreciated!
lalala
#2
Quote by Didii
Hi,

Been a while since I visited this forum, but now I'm writing music again and again it's my theory that is failing me.. Here are two parts form a song I'm writing:


So the last chord of the verse and the chorus are the same, the strange part is that Verse -> Chorus sounds good, but Chorus -> Verse doesn't seem to work. In other words: Dm -> Dmaj is ok, but Dm -> Dmaj isn't???

Could it be that I've changed the key in the Chorus? That means I'll have to find a chord (progression) that leads again to F#m. But I really know nothing about such chords (I've found the first Dm just by experimenting).

Any help would be appreciated!

...wait wat.
I didn't get that.
But anyways, Going from D minor to D major or opposite always sound wierd.
#3
well your not going form dm to dmajor this usually sonds werid
your going from Dm to Amaj which is pleaseing to your ear i guess

try playin gthe Dmaj7 as
e2
b2
G2
d0

when going from the chorus to the verse
Last edited by supersac at Nov 1, 2011,
#4
It's all in the same key. A Major. The Dm is borrowed from the parallel minor scale.

If you want the transition from chorus to verse to sound better, try playing A7 after the Dm in the chorus. That should lead nicely to Dmaj7 (if you play the voicing mentioned above).

if you want to get back to that high voicing, I would play the A7 like this:

-
-8
-6
-7
-0
-

Edit: A Tritone Sub for the A7 will also work very nicely to descend to Dmaj7. Ebdim7.
-
-7-7
-5-6
-7-7
-6-5
-
Last edited by mdc at Nov 1, 2011,
#5
@JB95: I play the chord progression of the verse at least 2 times, so that's the first Dm to Dmaj, and that does sound good. Chorus to Verse are the same two chords, so again Dm to Dmaj, and that doesn't sound good anymore.

@supersac: I don't know what you're getting at.. You mean that the first chord of the chorus isn't a Dmaj but a Amaj instead? Something isn't right here..
EDIT: You mean the Dm from the verse I hear like an A? That does make sense. I do play the Dm as Dmsus2 right before getting back which sounds very much like an A. But no maj..

@mdc: That does sound better indeed. Any explanation why it sounds good that way?

Thanks for the quick responses!
lalala
Last edited by Didii at Nov 1, 2011,
#6
The A7 is a functioning secondary dominant. The voices found in the tritone interval in A7 move a semitone in opposite directions when going back to D major. THAT, is the perfect cadence.
Last edited by mdc at Nov 1, 2011,
#7
Quote by Didii
@JB95: I play the chord progression of the verse at least 2 times, so that's the first Dm to Dmaj, and that does sound good. Chorus to Verse are the same two chords, so again Dm to Dmaj, and that doesn't sound good anymore.

@supersac: I don't know what you're getting at.. You mean that the first chord of the chorus isn't a Dmaj but a Amaj instead? Something isn't right here..

@mdc: That does sound better indeed. Any explanation why it sounds that way?

Thanks for the quick responses!


Supersac means when you go from the verse to the chorus, you're going from D minor to A major. which is why the verse -> chorus progression sounds good.

MDC suggested tritone substition, which reinforces voice leading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_leading

MDC could you clarify something for me - why Ebdim7? I thought tritone subs were just straitup swaps for one V7 chord for another (the other being the chord with the root a tritone above what the original chord would have been). So E7 instead of A7, for instance.
Last edited by stratdax at Nov 1, 2011,
#8
Quote by stratdax
MDC could you clarify something for me - why Ebdim7? I thought tritone subs were just straitup swaps for one V7 chord for another.

Yeah, I actually edited my post at the time of your typing lol. I'm glad you brought that up.

Strictly speaking yes. Since I actually lost the tritone with the Ebdim7. Got carried away.

Hopefully you'll agree it still works though. I don't mind a bit of dissonance.
#9
Quote by mdc
Yeah, I actually edited my post at the time of your typing lol. I'm glad you brought that up.

Strictly speaking yes. Since I actually lost the tritone with the Ebdim7. Got carried away.

Hopefully you'll agree it still works though. I don't mind a bit of dissonance.


Okay cool - so just so I'm 100% clear, tritone subs are typically playing E7 instead of A7, right? I haven't really learnt much about tritone subs yet, and I haven't used them in any context. Once I get home I'll work through the notes and voices and try out this dim chord. Interested to see how it all works out...

edit: Oh I see,
in Ebdim7 to Dmaj7, the Eb resolved down to D, the Gb and F# are enharmonic, the Bbb and A are enharmonic, and the Dbb and C are enharmonc.

Instead of with A7 to Dmaj7:
The C# resolves to C, the G resolves to F#, the A remains the same, and the E resolves to D

Or a regular tritone sub, E7 to Dmaj7, where
the Eb resolves to D, the G resolves to F#, the Bb resolves to A, and the Db resolves to C.

Man I gotta try all this out.
Didii, you'll see that all these chords basically lead the listener's ear by half steps. It's all about what kind of melodic thread you want to have running through your song - where you want the listener's ear to go. That's voice leading!
Last edited by stratdax at Nov 1, 2011,
#10
Quote by stratdax
Okay cool - so just so I'm 100% clear, tritone subs are typically playing E7 instead of A7, right? I haven't really learnt much about tritone subs yet, and I haven't used them in any context. Once I get home I'll work through the notes and voices and try out this dim chord. Interested to see how it all works out...

Whenever you see a dominant chord, sub it with another one 3 tones (hence tritone) higher.

Rather than using that formula though (and this is just me), I prefer the visual aspect of it as I look at the guitar.

-
-
-[color="DarkRed"]6[/COLOR]-[color="DarkRed"]6[/COLOR]
-[color="DarkRed"]5[/COLOR]-[color="DarkRed"]5[/COLOR]
---6
-5-


You can see that the tritone is shared as you switch between the two dominant chords.
#11
Quote by mdc
The A7 is a functioning secondary dominant. The voices found in the tritone interval in A7 move a semitone in opposite directions when going back to D major. THAT, is the perfect cadence.

I should just mention that, rather than a perfect cadence, it's more of a temporary tonicization of the Dmaj chord.

This is because the key of the song is in A Major, therefore the tonic is A. The note D is just a root note within the progression itself.