#1
Hey all

I have a 600w head and when I play it in certain rooms, it sounds like poopy

Believe me, its not an acoustic issue. The amp is just has that sort of...underpowered sound if you know what I mean, in certain rooms. The only theory I can come up with is that the amp cant draw enough power and I need an isolated power supply.

But is 600w enough to cause this issue? ...

Then again electricity is a funny thing...

Any thoughts?
#2
can you explain why you even need a 600w head?
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#3
Quote by matt360
can you explain why you even need a 600w head?


Once youve played some large venue gigs, we'll talk. My rig is actually on the small side for what I do
#4
An amp only draws as much as it needs to, it is not constantly drawing 600w,and I dont see how you'd ever have a 600w amp cranked. Even so, i suppose that could cause an issue if it happened
#5
If it didn't get enough electricity it would try to suck out more than it can get and blow the fuses. At least I can't see how something could be running on less power than it needs?
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#6
Quote by Charley2715
An amp only draws as much as it needs to, it is not constantly drawing 600w,and I dont see how you'd ever have a 600w amp cranked. Even so, i suppose that could cause an issue if it happened


Lets say Im drawing 400w. Is that enough to fvck shit up?

^Think of like...a flashlight thats low on batteries. The light is still on, but its not as bright as it should be
#7
No, that's not how electronics work. A flashlight with dead batteries (voltage is lower than it was initially) causes less current to flow since the resistance is a constant and Ohm's law is the bomb. An amp will draw as much current as it needs. If it tries to draw more than a source can handle, that source will blow unless it's protected by a fuse. And the 600w rating is for output power. The input power can be found on the back of the chassis and using the power formula, you can figure out how much current your amp is drawing.

Your issue is entirely based in acoustics or psychological trickery.
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#8
Quote by mmolteratx


Your issue is entirely based in acoustics or psychological trickery.


*ding ding ding ding* We have a winner!!!

Psychacoustics are not as simple as you think, and neither are room acoustics.
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#9
Quote by Killerfridge
*ding ding ding ding* We have a winner!!!

Psychacoustics are not as simple as you think, and neither are room acoustics.


Ugh. Shit must be reflecting and canceling itself out up in that bitch

Okay, back to the drawing board
#10
How about having the amplifier checked out by a qualified technician before you all devolve into an argument about whether this is all a matter of perception? This is why doctors don't diagnose patients over the phone. Speculation isn't likely to help. Your amplifier seems to have something wrong with it. Take it to a pro and see if it does in fact have something wrong with it. One of the components may be on the fritz.
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#11
What amp is it and what cab/s with what impedance are you using?
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#12
Quote by consecutive e
What amp is it and what cab/s with what impedance are you using?

This. Seems like it would be an obvious cause of a problem.
#13
Mixing and matching cabs of different brands etc that weren't built to go together (specifically ones with different speaker dimensions) can cause problems with volume loss because of phase issues. Rather than working together to make the signal louder (constructive interference) as occurs when you stack two matching cabs on top of each other, sometimes phase issues can cause them to cancel each other out slightly (destructive interference) resulting in a loss of loudness. Knowing what gear it is that you're using would help.


Quote by matt360
can you explain why you even need a 600w head?


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Last edited by Ziphoblat at Nov 9, 2011,
#14
The amp works fine, it's a room issue, and I know how to match cabs etc. They are the same brand , two 2x10s stacked vertically like a good little boy. It's gotto be acoustic issues because it's specific rooms
#15
Quote by chantastic
The amp works fine, it's a room issue, and I know how to match cabs etc.

Humor us then.
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Last edited by consecutive e at Nov 11, 2011,
#17
Quote by chantastic
The amp works fine, it's a room issue, and I know how to match cabs etc. They are the same brand , two 2x10s stacked vertically like a good little boy. It's gotto be acoustic issues because it's specific rooms


I'd definitely say it's a reflection/positioning problem.

http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/understanding-room-acoustics.htm

http://barefacedbass.com/bgm-columns.htm

The guy who started Barefaced Bass knows what he's talking about - you might find some info to help you in these columns and stuff.
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#18
Quote by consecutive e
Humor us then.


Its 2 8 ohm cabinets, the head is running at 4 ohms. Its self rating so theres no way for me to **** it up. Especially since its rated all the way down to two ohms. The cabinets are matching, so theres no way they are out of phase
#19
Quote by chantastic
Its 2 8 ohm cabinets, the head is running at 4 ohms. Its self rating so theres no way for me to **** it up. Especially since its rated all the way down to two ohms. The cabinets are matching, so theres no way they are out of phase

You have them in parallel, right?
#20
Quote by edgeyyz
You have them in parallel, right?


Ive put them in series and parallel and the problem persists. I keep them in parallel for day to day use
#21
Quote by chantastic
Once youve played some large venue gigs, we'll talk. My rig is actually on the small side for what I do

You shouldn't be quite so chippy to people who are trying to help you.

Your amp isn't small if it is a 600W amp. You should be able to produce enough bass to drown out the drummer several times over. You are capable of being loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss so going louder isn't a sensible option anyway. If you really are playing big venues then you have to go through the PA.

Your amp won't be drawing enough power to significantly affect the mains though if the whole band are using a single socket and you have lights connected then collectively you could be drawing enough current to cause this effect. It really isn't very likely though.

You don't say what amp or speakers you are using. Some amps are advertised as being 600W but aren't 600W by any standard measuring system.

Who say's you are too quiet? if the problem is that you can't hear yourself over the rest of the band then that is very different to what the audience may be experiencing. Ask someone you trust to stand 2/3 the way back in the audience and judge if you are too loud or quiet. If you are plenty loud enough then there are different solutions to let you hear your own playing. If you are loud enough to hear yourself but the audience can't hear then the answer lies in the PA.

Look at your eq settings. Do you play with any bass boost. this will severely limit your power. 3db of bass boost will halve the power at other frequencies if the amp is overloading. 15dB of bass boost will reduce the available power by 32x!

Give a few more details and we can sort out your problems. It probably isn't the amp so the problem is your speakers, room acoustics or psychology.
#22
Quote by chantastic
Its 2 8 ohm cabinets, the head is running at 4 ohms. Its self rating so theres no way for me to **** it up. Especially since its rated all the way down to two ohms. The cabinets are matching, so theres no way they are out of phase



So really you aren't running a 600 watt head, you're at around your 400 you mentioned, maybe add another cab then, but I think the guy above me said it pretty well.
#23
Quote by Phil Starr
You shouldn't be quite so chippy to people who are trying to help you.

Your amp isn't small if it is a 600W amp. You should be able to produce enough bass to drown out the drummer several times over. You are capable of being loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss so going louder isn't a sensible option anyway. If you really are playing big venues then you have to go through the PA.

Your amp won't be drawing enough power to significantly affect the mains though if the whole band are using a single socket and you have lights connected then collectively you could be drawing enough current to cause this effect. It really isn't very likely though.

You don't say what amp or speakers you are using. Some amps are advertised as being 600W but aren't 600W by any standard measuring system.

Who say's you are too quiet? if the problem is that you can't hear yourself over the rest of the band then that is very different to what the audience may be experiencing. Ask someone you trust to stand 2/3 the way back in the audience and judge if you are too loud or quiet. If you are plenty loud enough then there are different solutions to let you hear your own playing. If you are loud enough to hear yourself but the audience can't hear then the answer lies in the PA.

Look at your eq settings. Do you play with any bass boost. this will severely limit your power. 3db of bass boost will halve the power at other frequencies if the amp is overloading. 15dB of bass boost will reduce the available power by 32x!

Give a few more details and we can sort out your problems. It probably isn't the amp so the problem is your speakers, room acoustics or psychology.


Lol...

1. Someone who doesnt know why a bassist needs a 600w amp couldnt help probably

2. I know that Ive never run my amp at the full 600w. I usually run it at 8 ohms with one 2x10 at 200w. I specifically bought it so I wouldnt HAVE to run it at 600w

3. Ever played in an afrobeat band? Two drummers, auxillery (spell checks not working) percussion and a horn section brah. You need a lot of volume for that shit

4. Its not a volume issue, its a tone issue. Im heard, but in certain practice settings, Im not pleased with the sound

5. Yes, many venues have nice big PA's. Sometimes, however, they are very shitty, or dont have enough inputs to have the luxury of putting bass in in PA (especially when your in a group with lots of horns mic'ed)

6. Never use bass boost. Im a pure tone guy (mostly) with a little bump in the curve around the 150hz range

7. Its not the speakers, its a room issue because the problem only exists in certain rooms

Thank you for trying to help, but Im not an idiot. The answer to this isnt a simple/obviois fix, otherwise I probably wouldnt have asked the internet
Last edited by chantastic at Nov 14, 2011,
#24
Quote by chantastic
Lol...

1. Someone who doesnt know why a bassist needs a 600w amp couldnt help probably

2. I know that Ive never run my amp at the full 600w. I usually run it at 8 ohms with one 2x10 at 200w. I specifically bought it so I wouldnt HAVE to run it at 600w


Your kind of a dick

And how does that even make sense? Are you saying you bought a 600 watt amp because the lower ohm setting still has power to it?

You scoff at us for thinking your amp is overkill, then you say you're playing at around 200 watts with a 2x10... I know you say it's not a volume issue, but you really aren't playing a rig best for what you described yourself playing.

If it is a room to room issue, all anyone can say is EQ your mystery amp to fit, having never set foot in the room or seen it.

I don't think anyone really wants to help you anymore, because you'll just say we're wasting your time...
#25
I agree with with askrere - you're being a dick, and it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. You say

Quote by chantastic
1. Someone who doesnt know why a bassist needs a 600w amp couldnt help probably


And then within 3 sentences say:

Quote by chantastic
I specifically bought it so I wouldnt HAVE to run it at 600w


Here's another example of your stupidity:

Quote by chantastic
You need a lot of volume for that shit


Then

Quote by chantastic
one 2x10 at 200w


So...you don't need that many watts and you actually use a fairly small rig? Well done.

And then you chide people for questioning your, quite frankly ridiculous decisions?

So it has changed from a volume issue to a tone issue - then it will be the room. Why in hell would you think it would be related to the power supply?
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#26
Oh god, how did I know this would end up happening. I have a 600 watt amp so I can run it at 200 and 400 watts very cleanly. This is incredibly common. Tone and volume are not mutually exclusive. Volume issues can be reflections of tone issues. Some amps DO need isolated power supplies (some high powered Eden stuff for example) I ask because the rooms I'm having problems with happen to be ones where I'm running 4 or 2 ohms (400, 600w respectively approximately)

P.S. Owning two small cabs and only putting them together when you need the volume is almost becoming very common. Thus, my owning two 2x10s and a 1x15. Saves your back

P.S.S. Electricity is a funny thing
Last edited by chantastic at Nov 14, 2011,
#27
Quote by chantastic
Oh god, how did I know this would end up happening. I have a 600 watt amp so I can run it at 200 and 400 watts very cleanly. This is incredibly common. Tone and volume are not mutually exclusive. Volume issues can be reflections of tone issues. Some amps DO need isolated power supplies (some high powered Eden stuff for example) I ask because the rooms I'm having problems with happen to be ones where I'm running 4 or 2 ohms (400, 600w respectively approximately)

P.S. Owning two small cabs and only putting them together when you need the volume is almost becoming very common. Thus, my owning two 2x10s and a 1x15. Saves your back

P.S.S. Electricity is a funny thing


I understand precisely why you're using a 600W amp, don't worry.

Out of curiosity, what amps and cabs are you using?

I still think it's a cancellation/placement problem!
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#28
Quote by Nutter_101
I understand precisely why you're using a 600W amp, don't worry.

Out of curiosity, what amps and cabs are you using?

I still think it's a cancellation/placement problem!


Kustom 600 hd, 2 markbass 2x10s and a random carvin 1x15. I try to put my rig in a corner facing outward when it's possible
#29
Quote by chantastic
Kustom 600 hd, 2 markbass 2x10s and a random carvin 1x15. I try to put my rig in a corner facing outward when it's possible


Sounds like a pretty solid setup, and your placement seems pretty good. There's no real way of telling what's going on without some sound measurement, so I guess we've got to chalk this up to "bleh?".

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#30
Quote by chantastic
Oh god, how did I know this would end up happening. I have a 600 watt amp so I can run it at 200 and 400 watts very cleanly. This is incredibly common. Tone and volume are not mutually exclusive. Volume issues can be reflections of tone issues. Some amps DO need isolated power supplies (some high powered Eden stuff for example) I ask because the rooms I'm having problems with happen to be ones where I'm running 4 or 2 ohms (400, 600w respectively approximately)

P.S. Owning two small cabs and only putting them together when you need the volume is almost becoming very common. Thus, my owning two 2x10s and a 1x15. Saves your back

P.S.S. Electricity is a funny thing


You know, I asked exactly if that's what you meant. It's taken two pages of you vaguely explaining your problem only giving a little information at a time, then treating us like backwater dumb asses for every incorrect diagnoses, are you Gregory House M.D.?

Wouldn't it have been much easier to say hello, I play in an afrobeat band, and have a lot of musicians competing with me sonically, specifically horns and percussion. My bass rig is capable of this and I use it like this. My problem is this...
Last edited by askrere at Nov 14, 2011,
#31
Quote by askrere
You know, I asked exactly if that's what you meant. It's taken two pages of you vaguely explaining your problem only giving a little information at a time, then treating us like backwater dumb asses for every incorrect diagnoses, are you Gregory House M.D.?

Wouldn't it have been much easier to say hello, I play in an afrobeat band, and have a lot of musicians competing with me sonically, specifically horns and percussion. My bass rig is capable of this and I use it like this. My problem is this...


Its irrelevant what groups Im playing with, the problem is room based, not ensemble based. I gave everyone a good amount of info upfront to solve the problem, and then I gave the other tidbits needed shortly after when I realized I didnt give a ton of info. Which is why we figured out what it was within like 10 posts. Then people started freaking out because Im running a 600w amp at 2 ohms
Last edited by chantastic at Nov 14, 2011,
#32
Quote by Killerfridge
Here's another example of your stupidity:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

BTW, i'm glad this thread is finally going somewhere... still, TS, you've been a dick... please be nicer like everyone else around here. it's not that hard.


thanks.
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#33
Quote by Sudaka
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

BTW, i'm glad this thread is finally going somewhere... still, TS, you've been a dick... please be nicer like everyone else around here. it's not that hard.


thanks.


Read the whole thread. It was over like, 10 posts in. Then all of a sudden...haters. Playa haters everywhere

Thank you nutter for the links. Everyone should read them
Last edited by chantastic at Nov 14, 2011,
#34
Quote by chantastic
Read the whole thread. It was over like, 10 posts in. Then all of a sudden...haters. Playa haters everywhere

Thank you nutter for the links. Everyone should read them

Basically the problem is that you are not a very good bass player, it's come down to your technique

Maybe get a teacher, don't cheap out though you don't want to start of with bad technique!

Good luck!
#35
Quote by Bass First
Basically the problem is that you are not a very good bass player, it's come down to your technique

Maybe get a teacher, don't cheap out though you don't want to start of with bad technique!

Good luck!



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