#1
Disclaimers
*Mods, if you find any of the links are against the rules, please remove them or message me to remove them, just don't want the thread closed*

*All of this info is based off of my own personal dealings, situations will be different based on where you live, you however should be able to relate anything to your own area*

Ok so after reading some threads and posts lately, I just wanted to give some of ya'll a little info from what I've experienced and seen in my bit of being in the music industry, in hopes that it may help some people here. With that said, prepare for a monster wall!


First off: http://www.unitedbands.net/forums/forumdisplay.php/17-Venues

This is a list of venues in all 50 states, some are old and links may be broken, but there's still plenty that are still in business and running. Just click the state and there will be venues listed under the states and the links take your directly to booking contact with the venue somewhere on the linked page. They're not just for metal/rock, they're everything from country to rock to hip-hop. So you'll have to sort through and find ones that will book your genre.

The best way to get shows is to find other bands playing those venues and show swap and pair up with bands in certain areas. Just randomly asking agencies to put you on shows might not even get you noticed. Find the venue you want to play at, see who is playing there (check their online calendar), find a band that has a similar style as you and get in contact. Ask them if they would like to come open for you in exchange for you going to play with them (they generally won't say no, they want to expand their fan base too). It's the easiest and best way to break state lines and get out of your local area and get contacts with and from other bands.

When you approach bookers they aren't wanting to do the work in many cases of putting together shows for a bunch of no name bands (no offense, I doubt any of them have heard of you). It's honestly best to think that everyone in the music business are lazy pieces of s*** and they don't want to do any work to make money, it sounds crazy, but you'll have more success if you just assume this about everyone. When you go to a booker, these are the things that you can give them that will almost always guarantee you a show.

You want shows, well here ya go...Come to them with a show already prepared


Have 2-3 other bands that will play this show with you and are ready to play that date.

Give them the statistics. How many people you can draw on average (if you don't keep up with this in a real numeric value each show...it's time to start, how are you really measuring show success..."hey man, I think we had like 10 more people than last show...figure it out for sure.), and then the average number that the other bands can draw.

Tell them where you have played in the past and give them contact info to the venue, a lot of time they'll like to be able to confirm the info if they've never heard of you before.

Tell them what you want to get paid and how much the ticket price will be to make them money---be careful here---an $8 is about where you want to be at (until your drawing around 75+ alone). They are suckers for door deals that are in their favor. The one I always do is that the band gets a 85% cut of all door sales after the first $200 (the house takes that, and that is money that's not out of pocket to pay the sound engineer and door man) so basically 20 people's money goes to the venue and everything else you'll get $6.80 going into a band pool and the other bit going to the house. (I'll touch on the splitting of the band pool in a minute)

Determine what marketing the venue is going to do for an event, you can demand this, it's at the discretion of the venue and agency with how much they want to do to promote the show, do they want to spend the money to advertise on radio or newspaper. You can offer them splits of the cost, there's no rules here. Just realize the more advertising the better...venues, promoters and agents know this and you can get away with some cheap radio promotion by splitting costs(remember you have 2-3 other bands to split that cost with and then we'll say 4 members in each band) There's no limit here you can ask for print help, radio, street teams, website, anything...you just have to be able negotiate making them feel like they are making a good deal. And that the promotion and marketing will pay off by getting more people in the door.

You'll discuss these things going back and forth for a bit and hopefully reach a deal, then it's time to promote.

Ok now spitting the money in the band. If your are all local bands from the same area and there is no noticeable difference in the amount of people each band is drawing, split the money in equal shares (keep those egos down). If a band is an obvious headliner (drawing more than the others) and the other two bands have similar draw do a 50%/25%/25% split. If there's a large difference between the other two bands do a, 50%/35%/15% split. Determine this before the show so there's no BS at the end and have it written down, either via email or signed by them. The only time you ever want demand a flat fee is if your a tribute/cover band or you are in the position when promoters and agents are after you themselves.

If your good and can actually bring in people, you can make a lot more off the door, but it's always a gamble.

All of that ^^^ can apply locally, you will have a much better chance of getting a show or put on a show if you come to people with everything ready to roll.


Band Promotion

The Internet
Remember this one bit of information if nothing else: "The Golden Rule" Likes on Facebook or followers on Twitter in no way relates to how many people will actually come out to see you play and support you.

Youtube...yes youtube, this may sound stupid but video every single f***ing little thing you do as a band, whether it be a rehearsal, live show, you guys going to McDonalds and goofing off, band video blogs, even put your music up there <<<Duh!. Marry your hand to a video camera and put everything on youtube. 3 billion views a day as of May 2011. This is just a little under facebook and more than twitter as far as users go and more importantly they are people that are looking for music or to be entertained. It's one of the most overlooked underutilized tools that you have available.

I hope I don't have to mention Facebook lol. If you don't have one stop being an idiot and get one, it's a great way to organize shows, let people know about your band and music, and of course it can host your music for free.

Internet promotion for the most part is easy enough, almost everything is free, the idea is to just have your music and name in any and every site you think of out there and have platforms in which you can give people information regarding shows and your band.

The most important thing though...is you have to actively use these things to see results, if I see a facebook post maybe once a month from a band, who cares. Now if your updating every day, and your doing an event here and a show there, you LOOK more interesting.

And just remember the golden rule!
#2
Back to the real world
There are no rules...only opportunities. Here's a couple of ideas I've used and seen to promote/market to get people to shows.

I'll start with your normal avenues of promotion.

Fliers, are a wonderful thing, if they are used correctly. You need to use a little commonsense when it comes to passing out fliers. You need to put them in and around where your playing for them to have any effect, sounds stupidly simple right? Can't tell you how many times a band will F this up. I had a friends band who was playing a gig on a wednesday night back when we were in high school. They got 500 fliers and passed them out around school and put them on students cars in the parking lot...ok...your passing out fliers to school kids, for a show on a Wednesday night, that's downtown 20+ minutes away from the school that starts at 9pm...and it's a school night. Do I really need to go on here? Use your head, those 500 fliers would have been put to much better use passing them around the college that was 2 minutes from the venue. Putting fliers on cars=bad, how many grannies are you giving fliers that could give two s***s if your metal band exists and think you're the spawn of satan. Passing fliers out by hand and meeting people=good. Make an impression!


This next thing I apparently stole from a Good Charlotte video with out knowing it lol, been using this for a while...Prior to playing a show, hit the streets around the venue, pair up with your band members and go around with an MP3 player and get people to listen to your music, just let them listen to 20 seconds or so and then start telling them about the show. If they seem interested give them a flier. Maybe even work out a discount situation where you'll give them a $2 off the door price if they bring a flier signed by you. Again you'll make less for this one show, but potentially make more fans which in the long run can make you a lot more. It's all about getting people in the door which makes the venue really happy.


Local magazines. If you live near a city, even a small one like me, there will no doubt be some sort of free information magazine. The one where I live is called the "Freetimes" (http://www.free-times.com/ link is so you can see what I mean by free alternative weekly news magazine) As far as I'm aware there is something like this in every city across the USA. Pick up a copy and surf through and find the area where they have local music, they do reviews, promotions for shows, everything. And just as I said about going to booking agents with a show ready. Go to your local writer with material ready. This doesn't mean write the article yourself. But have any and all information he could possibly need ready and available, your cd info, where you play, what you sound like, give them a picture. And if you really want to be nice and get a article, invite them to your show and put them on the guest list and buy them a drink/meal or something. Get them out, treat them well and they'll treat you well in the form of a good article promoting the band and music. You can also pay for advertisement space in these, which may be worth it if you have 2-3 other bands to split the cost with.

Local radio...A lot of college radio stations or some AM stations are great easy ways of getting the word out there. You can set up on air interviews and mention your upcoming show or album, most of the time for free.

Just remember people it's a give and get world. If you invite the radio personality out to your show for free and offer to pay for a drink/meal, they'll in turn give you some good publicity. Local radio has a lot of freedom of who they choose to be on their shows, so be nice to them and you can get a lot of free promo.


Turning a show into an event...

Want to really increase the amount of people that come to a show? Turn your average show into more of an event. There's a couple of ways I've used and seen to accomplish this.

One way is to do something as simple as a giveaway. I went to some local business, restaurants, clothing stores, etc and got a bunch of coupons. Outback steakhouse, Kohls, Applebees, and Hooters were the ones that gave me things. I had 50% coupons, free food, etc. Advertise this stuff when your promoting. Then do a raffle at the end of the show (so they have to stay to see if they win anything) We saw moderately better draw doing this, maybe an extra 10-15 people or so. And actually had more than enough free "bloomin onion" cards for Outback that we just gave them out to everyone that came.

I have also done a food drive. We got a local charity to come out and sponsor the show, they paid for advertising, radio, and tv. We had your standard ticket price at $10 and then if you brought something to donate you got in for $5. We didn't make as much money off of it obviously because pretty much everyone showed up with at least a can of food, but we made headlines in the state paper and got an interview on the local news station. We sold out the show a, 400 person venue, with 2 other bands...(we were pulling maybe 60 a show at the time and the other bands not much more), whether or not they like our music, they at least supported us because we were helping the community. And you never know what kind of contacts can arise from events like that, you'll have a really diverse group of people coming and reading/seeing you in the news.

Use your imagination and ingenuity with this, the sky's the limit.


It's called the music business for a reason.

I really suggest everyone reading the book "All You Need To Know About the Music Business" by Donald S. Passman. It will give you a great base understanding of a lot of things that go on in the business. Probably one of the best consolidated books of information you can find.

Like any business you have to have a plan...how are you going to succeed, what are your goals, how are you going to make money, being the most basic things you have to answer. Obviously you can go much more in depth but this is the basic idea.


How are you going to succeed?

Simple enough questions. Are you going to take the "lil wayne" method and release EPs every 3 months, and then a full album once a year, giving your fans a constant stream of new music. Are you going to tour your region or coast? Are you going to sell your music online on places like Itunes. Are you going to put on festivals/shows to create awareness of an issue in the world?


What are your goals?

Objectively write these out on a giant piece of poster board and stick them in your practice space (I actually have a school white board we "got" from a school when they were renovating and put it up in the practice spot.) And give yourself a timetable.

Things like how many shows you want to be playing a month. Write at least 2 new songs every month. By (so and so date) have a 5 state 2 week tour booked. Record a 8 song album by, so and so date. You get the idea, but get into extreme detail...AND WORK TOWARDS THESE GOALS!!!...there not just up there to look pretty, they're what you want to do and what your working for. Have phone numbers for other bands you've played shows with, newspapers, recording studio, any contact you can think of and keep it organized either up on the wall or in a computer file. (The idea is, if you guys are sitting there, and your coming up 2 shows short for your monthly shows in goals, call up band A from Philly *etc* and see what they're doing, if there's a chance you can get on a show with them or get one going.)


How are you going to make money?

You need to make money right? Ok...how are you going to do it? Are you going to tour extensively. Sell music, sell merchandise. Determine these things. Do the math, figure out if you buy this many shirts for this much and sell them for that how much your going to make. Figure out how many shows you need to play a month to be making we'll say $400 per band member. If you want to make a living completely off of playing music, make yourself a personal and band budget and see what the minimum is for you to live.

I'll add more later.

TLR....Goals!!! set them, work towards them. Be imaginative in the ways your promote go outside the box and remember everyone in the industry are lazy F***S and you should do the work yourself to see more immediate results.
Last edited by scguitarking927 at Nov 3, 2011,
#4
Great post dude! You may want to consider submitting it as a column so we don't lose it.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#5
Fantastic post, lots of great stuff. Thanks very much.
New To Town With A Made Up Name

In The Angel's City

Chasing Fortune And Fame
09/03/2012
#6
thanks guys! And I went a head and submitted it alan.


Ahhh and here we go with a little more

The mailing list...

I have a feeling this is going to be a little "rambling" but I have a point, the story's important so you can understand why some ideas fail hard. Mailing lists. It's going to be on the top of the simplistic little sites telling you "101 ways to market your band" ahhh such B.S. . It's usually positioned up in the top 10 ways to market and promote and is told to be one of the most important tools to use.

Maybe it's just me, but I hate traditional mailing lists and haven't used the "traditional" method of email since my first band some 5 years ago and it didn't work (it probably works great for huge bands selling millions of records...but not for your local musician/band.) Since then the idea has somewhat evolved (or maybe technically devolved, will touch on it in a second). With Facebook coming into it's own and band pages being able to mass invite people to a show, bands have gotten pretty slack in really connecting with fans. It's too easy to just mass invite the few hundred people that have taken the 2 seconds out of their measly little lives to click a like button...GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE GOLDEN RULE!!! So what's wrong with doing a mass facebook invite to a show...nothing...what's wrong is, relying on it as an accurate way of predicting the amount of people that are going to show up to your show, again the GOLDEN RULE.

So realizing the rule after my first couple shows of having 30 or so odd people supposedly coming to the show and maybe 10 showing up, something had to be done. A mailing list...well sort of.

We had decided instead of asking for email addresses, we'll ask for phone numbers and we'll text people info about show dates. Well we started off, of course, getting our friends and family and we would text everyone when a show was scheduled and then 3-4 follow ups over the course of the weeks before. And then once we played we'd go around and socialize with everyone and get their numbers and add them to the lists.

Now here in lies the issue. And thank god I have such jack ass friends to tell me I'm an idiot when I piss them off, other wise never knowing the issue we were facing. The issue...over the course of the next 4-5 shows numbers started sliding off little by little, we couldn't understand it! So the next show date we send out our mass text to everyone reminding them of the show that night. Maybe 30 seconds after the text was sent I get a call from one of my friends, the conversation was short and to sum it up somewhat nicely he said, "you are making me angry, stop sending me these texts."

And then I realized it...we were aggravating these people via mass texts. I don't know about anyone else but I HATE getting chain texts or some random spam. We were doing it, it may have had a point to it, and people may have willingly gave us their number, but we were abusing that privilege of personal contact with our fans.

So the problems that needed to be solved...stop sending things in mass bulk and make the individual feel more "special" by receiving a more personalized invite.

Well we decided to keep ONE mass text letting people know weeks in advanced about a show, but decided that within 2-3 days of a show all band members would sit down and try to make a personal phone call to everyone on our contact list. We didn't always get to everyone but we saw our numbers start to rise back up and some more people that rarely came out, come out to a show. (this is the "devolving" back to doing phone calls )

TLDR...NO SPAM even if has a point and again be personal by making an individual feel special.


And maybe it's just because I'm anal as hell and like being really organized but I made a spread sheet with all fans we had, whether they were from phone contacts, facebook, twitter, etc. (I did this once we had upwards of 500 or so "fans" to keep track of, if your completely just starting out, don't fret over this.) Fans names would be going down the left hand side and the ways of contact would be on the top, with the necessary info like phone numbers in the blocks. And most importantly, what city they lived in. (No point contacting someone from Florida if your playing in Virginia, it will also let you numerically see what your actual potential fanbase is in every city.) Then if I had someone thats only form of contact with us was through the phone, they would be prioritized and put on the top of the phone call list to make sure they were informed about a show. I'd then update it the days after every show.
Last edited by scguitarking927 at Nov 5, 2011,
#7
^ Well done, sir!

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#10
Quote by scguitarking927
I'll have something else up tomorrow, have a few more topics I thought I would cover

Nice

I'd love some more ideas on marketing online. Oh and may be you could dive into the instrumental/solo artist area on marketing? I guess it's quite different from the band situation
#11
Quote by Vendetta V
Nice

I'd love some more ideas on marketing online. Oh and may be you could dive into the instrumental/solo artist area on marketing? I guess it's quite different from the band situation


Well instrumental artists aren't that in much demand in many cases, what type of instrumental/solo music are we talking here? Obviously it makes it harder if your a metal artist as apposed to an acoustic act. Marketing is a lot easier for solo acts, like if your an acoustic guitar player/singer, but even once they decided to play shows they generally have a backing band supporting them.

So the question is, do you specifically want to be an internet artist or do you want to play shows?

The reason this is important is because it changes the marketing game depending on what you want to do. A lot of the marketing done on the web will just not flat out correlate to how many people will come out to see an act play. If you want to play shows, it's best to do the marketing offline and out in the real world and just keep up a facebook account to relay information to "fans".

There are many successful internet artists who never play a show but can make 10s or thousands of dollars a year off of advertising and doing nothing more than having their music on the web. Then there's the person walking the streets trying to play in any coffee shop they can find, maybe making $50-100 going to play for an hour or two.

It all depends on what your goals are, so without knowing your specific goals I can't give you specific ideas but I'll cover a few things I've done and seen some sort of success with. I'm pretty sure anything I say from this part out can be referred back to my OP in some way. Knowing goals, measuring success, etc.

Internet
For me, youtube is by far my most favorite internet marketing tool. And you do need a quality product to get results, which means a good recording and a good video. I have a friend who in the process of trying to become a "internet artist". And I've sat down with him and discussed how he's going to make it happen.

What we decided was to take all his songs, record them (lucky him I'm studying AE and could do the recording super cheap.), and then using my favorite tool, put them up on youtube. Youtube marketing can be a little tricky, just because you put up a video doesn't mean anyone's going to see it. A very easy thing to do is feed off of other people's success. What I mean with that is the ability to do a "video response" to another video. What you would do is take another artist who has we'll say 2 million views on a video; who plays a similar type of music to yourself. Respond to that video with a video of your own. So what you have just done is place your video in a place to be seen by people by who are interested in your type of music. So 2 million views have been placed on that video, now you have a better chance of getting more views because it's placed with that video than if you were to just upload it and just wait in hopes that people will see and like your music.

Another way to increase views and gain recognition online, is to do covers. You need to get these properly recorded and then sync things up with a video done separately. I'm a big fan of this guy. He does acoustic cover songs and puts them on youtube and he has 50k+ views on most of his videos. Only thing that would make it better and more professional would be to properly record the songs. You always want professionalism in any and everything you do, never half ass anything or just throw something up for the sake of it. Also make sure you disclose in the info that you do not own the rights the song so they won't take it down.

So doing cover songs, you would still use the same method I first mentioned, and use the original video/song as the one your responding too. It helps to do really popular songs and you'll find people gravitating towards you if you can do a good job of recreating someone else's song. Another example and probably one of my favorite covers I've heard on youtube are these guys, they do a metal version of Cee-Lo Green's "F you song". And there's 100k views of people that would probably have never even heard of their name before.

And the cool thing about youtube is that if you eventually get enough people to subscribe and get enough consistent views and you can monetize your youtube video. This was the goal for my friend. Depending on how successful you are you can earn half a penny per view, get a penny per view, or 3 cents per views<<<only three payments I've seen. It takes time to build up but you can make some decent money to be doing nothing but making music and sharing it on the web.

The other idea with youtube is that more is better. And that's with anything on the web, the more things you have, the more likely someone will see you. The goal we shot for with my friend was to do 1 new song a week after we got his 7 or so original songs recorded and up. That's recording the acoustic songs, mixing and doing a rough master, recording a video, and syncing up the recording with the video.

After about 3 months or so and close to 25 videos up he got the email from youtube/google asking if he wished to monetize his youtube account and they were going to do a half penny a view. Well he was getting close to 1000 views a day total on his videos meaning he was making $5 a day. And of course as views go up you can potentially make more and more, there are youtube millionaires out there.


Real World

If your a solo artist specifically an acoustic artist, you have a lot of command of what you can do as far as playing venues, mostly because you can almost play anywhere and be accepted. You can play a bar, coffee house, music venue, special events.

Again I don't know if your an acoustic artist but, even if your not. You want to set-up a place somewhere, where you are playing once every two weeks. Like every other tuesday your going to do an acoustic show case at the bar down the street. And your going to get with the bar to offer $1 or $2 domestic draft beers to drive people in. Let your friends and family know your playing, but allow the bar to do some marketing as well. If it's a successful bar in the first place there's going to be people in there, and these are the types of places you want to play. The bars know there's going to be people there anyway, they're going to offer a good drink special to make sure people are going to come there instead of somewhere else and then they are hiring you as a entertainment. Discuss the idea of them doing a radio add 3-5 days prior to the date. It will cost them maybe $400 or so for a 5 30 second runs of their add a day.

Bars have the money to spend, having worked in them myself. We were making close to 20k+ a night on the weekends, and anywhere from 10-12k on weekdays. $400 in hopes of bringing even just 10 people in that wouldn't have come before breaks them even.

If you want to give me some more specific examples of what you hope to accomplish V, I can expand a little bit on some ideas.


Coming next...professionalism and local band collaboration
Last edited by scguitarking927 at Nov 12, 2011,
#12
some more:

Professionalism

A need for being professional doesn't just apply to anyone area, it applies to everything. Your in the music business, you are representing yourself as an artist, which is also a product, and trying to sell it to other people. If you don't represent yourself and act in a professional way, go a head and throw in the towel now.

Starting in the practice room

So before anything else happens when your playing in a band, your practicing your songs, writing new ones, and growing tighter as a band. It's the starting point to the journey. So lets define what practice is for. And this may sound stupid, but practice is a time for practice, nothing else. You may then ask "how are we expose to write songs?" Song writing in almost every case is done by one or two individuals in a band, it's just how it is, they take the creative direction of the band and just run with it. Everyone in the band will have a say in individual songs about their parts, but the main ideas of a song need to be made up before hand. Not in practice.

So when you come to a practice and say, I have a new song to present. You should have the basic chord progression, a map of the song (intro, verse, chorus, interlude, verse, guitar solo, chorus, etc). Know the key, know the tempo so you can get the drummer on the same page and have an idea of what sort of rhythmic feel you would like the song to have, know a rough idea of what a guitar solo would be. You get the idea. Have a plan, so your not just sitting there when it's time to actual practice and new song so your are all not just sitting around looking at each other. You'll never get anything done otherwise.

At your place of work

Also known as the venue. Your out in the public this is not a time to be pissing people off that have the ability to shut your aspiring career to rock stardom down in a matter of seconds. Always arrive to a gig 15 minutes before load in, it's going to take you 15 minutes to get all your stuff unpacked and put inside anyway.

Story time with relevance:
I actually was playing recently, I play in a RATM tribute around the S. East, and we arrived at a local venue here in South Carolina that we've played maybe 10 times, we show up load our stuff up on stage, and wait around, eating (etc) just waiting for the other band on the bill that was opening for us to get there. Our load in was at 7 and we went on at 10 for a 2 hour set. 8 o'clock arrives, still no other band. We give them a call, no answer...it's 8:45 and our vocalist gets a text saying they're on the way and will be there in 10 minutes...9:30 arrives...they finally get there...They take 30 minutes to load in and still haven't sound checked...30 minutes later they start sound check for them. So it's 10:30, our band was expose to start 30 minutes ago, and instead these guys are about to play for 45 minutes...they get up there, beers in hand, taking shots before starting, and finally start playing what must be the sloppiest band I have ever heard in my life. They finish up at 11:45, and then 15 minutes later we get up for our 2 hour set that was expose to be finished by the time we started. Bars in the city close at 2 a.m because of certain ordinances, so we had to cut our show short 30 minutes so we would have enough time to get out or there by 2. As I went into the office to get our check for the night, the owner thanked us for being courteous of the venues policies over the past year, and really enjoyed having us in there, and actually offered us a raise of our current pay rate for that venue, an extra $100 per show. Long story short, when the other band went back apparently the owner withheld the money they were offered and said they broke their agreement by showing up 3 1/2 hours late with no excuse at all, and there by forfeit their money. They flipped s*** and started trashing the place and the cops were called and they were arrested, needless to say we erased that contact and we won't be working with them again...maybe an extreme example, but at least twice a month, we'll play somewhere where a band just doesn't show or comes hours late with no excuse. There's no excuse for that, call and let the venue no if you can't make it, it's better than just not showing up.


Always be courteous to the owners and sound crew, these are the people I'm talking about when i say, they can crush your aspiring dream quickly and swiftly. It must have been 3 years ago, but I was playing at the main rock venue in town and we were on a 4 band bill. We back lined the gear and sound checked. During the process, one of the bands were just being complete asses to the sound engineer, just hassling him, getting in his way, moving his mic setup with out asking, everyone playing while the engineer was trying to set individual instrument levels. Just being plain rude to the guy. We were sitting next to the engineer just hanging out, when we over heard the sound guy say "f it". Looking at the stage shaking his head. He reached over for the talk back mic and said alright guys, your all set. (at this point he had only asked for the drummer to hit his snare lol). So no one else was leveled at all, he pushed the faders to 0db turned the gain maybe 30% up on each line and said, when ever you guys are ready...Needless to say they sounded like complete s***. They had pissed the guy off, he's a 50 something engineer dealing with a bunch of teenagers who were disrespecting him, he doesn't have to take their s*** and no one would blame him for it either.

ALWAYS GO TO THE VENUE OWNER/MANAGER AND THE SOUND ENGINEER AND THANK THEM WITH A FIRM HAND SHAKE AT THE END OF THE NIGHT!!!

On the local level, that's part of being a professional, be respectful to the people that have the power to control what you sound like and where you play.

If you don't know someone's name...learn it, address them by name!...don't just walk up to someone and say "hey, man thanks for everything." If you have to introduce yourself (obviously) if it's the first time meeting someone and learn their name that way.

Basically, don't waste anybodies time. Don't go into a recording session under prepared, not knowing parts, or just all around be goofing off on yours and someone else's dime. Don't show up hours late to a gig, be respectful to everyone. If someone disrespects you forget about it and don't work with them again.


Local Artist Collab coming next.
#13
Hey man, that's helluva nice info out there!

Do you happen to have a blog or something? cause you should I guess

I actually read your first post today a bit earlier but I guess I remember what I was going to say in general.

the internet thing is quite interesting and I didn't know youtube is paying people for views. Can you help me with some info on that?

and yes, being nice to a sound guy is one important thing. Not for that day only but later on when things accidentally go wrong and they need a quick replacement for a band... well especially for me, I found out they might often call out someone like me who plays alone since it's faster to organize and whatnot. Not only sound guys but just a random dude saying he knows a good guitarist isn't the same as a sound guy or someone along those lines .

ell instrumental artists aren't that in much demand in many cases, what type of instrumental/solo music are we talking here? Obviously it makes it harder if your a metal artist as apposed to an acoustic act. Marketing is a lot easier for solo acts, like if your an acoustic guitar player/singer, but even once they decided to play shows they generally have a backing band supporting them.

So the question is, do you specifically want to be an internet artist or do you want to play shows?


Ok well I'm a shred kind of guitarist, not the guys you think of when you hear SHRED, think along the lines of Buckethead and may be Paul Gilbert. Especially Buckethead cause I also play in a half mask ( the other half is sunglasses and all well whatever ) and yeah I play with backing tracks, play my own music most of the time or may be few covers from Buckethead but nobody knows those songs here anyways. I also do some random stuff like robot moves and idk random stuff really. Like I dont leave the place after I've played but go interact with the crowd, I don't talk actually so I answer their questions by writing on a paper or something like that. People love it but I found there aren't any gig opportunities over here. The bars rarely have live music and they often pull a "pay to play" thing on you. And so I'm trying to focus on internet more at this moment I think. I'm thinking of starting some cover campaign to attract more listeners but well we'll see how it goes with the covers

also I'm feeling quite lightheaded right now so sorry if what I wrote doesn't make sense
#14
Quote by Vendetta V


Do you happen to have a blog or something? cause you should I guess


the internet thing is quite interesting and I didn't know youtube is paying people for views. Can you help me with some info on that?



Haha, I guess I could start one if there's a demand for it, don't really know how much "helpful" info I could give until I just start rambling even more ha.


Yeah youtube does, well actually "Google", transferred their payment program for ads over to youtube when they bought them a few years ago. You basically become an "affiliate", I think that's the world they use.

If you've seen channels, where they have picture type backgrounds, not your normal youtube channels, those are monetized. You get sent code to edit your channel for better advertising your page. It also makes it so when ever your watching a video that all the other videos in the "suggestion" column to the right will also be from your channel, they won't just be random.

Takes a while to get into it, because you have to prove to them that you steadily upload videos and have a following, but it's a great program once you get in.

Trying to figure out some way to get into it myself , I'm just not as musically talented as a lot people. Been noticing lately I'm a much better at a lot of other things in the biz than actually playing
Last edited by scguitarking927 at Nov 15, 2011,
#15
Quote by scguitarking927
Haha, I guess I could start one if there's a demand for it, don't really know how much "helpful" info I could give until I just start rambling even more ha.


Yeah youtube does, well actually "Google", transferred their payment program for ads over to youtube when they bought them a few years ago. You basically become an "affiliate", I think that's the world they use.

If you've seen channels, where they have picture type backgrounds, not your normal youtube channels, those are monetized. You get sent code to edit your channel for better advertising your page. It also makes it so when ever your watching a video that all the other videos in the "suggestion" column to the right will also be from your channel, they won't just be random.

Takes a while to get into it, because you have to prove to them that you steadily upload videos and have a following, but it's a great program once you get in.

Trying to figure out some way to get into it myself , I'm just not as musically talented as a lot people. Been noticing lately I'm a much better at a lot of other things in the biz than actually playing

thanks yeah that's pretty much what I'm looking forward to getting into
I wonder how many views they'd want... I've got only something like 20,000 views and am uploading a lot of vids lately

anyawys how you doing? any new stuff coming up?
#16
Quote by Vendetta V
thanks yeah that's pretty much what I'm looking forward to getting into
I wonder how many views they'd want... I've got only something like 20,000 views and am uploading a lot of vids lately

anyawys how you doing? any new stuff coming up?

http://www.youtube.com/creators/partner.html

This is where you get started at YouTube.

Here is the FAQ

http://www.youtube.com/t/partnerships_benefits#qualifications

The big thing is analyze your audience and work that. You will be surprised at what you find out. I now know I am more popular in Japan, Poland, Brazil, Spain, UK, Argentina and the Netherlands than I am in the United States. That gives me some clues on the direction to push in.

Quote by scguitarking927
Another way to increase views and gain recognition online, is to do covers. You need to get these properly recorded and then sync things up with a video done separately. I'm a big fan of this guy. He does acoustic cover songs and puts them on youtube and he has 50k+ views on most of his videos. Only thing that would make it better and more professional would be to properly record the songs. You always want professionalism in any and everything you do, never half ass anything or just throw something up for the sake of it. Also make sure you disclose in the info that you do not own the rights the song so they won't take it down.


This is also a way to be disqualified from monetizing your videos, there are serious rules regarding posting cover versions of songs including proof of syncing and mechanical worldwide rights of the song.
We currently do not allow videos of artists singing cover songs into our partner program unless the artist has obtained full synchronization and performance rights. Cover songs are performances of songs that were previously recorded or commercially released by someone else. Read our Help Center article for more information.

Source: Partner Application FAQ, YouTube.com
Last edited by Quintex at Nov 18, 2011,
#17
Quote by Vendetta V
thanks yeah that's pretty much what I'm looking forward to getting into
I wonder how many views they'd want... I've got only something like 20,000 views and am uploading a lot of vids lately

anyawys how you doing? any new stuff coming up?


I'll post something up new soon when I get some time, just been beyond busy this week.


And yes quintex, I figured most people would realize that lol, you can't be making money off of other people's work with out paying the proper royalties. But thanks for pointing that out! Maybe not that obvious to some.

It's easy enough to go through places like AFTRA, CMMRA, Sound Exchange, SESAC, or ASCAP (think those cover the main ones around the world) and get the info and everything to properly set up. Or you can contact the publishing company or artist personally.
Last edited by scguitarking927 at Nov 18, 2011,
#20
Quote by Vendetta V
hmm so if you got videos with your original music but pieces from some horror movies then you won't qualify?


you would have to have the proper sync license with the production company of the film.
#22
Regarding the partner program, you pick which videos to "monetize" I believe. If there's a video of an original you could monetize that, and just not choose a cover video to be part of the program.

Though this might not be accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong.
#23
On getting cash from youtube, you put ads on the videos you want to make cash from, meaning ones that adhere to the rules given to you. (So no covers, no copyrighted material, etc.)

I've recently been emailed saying I may qualify for making cash from my youtube videos and I got all excited, read through the rules and stuff, all perfectly fine, but before you can do it you need to give a couple of "reference" videos and you get looked at before they approve it.

I mean, I may have been able to go through with it, but most of my popular videos are covers or something, I mean some gear reviews are pretty popular, but it'd be hard for me to get cash from it, what with the competitive nature of gear reviews, it's hard to compete when people like gearmandude are about!

Anyway. I get about 120 views per day on youtube. Which is another reason I haven't gone through with getting paid for my non-infringing videos. Out of those 120, lets say, 40 watch videos which would have ads.
40 a day. Now think, do you ever click the ads on youtube videos? I know I never do, unless I'm thinking "These guys deserve some cash from my click", which happens fairly rarely. So imagine maybe 5 a week or something click an ad on my video.
I'd probably earn like...70p a week or something.

Also, my drummer's mum works from home, on some educational website or something, and she has a blog along with it which gains cash from adsense, but apparently you don't actually see that cash til you hit a certain amount. So like, you'd get it in increments of like £50 or something (this is just a random figure, could be more, probably is less).
So in my proposed scenario, of 120 views a day, the lions share being views on videos which don't apply, very few clicks per week, it'd end up taking me months to see any cash.

So I'd say it's hardly worth it til you're raking in at least over 500 views a day.
And even then it'd trickle in slowly. It doesn't help that youtube strictly state you aren't allowed to ask people to click your ads (sure you could do it to people in person or something, I know that when/if I ever get the views to justify cash I'd tell friends to occasionally click the ads! But you aren't allowed to hint at the masses to click ads).
So you'd only get cash flowing in from either the effectiveness of the ads, or the kindness of people watching your videos.

Just my thoughts/semi-experience with adsense.
I think you need to make sure you don't put all your eggs in one basket when it comes to making cash off ads. Sure if you end up with half a million views per day for saying internet buzz words and playing simple classic rock guitar (not hinting at anyone or anything! ) then it's fine. But when you're in the boat of most people on UG, you need to have as much security in everything else as possible!

EDIT: Wow this post was long...
Last edited by Punk_Ninja at Nov 22, 2011,
#24
It's $10 before you can get a check. Which is a fairly low amount, I use adsense on one of my websites and make maybe $20-30 a month off of just word adds, of course there's 2500+ visitors a day.

Your not going to make any money from a couple thousand views a week, you need 10k+ a week or even better a day. The more views, the more an ad is worth, the more an ad is worth, the more you make. It takes work to get in a position to make money, but it's a fun and "technically' easy way to make money.

You can monetize full channels, this is of course much much much more difficult to do, but you can do it.
#25
Quote by scguitarking927
It's $10 before you can get a check. Which is a fairly low amount, I use adsense on one of my websites and make maybe $20-30 a month off of just word adds, of course there's 2500+ visitors a day.

Your not going to make any money from a couple thousand views a week, you need 10k+ a week or even better a day. The more views, the more an ad is worth, the more an ad is worth, the more you make. It takes work to get in a position to make money, but it's a fun and "technically' easy way to make money.

You can monetize full channels, this is of course much much much more difficult to do, but you can do it.


Ah right, thanks for clearing that up! I thought it was a bit more than that.

And exactly what I'm saying. I mean, my example of 500 views a day was only said as a point where you'd think about setting adsense up. You wouldn't get much at all, but what I'm saying is the same as what you're saying essentially, in that it's pointless to go through with it until you have the viewers.