#1
How come the pentatonic scale in A minor doesn't fit into an A minor backing track? Instead when I play the pentatonic minor in just A it fits perfectly. I know that when I play the scale in A it's actually A minor but shouldn't they both work, or does the minor scale work as some sort of a double negative and turn the minors into majors?
#2
Quote by HaistaPaska92
How come the pentatonic scale in A minor doesn't fit into an A minor backing track? Instead when I play the pentatonic minor in just A it fits perfectly. I know that when I play the scale in A it's actually A minor but shouldn't they both work, or does the minor scale work as some sort of a double negative and turn the minors into majors?

What are you asking exactly?

It fits perfectly over an Am backing track, seeing as the scale consists of the five most consonant notes in the key. Are you sure you're playing the right scale and that the backing track is actually in Am?
#3
exactly.. a minor pentatonic has all 5 notes that A minor has.

Probably you are playing A major pentatonic or as said: are you sure the track is in
A minor ?

Check this article out :

http://www.guitarlearningtips.org/music-theory/the-pentatonic-scale/

And this one to understand better the pentatonic scale:

http://www.guitarlearningtips.org/guitar-technique/the-pentatonic-scale-chart/
#4
Quote by :-D
What are you asking exactly?

It fits perfectly over an Am backing track, seeing as the scale consists of the five most consonant notes in the key. Are you sure you're playing the right scale and that the backing track is actually in Am?

The backing track I played over said it was in Am. I tried to play the first position of the pentatonic minor scale in Am, meaning I started on the 4th fret on the low E string but it just sounded off. When I started on the 5th fret it sounded alright.

Here is the backing track I played over
#5
Quote by HaistaPaska92
The backing track I played over said it was in Am. I tried to play the first position of the pentatonic minor scale in Am, meaning I started on the 4th fret on the low E string but it just sounded off. When I started on the 5th fret it sounded alright.

Well there's your problem. If you started a pentatonic shape on the fourth fret, you'd be playing an Ab minor pentatonic.
#6
That backing track is in C Major. Playing the shape at the 5th fret is correct, but that's not A Minor Pentatonic, you're playing C Major Pentatonic shape 5.
#7
Quote by :-D
Well there's your problem. If you started a pentatonic shape on the fourth fret, you'd be playing an Ab minor pentatonic.

And that's wrong? Do you mean that the minor pentatonic scale cannot be played in sharp or flat keys?

EDIT: NVM, I looked up a Ab backing track. Totally get what you mean now
Last edited by HaistaPaska92 at Nov 11, 2011,
#8
Quote by mdc
That backing track is in C Major. Playing the shape at the 5th fret is correct, but that's not A Minor Pentatonic, you're playing C Major Pentatonic shape 5.

So are those 2 scales basically the same?
#9
I think your got the wrong concept of keys. To play an Am pentatonic scale, you start from the note A (5th fret) NOT Ab which is another different note. Am is the relative minor scale of the C major scale. From what I know, yes they are indeed the same scale just starts on a different note.
#10
Quote by Bo_Pollock
I think your got the wrong concept of keys. To play an Am pentatonic scale, you start from the note A (5th fret) NOT Ab which is another different note. Am is the relative minor scale of the C major scale. From what I know, yes they are indeed the same scale just starts on a different note.

Thanks, I did what the dudes here already told me and I think I got it now. Even though I've only been playing for a year I get anxious when I have difficulties with concepts. I just get a feeling that I'm supposed to know more somehow
#11
Quote by HaistaPaska92
So are those 2 scales basically the same?

They contain the same notes, but that's where the relationship ends. That title of that backing track is a little misleading. It should be entitled just "C Major backing track."
#12
I find that it's generally better to think of scales and chords as formulas rather than notes on a fretboard.
Quote by Jesus
Gaza Strip- home. At least it was before I fucked ereythang up...
#13
Quote by JimDawson
I find that it's generally better to think of scales and chords as formulas rather than notes on a fretboard.

What do you mean by formulas?
#14
Quote by HaistaPaska92
What do you mean by formulas?

Intervals that lie within the scale. That's why C major and A Minor are not the same scale, because the spacing between the intervals are different.

The formula is a sequence of tones and semitones.
Quote by Jimdawson
I find that it's generally better to think of scales and chords as formulas rather than notes on a fretboard.

Thinking in terms of formula's for scales is fine, but for chords, intervals is better.
Last edited by mdc at Nov 11, 2011,
#15
Quote by mdc
Intervals that lie within the scale. That's why C major and A Minor are not the same scale, because the spacing between the intervals are different.

The formula is a sequence of tones and semitones.

Like the way that the pentatonic minor scales intervals are root note, 1½ steps, 1 step, 1 step, 1½ steps and 1 step back to the root?
#16
Quote by HaistaPaska92
Like the way that the pentatonic minor scales intervals are root note, 1½ steps, 1 step, 1 step, 1½ steps and 1 step back to the root?

Yes, exactly.
#17
Quote by mdc
Yes, exactly.

OK. Well thanks for all the answers, this cleared a few misconceptions for me. Could I trouble you a bit further by asking what the relative major/minor thing is? I would be very grateful.
#18
Quote by HaistaPaska92
Could I trouble you a bit further by asking what the relative major/minor thing is? I would be very grateful.

Well, they are labelled as "relative" because they share the same key signature, which is different from "key".

That backing track could easily have been in the "key" of A Minor as well, if the chord progression was different (same chords, different order). Either way, the music score for that will have the same key "signature".
Last edited by mdc at Nov 11, 2011,
#19
Quote by mdc
Well, they are labelled as "relative" because they share the same key signature, which is different from "key".

That backing track could easily have been in the "key" of A Minor as well, if the chord progression was different (same chords, different order). Either way, the music score for that will have the same key "signature".

I don't really understand the concept of key signatures either. I think it's like the scales have the same number of sharps and flats. Sorry I'm asking so much, I'm just a complete noob when it comes to theory
#20
Quote by HaistaPaska92
I don't really understand the concept of key signatures either. I think it's like the scales have the same number of sharps and flats.

Yes, that's a little vague, but you have the idea. Just take a step back and study two things in particular. Intervals, and the Major Scale. Those two things before anything else, and you'll have a solid foundation, and the fundamental knowledge to build from.
Sorry I'm asking so much, I'm just a complete noob when it comes to theory
Not at all dude. This is why MT exists!
#21
Quote by mdc
Yes, that's a little vague, but you have the idea. Just take a step back and study two things in particular. Intervals, and the Major Scale. Those two things before anything else, and you'll have a solid foundation, and the fundamental knowledge to build from.

Thanks. Will do
#22
Quote by HaistaPaska92
I don't really understand the concept of key signatures either. I think it's like the scales have the same number of sharps and flats. Sorry I'm asking so much, I'm just a complete noob when it comes to theory


Study basic theory and if you have questions - i.e. small, manageable questions that can be answered clearly - whilst learning post them here.

But at the moment it seems that your knowledge is lacking too much to be covered in a post, or even a thread.

It will take time to grasp the basics but that was true for all of us.
#23
Quote by HaistaPaska92
What do you mean by formulas?


Okay, I don't know about my terminology but what I meant by formula was stuff like:

1,3,b7,9

You know, that kind of notation that names the intervals. It's confusing as hell to think of it as 2 step, 3 step, 2 step!
Quote by Jesus
Gaza Strip- home. At least it was before I fucked ereythang up...
#24
Quote by HaistaPaska92
How come the pentatonic scale in A minor doesn't fit into an A minor backing track? Instead when I play the pentatonic minor in just A it fits perfectly. I know that when I play the scale in A it's actually A minor but shouldn't they both work, or does the minor scale work as some sort of a double negative and turn the minors into majors?



It should, is there a reason that it doesn't?

Are you sure the Key is A minor as the backing track?

When you have a track based of a minor key, it's quite common the have the chords in the song derived from Harmonic Minor. So, for example, if you have an Am and then they use an E or E7, while not diatonic to Natural minor, the use of the major 7th, (G#) may be what's throwing your ear, in which case, its a matter of understanding the big picture, as A Minor, even in the pentatonic sense, uses the b7.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Nov 11, 2011,
#25
TS, fyi I decided to transcribe the progression for you

C - G/B - Am - Am/G - Fmaj7 - G
C - Am - Em11 - Gadd9

For the acoustic picking part is the same, just with added colour.

C - G/B - Am - Am/G - Fmaj7 - (G - Gsus4 - G)
Cadd9 - Am9 - Em - G

If you'd like me to tab out some of the voicing's I'd be happy to.

There's no E7 in there to worry about. All chords are diatonic.

Here are G/B, Am/G, Em11, and Gadd9. The (G - Gsus4 - G) is the bold one.
----5-5-----
3-1-3-0-----[B]0-1-3[/B]
0-2-4-0-----[B]0-0-0[/B]
0-2-5-0-----[B]0-0-0[/B]
2---------------
--3-0-3-----[B]3-3-3[/B]
Last edited by mdc at Nov 12, 2011,