#1
Originally Posted by se012101
There is a big difference. At 80 bpm, even though you can play it cleanly , you are still using muscle memory - you are not really "telling" your fingers how to move, they are just repeating the learned movements. At extreme slow tempos, such as 25bpm, you actually are able to consciously tell the fingers what to do, which is essential if you are trying to make a technique modification.


So ive been trying this for a couple hours a day ( all my left hand excercises and some right hand ones)

IT IS FRIGGIN AMAZING.
i would love to have statistical data to make some claims, but sadly i just have my own experience which accounts for nothing in science.

Anyways science ignored im gonna actually claim that it reduces the time it takes you to learn something by around 100%

hell yeah! instead of spending 2 hours mastering a certain riff by ripping through it, you can get it down in 1 hour by playing like a granny.. (i keep track of the time i spend on each individual excercise and that seemed to be the pattern - varied a lot on different excercises)

Try it and muster the patience to do your technique excercises insanely slow for around an hour.. you wont regret it.
20 bpm.. 40 bpm max.
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
Last edited by Slashiepie at Nov 12, 2011,
#2
Thanks for sharing this, will definitely try it. I always noticed how 'ripping' through a riff, as you say, was not as good as learning it slow. I think one of the reasons is that if we always play something fast which we cannot play fast and do mistakes, we learn to do it with mistakes and it is worthless. I'm not in the writing mood today, but you know what I mean.
#4
I asked this in the 21 day challenge thread but I don't think anyone reads the end of it - basically, I was thinking of trying this out - is it best to do it for an exercise, a song you don't know how to play, or one you do know how to play but want to improve on.? I was thinking exercises directed at specific things (e.g. 3 notes per string scales) to practice my left hand technique and my alt picking.

Also, 25-40bpm can be faster depending on the type of note, e.g. quarter notes. Wouldn't it be best to define it as the maximum number of notes per second? So for example if I'm doing 16th triplets at 40bpm, that's the same as 8th triplets at 80bpm.
ESP Horizon FR II (EMG) / Ibanez Prestige RG1570 (DiMarzio Crunch Lab & LiquiFire pickups)
#5
do it for a song, because the whole point of practicing something for 21 days is to have achieved something at the end of it - exercises are only a means to an end on the guitar, not the end itself.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#6
Quote by steven seagull
do it for a song, because the whole point of practicing something for 21 days is to have achieved something at the end of it - exercises are only a means to an end on the guitar, not the end itself.

OK cool, I'll try learn a bitchin' solo.
ESP Horizon FR II (EMG) / Ibanez Prestige RG1570 (DiMarzio Crunch Lab & LiquiFire pickups)
#7
Quote by llBlackenedll
OK cool, I'll try learn a bitchin' solo.



hh I saw your post on the 21 days thread, sent you a pm

this works for pretty much everything.. from learning a scale to full songs..
i am trying to find the perfect balance between super slow practice and speed,
trying to keep record of everything but it is pretty hard to actually measure how something exactly worked without having others to compare it...

what i am doing is practicing most of my routine slow for around 70% of the time and then speeding it up for the rest of the 30% (- again it varies on each drill and one should experiment with it)

for really awkward fingerings i go as slow as 20 bpm - 1 note.. haha but i notice in a couple of days it is way more solid than when i run excercises with only muscle power and speed.. from then on speeding up (which i really dont care that much about is a piece of cake)
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
#8
So I've been trying it today, and I get it in theory, however I have a major problem with it for learning songs:

It's harder to actually remember the notes when you go SUPER slow. It's so much easier to learn at least the notes for something by playing it at a sensibly slow speed rather than a ridiculously slow one.

I'm thinking this is best for something you already kinda know, so it would work really well for scales etc. But honestly, my problem is that I can't remember what the notes are rather than having any physical challenge. I know, I know, I only started today, but seriously by now I usually would have at least remembered all the notes :P

Don't get me wrong, I think it's going to be a great way to practice something you at least kinda know, but for something entirely new it just makes me want to shoot myself in the face.
ESP Horizon FR II (EMG) / Ibanez Prestige RG1570 (DiMarzio Crunch Lab & LiquiFire pickups)
Last edited by llBlackenedll at Nov 12, 2011,
#9
Quote by Slashiepie
So ive been trying this for a couple hours a day ( all my left hand excercises and some right hand ones)

IT IS FRIGGIN AMAZING.
i would love to have statistical data to make some claims, but sadly i just have my own experience which accounts for nothing in science.

Anyways science ignored im gonna actually claim that it reduces the time it takes you to learn something by around 100%

hell yeah! instead of spending 2 hours mastering a certain riff by ripping through it, you can get it down in 1 hour by playing like a granny.. (i keep track of the time i spend on each individual excercise and that seemed to be the pattern - varied a lot on different excercises)

Try it and muster the patience to do your technique excercises insanely slow for around an hour.. you wont regret it.
20 bpm.. 40 bpm max.



You made a cool research and both observation.

If you guys want to learn more about muscle memory take my free ebook and read chapter 2 which is dedicated to the muscle memory aspect.

http://www.guitarlearningtips.org/the-guitar-blueprint-to-success/

PS: Chapter 1 shows you what is the right mindset for learning and mastering guitar playing .
#10
Quote by llBlackenedll
So I've been trying it today, and I get it in theory, however I have a major problem with it for learning songs:

It's harder to actually remember the notes when you go SUPER slow. It's so much easier to learn at least the notes for something by playing it at a sensibly slow speed rather than a ridiculously slow one.

I'm thinking this is best for something you already kinda know, so it would work really well for scales etc. But honestly, my problem is that I can't remember what the notes are rather than having any physical challenge. I know, I know, I only started today, but seriously by now I usually would have at least remembered all the notes :P

Don't get me wrong, I think it's going to be a great way to practice something you at least kinda know, but for something entirely new it just makes me want to shoot myself in the face.

It's called the 21 day challenge, not the 1 day challenge
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#11
Quote by steven seagull
It's called the 21 day challenge, not the 1 day challenge

Heh, I know which is why I'm going to keep it up.

Even after the first day I'm seeing good results in terms of the actual playing I'm just finding it much harder than usual to learn WHAT to play. But in terms of technique, as most people say, you see benefit really quickly.
ESP Horizon FR II (EMG) / Ibanez Prestige RG1570 (DiMarzio Crunch Lab & LiquiFire pickups)
#12
That's part of the idea, to get you into a more methodical, disciplined mindset - you're actually having to learn stuff properly rather perhaps fudging through bits or half-assing them.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#13
Quote by steven seagull
That's part of the idea, to get you into a more methodical, disciplined mindset - you're actually having to learn stuff properly rather perhaps fudging through bits or half-assing them.

That makes sense, I do tend to sometimes ignore mistakes for the sake of a few BPM sometimes. It has become increasingly less of an issue over the past few months as I've been focusing more on ironing that out, so I figure this 21 day challenge could help. Though I can't actually do it for 21 days straight for various reasons, it'll be more like the 21 in 25 day challenge unfortunately.

I guess what I meant was, sometimes with very fast parts, it is difficult to understand how something would sound at speed when you've always played it at a very low speed. For example, the sweeping/tapping part of the under a glass moon solo, if trying to learn the notes at a very very slow speed, sounds very odd and it doesn't start to come together in your head until you've at least heard it a few times at a moderate tempo. Once you've got the general flow down, it's easy to slow it down and play it at low speeds.

Of course this may, and likely will change after 21 days. Either way, thanks for explaining - the disciplined mindset part makes a lot of sense and I see now that it's likely my frustration came from adapting to that mindset.
ESP Horizon FR II (EMG) / Ibanez Prestige RG1570 (DiMarzio Crunch Lab & LiquiFire pickups)
#14
Quote by llBlackenedll


hhh glad it is giving you results
amazing stuff isnt it?

You know where i also noticed a difference?

I have a couple really fast songs where i seem to just randomly forget some bits even though ive played them hundreds of times with no "mistakes".

However once i did them insanely slow i notice i didnt know them note by note by heart,
you described it well "not knowhing What to play" i think i just had them glued in chunks..

:P when you do them insanely slow those gaps dont seem to show up.

really interesting stuff, makes you pay attention to so many little details..
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
Last edited by Slashiepie at Nov 12, 2011,
#15
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFff. its been 2-3 nights ive attempted and sorta failed playin somthn cleanly. this morning i did it 50% speed.. then ta-daa i did it. DX. ahhh.