Derren Brown's Guilt Trip - Manipulation in getting someone to admit to murder

Poll: Would you fall victim to this mind trick?
Poll Options
View poll results: Would you fall victim to this mind trick?
I wouldn't have fallen for that and therefore wouldn't have confessed
15 31%
I would have fallen for that but would not probably confess (i.e. do a runner)
2 4%
I would have fallen for that but would probably confess
7 14%
I can't really say whether or not I would have fallen for that
25 51%
Voters: 49.
Page 1 of 3
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvMOe9ODw2M

For those who don't know of Derren Brown, he's a famous British Magician who specialises in manipulation of the mind - everything he does is psychological. In this series (The Guilt Trip Experiment), he manipulates a guy into thinking he murdered someone. If you missed it, you can watch it above on Derren Brown's official Youtube page. Entertainment aside, the ethics of this show are terrible



SPOILER!


Did you guys watch this last nite? I can't believe how stupid that guy was. It was so obvious with some of the things that happened that I would have certainly known someone was trying to trick me. I mean - come on, changing my plate of food ( - honestly, I'd know and if you did that, I would throw a major fit). Also - the whole drunk thing and waking up outside, come on...

I can't say for sure but I don't think I'd ever fall victim to something like that. I'd work it out. It was quite funny how he even applied to be on the show - well, I guess he eventually got what he wanted
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#3
Quote by Harmonius
everything he does is psychological.

Nope - he's a magician. Everything he does is a trick, just like any other magician.
Hahahahahahahahahah hahahaha har har har
#4
Quote by Harmonius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvMOe9ODw2M

For those who don't know of Derren Brown, he's a famous British Magician who specialises in manipulation of the mind - everything he does is psychological. In this series (The Guilt Trip Experiment), he manipulates a guy into thinking he murdered someone. If you missed it, you can watch it above on Derren Brown's official Youtube page. Entertainment aside, the ethics of this show are terrible



SPOILER!


Did you guys watch this last nite? I can't believe how stupid that guy was. It was so obvious with some of the things that happened that I would have certainly known someone was trying to trick me. I mean - come on, changing my plate of food ( - honestly, I'd know and if you did that, I would throw a major fit). Also - the whole drunk thing and waking up outside, come on...

I can't say for sure but I don't think I'd ever fall victim to something like that. I'd work it out. It was quite funny how he even applied to be on the show - well, I guess he eventually got what he wanted



I prefer calling them conjurors of cheap tricks and charlatans.
#5
At any rate if the guy wasn't in on the trick its pretty unethical, reminds me a bit of the milgram experiment.
#6
Saw this one, and the next one; The Game Show was awesome too. At the end when the whole audience just shit themselves and realised what they'd done, and been doing
Derren Brown is a legend.
Last edited by SkepsisMetal at Nov 5, 2011,
#7
Quote by McTodd
Nope - he's a magician. Everything he does is a trick, just like any other magician.


Your reasoning skills are terrible . I take it you have never done a psychometric test. At no point did I say he wasn't a magician.
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#8
Quote by McTodd
Nope - he's a magician. Everything he does is a trick, just like any other magician.


Exactly, it's a trick, by using psychological tricks on them
He claims himself nothing he does is magic.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#9
Quote by Zeletros
I prefer calling them conjurors of cheap tricks and charlatans.


You are just no fun whatsoever.
I bet some people say "Hey, let's invite that Zeletros to the party!"
And the people who know you better are like "No, he's a complete tool"

I watched some of this stuff on Ch4 earlier, I haven't seen this latest show. Some of you who like to read, should read his books.


One of my favourites were by using subliminal suggestion he was able to pay for things with fake money(Essentially paper with the numbers written on)
On playing the Paul Gilbert signature at the guitar store extensively, my missus sighed:
"Put it down now, It's like you love that guitar more than me!"
In Which I replied.
"Well it has got two F-Holes!"
#10
Quote by Nameless742
You are just no fun whatsoever.
I bet some people say "Hey, let's invite that Zeletros to the party!"
And the people who know you better are like "No, he's a complete tool"

I watched some of this stuff on Ch4 earlier, I haven't seen this latest show. Some of you who like to read, should read his books.


One of my favourites were by using subliminal suggestion he was able to pay for things with fake money(Essentially paper with the numbers written on)


I love the ones where he starts talking to someone and then just goes, "can I borrow your wallet for a second?" and they just give him it.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#11
Quote by Nameless742

One of my favourites were by using subliminal suggestion he was able to pay for things with fake money(Essentially paper with the numbers written on)

I think the paper was actually completely blank.
#12
Quote by Nameless742
You are just no fun whatsoever.
I bet some people say "Hey, let's invite that Zeletros to the party!"
And the people who know you better are like "No, he's a complete tool"

I watched some of this stuff on Ch4 earlier, I haven't seen this latest show. Some of you who like to read, should read his books.


One of my favourites were by using subliminal suggestion he was able to pay for things with fake money(Essentially paper with the numbers written on)



How does me being not really positive about what they do, make me a tool?
#13
Also, you can't really say if you'd fall for it or not, he was obviously very confused, doubting his own mind and everything so you can't say for certain if it'd work on you.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#16
Quote by Harmonius
Your reasoning skills are terrible . I take it you have never done a psychometric test. At no point did I say he wasn't a magician.

No, you misunderstand me - you said "everything he does is psychological," and it isn't. What he does is mislead you with thinking he can do psychological stuff that just isn't possible. I've seen a lot of his recorded stage shows, and when he guesses what word you're thinking of for example, there's no psychological way he's doing that, no matter what he says - its a conjouring trick like any other. I'm not saying he's not talented, he's very good at the cold-reading stuff he does, and he clearly knows a lot about psychology, but that's not ALL he does, like you said.

Edit: also, fuck off with that comment about my reasoning skills, that was just uncalled for.
Hahahahahahahahahah hahahaha har har har
Last edited by McTodd at Nov 5, 2011,
#17
Quote by McTodd
No, you misunderstand me - you said "everything he does is psychological," and it isn't. What he does is mislead you with thinking he can do psychological stuff that just isn't possible. I've seen a lot of his recorded stage shows, and when he guesses what word you're thinking of for example, there's no psychological way he's doing that, no matter what he says - its a conjouring trick like any other. I'm not saying he's not talented, he's very good at the cold-reading stuff he does, and he clearly knows a lot about psychology, but that's not ALL he does, like you said.


When he guesses the word you're thinking of it's because he's been subliminally planting that into your head, for example, that show where he made people cut up the newspaper so he'd get the right word, he made sure by putting things around the stage so they'd put that exact word.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#18
Quote by McTodd
No, you misunderstand me - you said "everything he does is psychological," and it isn't. What he does is mislead you with thinking he can do psychological stuff that just isn't possible. I've seen a lot of his recorded stage shows, and when he guesses what word you're thinking of for example, there's no psychological way he's doing that, no matter what he says - its a conjouring trick like any other. I'm not saying he's not talented, he's very good at the cold-reading stuff he does, and he clearly knows a lot about psychology, but that's not ALL he does, like you said.

Edit: also, fuck off with that comment about my reasoning skills, that was just uncalled for.


- come on, it's a light joke LOL. Nah, seriously though - he uses a lot of psychology to manipulate you into thinking about a certain thing or in a certain way. He doesn't guess completely - probably does at the very end when he's certain he's got it or perhaps not guessing but again leading you to think about something specific so that he can get more clues without directly asking you.

Quote by WhiskeyFace
He's quite the genius.

EDIT: and saying you wouldn't fall for that is the equivalent of saying you can't be hypnotised.


Not really...actually not at all. Saying you wouldn't fall for it doesn't mean you can't be hypnotised at all. Saying you wouldn't fall for it means that you wouldn't fall for it on this particular ocassion.
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Last edited by Harmonius at Nov 5, 2011,
#19
Quote by Trowzaa
When he guesses the word you're thinking of it's because he's been subliminally planting that into your head, for example, that show where he made people cut up the newspaper so he'd get the right word, he made sure by putting things around the stage so they'd put that exact word.

That's exactly my point, he says/implies that's how he did it, but it can't possibly work like that. Subliminal suggestions don't work like that at all, there are so many things to take into account that there's a huge risk it would never work. He'd be foolish to pin the climax of his whole show on a trick that might not work, so of course there's something else going on.

You're free to disagree with me, I can't prove I'm right, but it is important to keep in mind: he's a stage magician. He says he never lies, but that's just what he says. I preferred his documentaries over his stage shows, because the stuff he does in them IS actually impressive, no matter how he does it.
Hahahahahahahahahah hahahaha har har har
#20
Quote by McTodd
That's exactly my point, he says/implies that's how he did it, but it can't possibly work like that. Subliminal suggestions don't work like that at all, there are so many things to take into account that there's a huge risk it would never work. He'd be foolish to pin the climax of his whole show on a trick that might not work, so of course there's something else going on.

You're free to disagree with me, I can't prove I'm right, but it is important to keep in mind: he's a stage magician. He says he never lies, but that's just what he says. I preferred his documentaries over his stage shows, because the stuff he does in them IS actually impressive, no matter how he does it.


I think the concern raised with your reasoning skills is that you seem to be getting the point backwards. You generally agree that he and a stage magician seem to do a lot of similar tricks that depend on misdirection, mentalism, showmanship and NLP. The point is that he refuses to call himself a magician, and refuses to call other magicians anything other than showmen and performers. He's publicly stated several times that he considers it dishonest to say his stuff is magic because there's simply no such thing, and he is disgusted when other magicians try to seriously pass off what they do as magic. Therefore, quite rightly, he reasons that he, and all other magicians simply should not be called that. It's a subtle and ultimately trivial point, but the point about reasoning was that there is definitely only one logical answer, no matter how trivial and practically pointless the distinction may be.
#21
i think most people would fall for it. NLP is incredibly powerful.

though the whole cluedo names seemed a bit obvious, i think i would have noticed that.
now extra flamey
#22
Quote by McTodd
That's exactly my point, he says/implies that's how he did it, but it can't possibly work like that. Subliminal suggestions don't work like that at all, there are so many things to take into account that there's a huge risk it would never work. He'd be foolish to pin the climax of his whole show on a trick that might not work, so of course there's something else going on.

You're free to disagree with me, I can't prove I'm right, but it is important to keep in mind: he's a stage magician. He says he never lies, but that's just what he says. I preferred his documentaries over his stage shows, because the stuff he does in them IS actually impressive, no matter how he does it.


I suppose you've got to be right, it's impressive regardless.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#23
Quote by LordBishek
I think the concern raised with your reasoning skills is that you seem to be getting the point backwards. You generally agree that he and a stage magician seem to do a lot of similar tricks that depend on misdirection, mentalism, showmanship and NLP. The point is that he refuses to call himself a magician, and refuses to call other magicians anything other than showmen and performers. He's publicly stated several times that he considers it dishonest to say his stuff is magic because there's simply no such thing, and he is disgusted when other magicians try to seriously pass off what they do as magic. Therefore, quite rightly, he reasons that he, and all other magicians simply should not be called that. It's a subtle and ultimately trivial point, but the point about reasoning was that there is definitely only one logical answer, no matter how trivial and practically pointless the distinction may be.

Point taken. It's still fundamentally dishonest of him, though, to claim he's doing something "psychological" even though it's nothing of the sort. If he's opposed to calling it "magic" and would rather call it what it is, he should call it "conjouring tricks," not something "psychological".

I agree that it's not traditional "magic", but only because I get the impression that he's trying to distance himself from it. Everyone knows magicians just do tricks and magic isn't real, and he'd rather you think that his tricks ARE real, even when they're not.

Quote by Trowzaa
I suppose you've got to be right, it's impressive regardless.

Totally agreed, he's a brilliant showman. I loved his documentaries exposing psychics, simply by mimicing them and explaining how he did it.
Hahahahahahahahahah hahahaha har har har
Last edited by McTodd at Nov 5, 2011,
#24
Quote by Harmonius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvMOe9ODw2M



SPOILER!


Did you guys watch this last nite? I can't believe how stupid that guy was. It was so obvious with some of the things that happened that I would have certainly known someone was trying to trick me. I mean - come on, changing my plate of food ( - honestly, I'd know and if you did that, I would throw a major fit). Also - the whole drunk thing and waking up outside, come on...

I can't say for sure but I don't think I'd ever fall victim to something like that. I'd work it out. It was quite funny how he even applied to be on the show - well, I guess he eventually got what he wanted


You probably only think that because you were looking from the outside, like with the food, even if you did raise issue with it, everyone would act like nothing happened.

Anyway, i would have done a few things differently, like with the necklace, i would have probably left it in an obvious place around the hotel and waited for someone to find it.
WHOMP

Think of that next time you are not allowed to laugh.
#26
Quote by Alex Vik
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Yay youtube -_-


Just use a proxy from the UK, that's what I'm doing.
#28
Quote by add_g
It says it's the video's not available in my country


Just use a proxy from the UK, that's what I'm doing.
#29
i think ts overestimates herself, you'd be surprised how stupid you can be given a series of associative events and occurrences, especially seen as derren brown's been specializing in magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship for almost 15 years now. this was just another day in his schedule, he had probably forgotten he applied for a derren brown show anyway.
"I specialize in driving a set like I'm driving a Lexus" - Uncle Mez
#30
Quote by Harmonius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvMOe9ODw2M

For those who don't know of Derren Brown, he's a famous British Magician who specialises in manipulation of the mind - everything he does is psychological. In this series (The Guilt Trip Experiment), he manipulates a guy into thinking he murdered someone. If you missed it, you can watch it above on Derren Brown's official Youtube page. Entertainment aside, the ethics of this show are terrible



SPOILER!


Did you guys watch this last nite? I can't believe how stupid that guy was. It was so obvious with some of the things that happened that I would have certainly known someone was trying to trick me. I mean - come on, changing my plate of food ( - honestly, I'd know and if you did that, I would throw a major fit). Also - the whole drunk thing and waking up outside, come on...

I can't say for sure but I don't think I'd ever fall victim to something like that. I'd work it out. It was quite funny how he even applied to be on the show - well, I guess he eventually got what he wanted

It's easy to say that when you know what's going on.
#31
Quote by Zeletros
How does me being not really positive about what they do, make me a tool?


Because it's all just a bit of fun, man. It's like refering to comedians as "Tellers of exaggerated stupidity-based stories"
Quote by ChadLikesGuitar
even now, an 8 year old could go download gorilla rape porn and jack off to it.
#32
Quote by So-Cal
It's easy to say that when you know what's going on.


This, you have to think about it from his perspective. The people around him are all high-profile people there for a serious purpose from his perspective, not his friends or someone related to him similarly that would do something like move him outside, or swap his food. If he knew they were going to try to make him confess to murder from the start, do you really think he would have fell for it?

I think I would have fell for it hard.
#33
Fair point - I can't argue with what you guys are saying in that it's easier to see from the outside but changing my food.... I can confidently and honesty say, I would have noticed that someone was tricking me. If you like food as much as I do, I'm sorry - you really would have noticed too - the food is probably the first thing I'd inspect on that table giving my distinctive pallet (i'm very picky with my food, completely no seafood or things touching each other). The only thing that may be a stumbling block for me is the getting drunk part.
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Last edited by Harmonius at Nov 5, 2011,
#35
Quote by Harmonius
Fair point - I can't argue with what you guys are saying in that it's easier to see from the outside but changing my food.... I can confidently and honesty say, I would have noticed that someone was tricking me. If you like food as much as I do, I'm sorry - you really would have noticed too.


after he put half a fish in his mouth the second time, he had it in his mind that he ate some fish, after that, it's just the power of what's infront of you that would have made his mind fill in the blanks. i doubt you're an exception.
"I specialize in driving a set like I'm driving a Lexus" - Uncle Mez
#36
Quote by laid-to-waste
after he put half a fish in his mouth the second time, he had it in his mind that he ate some fish, after that, it's just the power of what's infront of you that would have made his mind fill in the blanks. i doubt you're an exception.


You can say what you want but I know myself and I doubt I would have fallen for that. Everyone knows themselves but you can't say that I would or wouldn't have fallen for that.
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#37
Quote by Harmonius
Fair point - I can't argue with what you guys are saying in that it's easier to see from the outside but changing my food.... I can confidently and honesty say, I would have noticed that someone was tricking me. If you like food as much as I do, I'm sorry - you really would have noticed too. The only thing that may be a stumbling block for me is the getting drunk part.


Yeah, that's the point. He did notice. He asked people around him about his food. And if he had asked them if they had swapped it, they were all eating almost the exact same thing, and could have easily said they didn't swap. It's not that he didn't notice, it's that he tried to make sense of it and piece it together using what he had already known. The people there would never done something like that from what he had seen of them. This led him to believe his memory was wrong, and just accepted it.

It's why lucid dreaming takes a ton of practice, your brain is incredible at piecing things together even if they make absolutely no sense.
Last edited by SlayingDragons at Nov 5, 2011,
#38
Quote by Harmonius
You can say what you want but I know myself and I doubt I would have fallen for that. Everyone knows themselves but you can't say that I would or wouldn't have fallen for that.


he actually did notice half of his fish disappearing. convincing actors rendered his ideas ridiculous, and so did him doubting his own memory and probably still tasting fish in his mouth from his last bite. next are ya gonna say i don't know you so i wouldn't know whether a bullet would kill you if somebody shot you in the head? this has little to nothing to do with your personality, it's universal misdirection.
"I specialize in driving a set like I'm driving a Lexus" - Uncle Mez
#39
I still think it's not anyone's position to say whether I would or would not have fallen for that. I would have thrown a fit. This is entirely a subjective situation of knowing yourself and how succeptible you are to influence.
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Last edited by Harmonius at Nov 5, 2011,
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