#1
Hey guys,

so, I am kind of a new player, I have only been playing two years but I have learned fast and practiced 8-10 hours a day over the past 2 years... my life has become this guitar.

And I started practicing by improvising and it took a long time but I got pretty good at it. SO I have learned timing, and good phrasing and I can play pretty darn fast not CRAZY fast. I also learned the minor/major scale over the entire fretboard and can move fluidly between the different box positions with out thinking about it .

But I wanna be able to improvise for those fast paced metal songs shredding crazy licks my problem is. I think I am a bit stuck in a two note per string pattern. I mean I have tried the three note per string scale and sure I can hammer on notes all the way up the neck but it sounds so linear and boring.

I am really unsure of what I am asking,

I suppose is what patterns should I be drilling into my head in order to be able to create crazy fast runs. And also fast repeating licks.


I basically wanna be able to do what this guy does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8cxahtOAC8&feature=watch_response

I will tell you in more specifics what I am talking about.

(0:22 this is a really fast and cool lick, it actually looks like hes only using two fingers is this right? )

((0:26 this looks like a 3 note pattern but sounds nothing like when I pull off 3 notes on two strings )

(0:45 this looks like incredibly fast picking, i CANT pick that fast yet but ill work on it if only I knew what his fret hand was doing)

Now hes faster then I am but not by a huge margin but I know its gonna take a bit of time for me to get up to speed, and I know he has added in some thinks like finger taping and sweep picking, But I am unconcerned with those two techniques at this time, I can finger tap a bit already and sweep picking I actually just don't like the sound of so I don't bother with it. The parts that blow me away is when he isnt tapping or sweeping.

I just feel like I am LACKING information what is the secret to this type of speed, and movement, the kind of licks this guy pulls off seemingly effortlessly, when I try and play fast I always end up in an awkward finger position eventually unless of course I stay in the completely linear 3 note per string patterns.

So any advice and information on how what patterns and how to properly finger them etc etc, I mean what is it that I am missing.

Thank you in advanced
#2
try learning solos by Iron Maiden and Black Label Society.

They sound hella ****ing fast, but when you play it it's not quite that fast (with the exception of some Zakk Wylde solos)

They have great 2 string patterns and all that stuff, cool runs that can inspire you are all over the place.
#3
1. Set a metronome to a nice slow speed (say 50 bpm for example)

2. Practice whatever you want at this speed. Be it exercises, solos, whatever. Focus on ACCURACY and not SPEED.

3. Gradually increase the speed by, say, 5 bpm increments.. But only do this, and I mean ONLY, when you can play whatever lick you're playing comfortably and accurately at the bpm you started with.

If you've never used this approach, you'll start noticing an improvement in your playing fairly quickly.

Another thing to practice is odd note groupings. If you've already mastered sixteenths (4 notes per beat) then work on triplets (3 per beat) or sextuplets (6 per beat). Then move on to 5, 7, 9 notes per beat, etc. Getting odd groupings under your belt can take your shredding to a whole nother level

Tapping is a cool technique and you mentioned that you've already tinkered with it a bit. Try tapping across multiple strings.. Go to my profile here and listen to the ditty called "Foreword". It's about a minute long and is all tapping (except the open E). It's not fast, but it's an example of what I'm talking about.

Sweeping is a useful techinique and it's likely that if you don't like how it sounds, you've probably only heard boring bog-standard arpeggios. But even with the boring arpeggios, a sweep here or there can add to a solo and blow the minds of listeners/noob guitarists.

Utilize string skipping. Those 3 note per string patterns can be made not-so-boring by applying techinques like string skipping and legato, throwing in a tap or two here and there, tossing in a sweep and playing some pentatonic licks with some tasty bends.

Basically, it all comes down to practice. There's tons of exercises on the web and PLENTY of tabs to a ton of solos here at UG. A couple of names that come to mind for speed-shredding are Jason Becker and Jeff Loomis. Try learning some of their solos. Good luck
#4
Quote by metalhead92787
Hey guys,
But I wanna be able to improvise for those fast paced metal songs shredding crazy licks my problem is. I think I am a bit stuck in a two note per string pattern. I mean I have tried the three note per string scale and sure I can hammer on notes all the way up the neck but it sounds so linear and boring.


Well I would approach it by first imagining in my head what I want to play, then working out to play it, regardless of the type of technique required. If you say I just wanna play a 3 note per string pattern for this part, it kinda limits what you can come up with.
#5
Quote by GenericGenocide
1. Set a metronome to a nice slow speed (say 50 bpm for example)

2. Practice whatever you want at this speed. Be it exercises, solos, whatever. Focus on ACCURACY and not SPEED.

3. Gradually increase the speed by, say, 5 bpm increments.. But only do this, and I mean ONLY, when you can play whatever lick you're playing comfortably and accurately at the bpm you started with.

If you've never used this approach, you'll start noticing an improvement in your playing fairly quickly.

Another thing to practice is odd note groupings. If you've already mastered sixteenths (4 notes per beat) then work on triplets (3 per beat) or sextuplets (6 per beat). Then move on to 5, 7, 9 notes per beat, etc. Getting odd groupings under your belt can take your shredding to a whole nother level

Tapping is a cool technique and you mentioned that you've already tinkered with it a bit. Try tapping across multiple strings.. Go to my profile here and listen to the ditty called "Foreword". It's about a minute long and is all tapping (except the open E). It's not fast, but it's an example of what I'm talking about.

Sweeping is a useful techinique and it's likely that if you don't like how it sounds, you've probably only heard boring bog-standard arpeggios. But even with the boring arpeggios, a sweep here or there can add to a solo and blow the minds of listeners/noob guitarists.

Utilize string skipping. Those 3 note per string patterns can be made not-so-boring by applying techinques like string skipping and legato, throwing in a tap or two here and there, tossing in a sweep and playing some pentatonic licks with some tasty bends.

Basically, it all comes down to practice. There's tons of exercises on the web and PLENTY of tabs to a ton of solos here at UG. A couple of names that come to mind for speed-shredding are Jason Becker and Jeff Loomis. Try learning some of their solos. Good luck


Thank you for the response, I am looking into excercises I can do.
And looking for shred patterns that are easy to jump around the fret board with.

I already am practicing with metronome, I have been a bit lazy with it though.
I started off at like 80 bpm, and now I am at about 135-140 bpm playing triplets which is a whole lot easier for me then play 4 notes but maybe its because I am trying to play 4 notes on a single string its easy if I play the pentatonic (2 note per string) in 16ths . I am not trying to get crazy fast like 250 bpm 300 bpm like I have seen some players on youtube I would be happy If I can play at like 180, thats fast enough for me to be considered shred haha.

If anyone has excercises or shred patterns they would like to link please do. I would be so greatful for the help.

Thanks UG community!
Last edited by metalhead92787 at Nov 2, 2011,
#6
Quote by metalhead92787

But I wanna be able to improvise for those fast paced metal songs shredding crazy licks my problem is. I think I am a bit stuck in a two note per string pattern. I mean I have tried the three note per string scale and sure I can hammer on notes all the way up the neck but it sounds so linear and boring.

(0:22 this is a really fast and cool lick, it actually looks like hes only using two fingers is this right? )

((0:26 this looks like a 3 note pattern but sounds nothing like when I pull off 3 notes on two strings )

(0:45 this looks like incredibly fast picking, i CANT pick that fast yet but ill work on it if only I knew what his fret hand was doing)


Okay, I generally don't find metal or speed that interesting, so understand this as coming from somebody who wasn't impressed by any of that except on a technical level, but I think you're putting your attention in the wrong place.

Other people have already given you advice on how to develop your speed (start slow, focus on playing it perfectly, slowly build speed). But what's missing here is the discussion of music.

I don't see that guy as a master of improvisation. I see him as a master of technique. And technique is only half of improvisation. That's the "how you say it" part. The other part is the "what are you saying" part.

I cited the above quotes because to me they point to a subtext that you're thinking of all these licks physically, rather than musically. You're thinking about the number of notes per string and other physical aspects of what he's playing, instead of the notes.

If you can do all the things you say you can do in your intro, it's well past time for you to still be thinking of licks in physical terms. You need to develop your core musicianship and your ear so that you're thinking of them in musical terms. What notes is he playing?

Focus on the "what" is he saying. The simple truth is that your hands will never be faster than your brain - so you need to work on the speed of your brain to hear and process those notes to tell your hand what to do.

Yes, you can do the drills other people tell you and get any given lick up to a very fast speed with practice and muscle memory. However, you're not really improvising when you do that, you're just showing off a lick.

Licks are an important part of a kick-ass solo, but they are not the solo. Memorizing a bunch of different licks by physical repetition isn't expressing yourself with your instrument. Technique is in the brain, so train your brain to hear music better.

Then your ability to play licks both faster and more expressively with grow, too.
#7
Thank you for replying Hotspurjr I agree with what your saying but perhaps you misunderstood what I am looking for.

I already have the ability to express myself, am I master ? No I am not. It is a work in progress and there is always room for improvement, but I sound pretty good if I do say so myself, I am well aware that learning a lick will not convey emotional connection.

And I am not asking for licks, I am asking for the techniques I suppose, that ability to play fast with out getting myself into an awkward position and then making errors.

I think btw I might have found my own answer.
As I mentioned earlier I have indeed memorized the scale all over the board, and by now can play it with my eyes closed , however I tend to see it in box patterns still.
Even if its several box patters that overlap I still approach it in that way.

I found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFESOIJJqz4
and the way this guy plays his 4 note per string scale with his slide of one note and then fretting the last 3 makes so much more sense to me now.

In this way I can generally keep a static hand position instead of breaking my hand position when I play normally because the box patterns are mostly not symmetrical.
So I am going to practice this guys technique and then start working on both speed but also playing in my normal rythmic style.
#8
I realize you are into metal, but if you feel like you are stuck, why not check out some other styles? You may not want to become a funk or jazz player, but the modal playing and impro in jazz I think is about as advanced as it gets...

Definitely get into the theory. I personally think the key to creative soloing isn't how fast you can go or how many positions you have memorized, it's about understanding WHY you are playing the notes you are playing and targeting certain notes that will sound good in a given musical context.

If you want to get a fresh take on soloing, I would check out some jazzy stuff. Even if it's not the style you want to play it's going to give you a new take on impro and soloing.
#9
my take...forget speed...it should be the LAST thing to aquire in your toolbox...you said you know your scales...how about melodic patterns in ALL 12 keys..and incorporate melodic lines in you solos..

check this out..muris is one of the best players i have ever heard...check out his work/lessons..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os7jZWH2vC4

play well

wolf
#10
My take is this.....

Focus on music. Get good at that. Then you can play it any speed you want.
shred is gaudy music
#11
Quote by luciat
I realize you are into metal, but if you feel like you are stuck, why not check out some other styles? You may not want to become a funk or jazz player, but the modal playing and impro in jazz I think is about as advanced as it gets...

Definitely get into the theory. I personally think the key to creative soloing isn't how fast you can go or how many positions you have memorized, it's about understanding WHY you are playing the notes you are playing and targeting certain notes that will sound good in a given musical context.

If you want to get a fresh take on soloing, I would check out some jazzy stuff. Even if it's not the style you want to play it's going to give you a new take on impro and soloing.


+1

TS, you're talking about knowing the major and minor scales all over the neck and that's definitely a good thing. The problem is that while knowing these patterns is certainly useful, they're nothing special. It doesn't matter how many notes per string you apply to the patterns. 2, 3, 4 notes... It's all going to sound about the same. Luciat hit the nail on the head about using creativity in your playing and exploring other genres of music to improve.

Like he said, try to learn a bit of theory. You don't have to be an expert in theory to be a good guitarist, but having a good foundation's a big step towards being a good MUSICIAN.

Try learning the harmonic minor scale all over the neck. It's pretty exotic compared to what you've been playing and playing with it will def give you some new ideas. And you'd asked earlier for some good exercises, etc... Here's a good site to start with:

http://www.shredaholic.com/