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#1
Wel, I got a new guitar (ESP LTD H-1001FM w/SD's for $500!) and so I'm letting my friend have my old SG, and my Vypyr Amp.

I would like to have a cheap amp to run my digitech RP through, thats loud enough to play with a drummer. My Microcube doesn't work for that. So at least 10 - 15W with minimum 8" Speaker. Budget is as low as possible, definitely under $100.

Right now I was looking at an Orange Crush 15W for $89 used at my GC, but I wanted to know if I could go even cheaper or same price with bigger speaker?

Anyone have any suggestions? The amp just needs to be able to make a nice clean sound to run through.
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#2
you need ATLEAST 75w in a solid state amp to keep up with a drummer. you will destroy a 15w solid state amp at those volumes. ur gonna need to put down about $300 for an amp to keep up with that kind of volume.

this would be an ideal amp for you http://www.guitarcenter.com/VHT-Special-6-Ultra-6W-1x12-Hand-Wired-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-H73575-i1884886.gc

rule of thumb (volume wise) 1 tube watt is roughly the equivalent of 15 SS watts.

the more wattage you have on a tube amp the more headroom (the cleaner the amp will stay at higher volumes) tube amp is going to give you a great platform for using something like the multi fx and allow you to drop some nicer pedals onto it when you come to realize that a multi fx is not the greatest sounding thing in the world and that you really don't need all of the different things on it.

so check out the VHT, also check out some of the jet city stuff. pretty inexpensive but your going to be right in the $300 range. anything lower than that simply won't do what your wanting it to do
#3
I agree with most of that ^

I'm confused by your 1 tube watt = comment though.

Diesel - gregs1020 gave you some good advice in your other thread. A keyboard amp would work. What I recommended would also work. A Fender Frontman 212 is a great clean platform for MFX and should be pretty cheap used. I know some will disagree with me but a low watt amp is not what you should be looking for.

Also - wasn't your budget $300 in your other thread?
#4
that was before I bought this guitar. I can't afford to spend $300 on an amp. and btw, I've been doing fine using my vypyr in my basement along with drums at about half volume. I for sure won't need 75w and don't want a tube amp because I want it to be clean, and without breakup

I stick to my budget
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#5
Quote by Diesel Weasel
I can't afford to spend $300 on an amp.


so find a set of powered speakers or a keyboard amp to run the unit through on black friday.

we've been through this.


you are turning into VintageAmigo/BCRich5000.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#6
sorry, i hate to bug you guys, but for some reason, at first, i was under the impression that i couldn't get a keyboard amp for this cheap.

this be worth it?
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-Ultratone-KT108-15w-Keyboard-Amplifier-103643284-i1173577.gc

EDIT: Found this on Craigslist:
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/msg/2605638914.html

Could i try to talk the price down on that and go with that?
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
Last edited by Diesel Weasel at Nov 13, 2011,
#7
sorry, i hate to sound like a broken record, but for some reason, i was under the impression that you can't really get a decent keyboard amp for this cheap.

wait, no you can't. that's worse than your vypyr.

stop making the same thread over and over. the answer isn't going to change.

if you need money, sell the vypyr and whatever else you can and increase your budget.

$100 amps cost $100 for a reason.

you want a Roland KC amp or a powered speaker set up.

otherwise you are pissing in the wind.

now stop making the same thread over and over, or go to another forum to do it. see how long that lasts.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#9
I think you will be happier longer if you bump up the keyboard amp a size or two, like to 10" or 12" speaker.
Mr. Zachary Vex on the fuzz probe: "Congratulations. You must be insane. Even I don't get how to use this pedal".
#10
Quote by Diesel Weasel
I for sure won't need 75w and don't want a tube amp because I want it to be clean, and without breakup



This makes no sense. I seriously don't even know where you get the idea that a tube amp can't be clean.

There was a thread not that long ago where a guy was playing his 15 or 30W spider, vypyr, whatever, on max volume and basically melted the thing. With a SS amp you really want to go as high wattage as possible to play with a band. When a SS amp starts to clip it sounds like shit.
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
#11
Im not going to have my Vypyr anymore. Im letting my friend have it... so should i just tell him he cant have it?

Seriously though, i dont need the amp to be a huge step up. just a replacement. so if I were to grab a used $70ish PA Speaker that'd work? And yeah I guess Ill look into larger watts, but PA speaker are generally loud enough.

this isnt the same thread. i dont think you understand that i dont need a huge step up, just a simple temporary amp that i will only use for a little while before I can afford a nicer amp.

EDIT: and about the tube amp thing, let me clarify. If i was to get a tube amp in my budget, itd be fairly low wattage, leaving low amounts of headroom, making it break up/distort by time id need to crank it to play with drums.
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
Last edited by Diesel Weasel at Nov 13, 2011,
#12
used powered speakers.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#13
If the PA speaker is powered, then yes, it would work.

I still don't get the logic behind not getting a tube amp. Most SS amps in a $100 budget won't be very high wattage either... and as I said in my earlier post, SS amps sound awful when they start to clip. If I had to choose between a 15w tube amp (like a tweaker, or AC15) and a 15W vypyr or something to use as a pedal platform, I'd definitely go for the tube amp.

That being said, if you just want a totally neutral way to give your MFX pedal volume, then a powered PA speaker, or keyboard amp would probably work well. My first year or so of guitar playing was done with an ancient zoom multi FX pedal going into my stereo. That wouldn't work for band volumes, but it's basically a neutral power amp that won't alter the tone of the MFX unit.
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
#14
Quote by Diesel Weasel
Im not going to have my Vypyr anymore. Im letting my friend have it... so should i just tell him he cant have it?

Yes, if you can't afford to save for a tube amp you'll need the money to go towards a tube amp.
The digitech needs to go as well for jammin and really cutting through the mix you need a tube amp.
An amp like say a jet city 20 watter will have more clean room then anything you're going on about and if it does break up at least it will sound pleasant. Solid states sound horrible when they break up..
And your drummer must be a right pussy if a 15 watt vypyr can keep up..
Last edited by coolstoryangus at Nov 14, 2011,
#15
I used to keep up with a drummer with a SS 10watt.
But he had an electronic drum set (They actually sounded decent).


P.S. Bite me Cath.

Edit:
It was also in a 10ft. x 10ft. room.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Nov 14, 2011,
#16
Electronic drums? You can just turn those down, right?

When I was at practice with my old band we were in the finished half of my basement... probably 8X15 room. I was standing about 2 feet from the crash cymbal. I had to crank my mark IV a fair amount to be able to hear myself. It all depends on how hard your drummer plays, and the size of the room. A full drum kit, 2 guitars, bass, and PA pushing vocals gets loud really fast. Plus the volume at the end of practice was usually at least 50% higher than it was at the start due to everyone constantly tweaking as we played.

How many watts do you need? No idea. I know how loud it gets with a band, and if you have to turn a 100W head halfway up to be heard, a 10W SS probably isn't gonna cut it without clipping. You can always try it, but you buy some low watt POS amp and it doesn't work out, then you just burned $100 on a junk amp that you probably won't be able to resell for what you paid. Though most powered PA speakers have at least 50W SS amps built in, so as long as you get a decent on you should be ok.

(I still think a 15-30W tube amp with a MFX pedal strictly for effects would sound a lot better, but it's your rig and money)
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
#17
Quote by CodeMonk
I used to keep up with a drummer with a SS 10watt.
But he had an electronic drum set (They actually sounded decent).


P.S. Bite me Cath.

Edit:
It was also in a 10ft. x 10ft. room.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!


(But open a window, I don't want to inhale any hazardous fumes from witch-burning in such a small room.)
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#18
Quote by gregs1020
sorry, i hate to sound like a broken record, but for some reason, i was under the impression that you can't really get a decent keyboard amp for this cheap.

wait, no you can't. that's worse than your vypyr.

stop making the same thread over and over. the answer isn't going to change.

if you need money, sell the vypyr and whatever else you can and increase your budget.

$100 amps cost $100 for a reason.

you want a Roland KC amp or a powered speaker set up.

otherwise you are pissing in the wind.

now stop making the same thread over and over, or go to another forum to do it. see how long that lasts.



+infinity.
Thats what Im doing incidentally.
#19
Quote by jpatan
(I still think a 15-30W tube amp with a MFX pedal strictly for effects would sound a lot better, but it's your rig and money)

Well of course, I do too. By far. I'm just saying, that right now I need something cheap to use my digitech through. A nice tube amp is too expensive for me right now.

We dont get too loud while playing, and not in a full band situation either. I'll be ditching my digitech for indivigual pedal eventually, dont worry, i just need to keep saving.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/American-Audio-XSP8P-Powered-Speaker-105623839-i1460694.gc

this used?
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#20
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/peavey-kb-1-20w-1x8-2-channel-keyboard-amp/703373000000000


And there is nothing wrong with your pedal. The newer RP series has some of the best amp modelling short of higher end units like the Eleven rack, in some cases even on par with the Pod HD series, especially in terms of responsiveness to pick attack.

If you cant get a good tone out of it, youre either tweaking it badly or youre running it through shit headphones/amps.

PM Fly135, he once did a comparo between his Crate V32, his RP1000 (same modelling algorhythms as the 355m just more models and effects) and a Halfer tube preamp (based on a Plexi), and it was damn close. You could make out which was tube and which was not, granted, but it was bloody close. That said, it took him nearly a week of tweaking, and he had to use settings that would sound like shit on a real amp, so you really need to experiment to get it to sound good.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Nov 14, 2011,
#21
Meh, you got two cheap amps and a multiFX now..

I would sell all three and get a good tube combo. Meybe a Vypyr Tube 60

But, that's just me.
Squier Strat
Behringer Fuzz
GFT-90
#22
Quote by GS LEAD 5
PM Fly135, he once did a comparo between his Crate V32, his RP1000 (same modelling algorhythms as the 355m just more models and effects) and a Halfer tube preamp (based on a Plexi), and it was damn close. You could make out which was tube and which was not, granted, but it was bloody close. That said, it took him nearly a week of tweaking, and he had to use settings that would sound like shit on a real amp, so you really need to experiment to get it to sound good.
In my demo comparison I am using the amp (a Vintage Club 50 3x10) with a 4CM hookup. The comparison demonstrates the RP1000 amp model against the VC50 preamp tones. In both cases the VC50 power amp and cabinet is being miced.

The reason it took me so long to tweak was simply because I overlooked the profound effect on the tone caused by cab models, and didn't mess with the cabs at first. The cab model will color the tone so significantly that you can't get a match. Once I figured that out it was easy to tweak. I actually preferred the "Digitech Speaker Comp" cab model over Direct (no cab) even though it was playing through the VC50 cabinet. The difference was small but the direct was slightly too bright, even though I probably could have eq'd that out.

Personally if I was too broke to buy a tube amp to go with my RP, I'd go get an older quality stereo system with nice speakers off CL, and use that as a PA until I could afford what I wanted. It's always nice to have a decent stereo for backing tracks and checking your recorded tone. And the stuff is dirt cheap.
#23
thanks for some help guys. and yeah right now I use the Fender Twin Deluxe amp model with Rodent Distortion. Mids at -3, with treble at 6ish and bass at 5. Not super happy with it, but better than the JCM models. theyre really thin and fizzy imo. I think I need to experiment more with the Distortions.

Anyways yeah I dont want to sell my RP, because I have no other pedals. and I'm beginning to hate modelling stuff, even if it sounds good. The vypyr will be getting replaced, but my microcube is a fun little amp for taking around.

Theres a KB15 Keyboard amp on Craigslist, is that anything like that KB 1 20W? They both have 8" speakers. only dif i see is 5W... KB15 is for 50 bucks
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#24
Quote by Diesel Weasel
thanks for some help guys. and yeah right now I use the Fender Twin Deluxe amp model with Rodent Distortion. Mids at -3, with treble at 6ish and bass at 5. Not super happy with it, but better than the JCM models. theyre really thin and fizzy imo. I think I need to experiment more with the Distortions.

Anyways yeah I dont want to sell my RP, because I have no other pedals. and I'm beginning to hate modelling stuff, even if it sounds good. The vypyr will be getting replaced, but my microcube is a fun little amp for taking around.

Theres a KB15 Keyboard amp on Craigslist, is that anything like that KB 1 20W? They both have 8" speakers. only dif i see is 5W... KB15 is for 50 bucks


The RP falls under the category of "modelling stuff", yes?

Having pedals is cool and all, but I'd rather have something that sounds good.
Squier Strat
Behringer Fuzz
GFT-90
#25
yeah it does, but its all i can afford right now . I wont sell the RP till I can afford a decent OD, Dist, Reverb, and Delay/looper pedal, because i need to use it on stage...

i agree, but for now, it works and gives me something rather than nothing.
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#26
I second the Roland KC amp then.

Good amp for anything really. Nothing special, but it should work for your pedal.
Squier Strat
Behringer Fuzz
GFT-90
#27
Quote by Diesel Weasel
KB15 is for 50 bucks

test it, make sure it's not broke, buy it and run away laughing.

/thread
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#28
Harbinger PA have nice sounding speakers for low price

I wonder if since some say the digital modeller has a thin mid, a speaker such as a Tonkerlite with a slight mid boost would help this at all?
Mr. Zachary Vex on the fuzz probe: "Congratulations. You must be insane. Even I don't get how to use this pedal".
#29
Read the entire thing and the best option would tell your friend you're not giving him the vypyr. Save a bit, buy a decent tube amp and then give it to him.
Quote by FEngHLyan

She will join the prom.

She insists to wear this lights.

I don't think so.

How can I persuade her?
#30
Quote by Diesel Weasel
thanks for some help guys. and yeah right now I use the Fender Twin Deluxe amp model with Rodent Distortion. Mids at -3, with treble at 6ish and bass at 5. Not super happy with it, but better than the JCM models. theyre really thin and fizzy imo. I think I need to experiment more with the Distortions.

Anyways yeah I dont want to sell my RP, because I have no other pedals. and I'm beginning to hate modelling stuff, even if it sounds good. The vypyr will be getting replaced, but my microcube is a fun little amp for taking around.

Theres a KB15 Keyboard amp on Craigslist, is that anything like that KB 1 20W? They both have 8" speakers. only dif i see is 5W... KB15 is for 50 bucks


Ugh. Scooped mids?
Thats probably your problem.
Boost those mids, use the semi parametric EQ to your advantage,

Try Bass- 5, Mids 8 at about 500 Hz, Treble 7.5.

EDIT: Mids at MINUS three, with bass and treble at 6?

Dude. Youve got practically no mids whatsoever.
No wonder youre not happy with the sound

See my soundcloud, all the clips are with an RP, though most of its metal.

http://soundcloud.com/arghyadeepmitra/01-110720-2113


This ones with a Deluxe Reverb, B/M/T 5 /8/9, gain at 7/10, with I think a Recto 412 cab model, dont really remember.

Ignore sloppy playing.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Nov 15, 2011,
#31
Wow adding mids helped a lot. I also figured out how HUGE of an impact that the cab models are. are real cabs anything like that? And I think I'll consider that Peavey KB15. But I'll talk to my friend too.
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#32
You dont need a new pedal. You need to learn how to EQ. Seriously.
Mids on -3......I mean, even the kids with Spiders dont eq that extreme......

Yes real cabs are like that. But the cab models on the RP....umm.....dont sound like a real one at all they only about get in the ball park.

Try the Faney 412 model, and the Recto 412. The Faney one has a massive bass and treble rolloff, has a nice "mellowed out" tone when paired with the Dual Recto or 5150 models.

The Recto 412 is the most balanced sounding cab IMO, isnt very obviously scooped or middy like the other cabs. I personally hate the greenback 412 for anything except clean cleans. Sounds horribly boxy and middy. I pretty much use the Recto one for nearly everything, with the Faney one every once in a while.

Try this. Set the mids to about +5, bass and treble both at zero.

Now change the mid frequency knob from 300Hz, and move up to 4000Hz, slowly, while strumming your guitar. See what a massive difference that one knob makes.


The RP isnt a bad pedal, but it needs a lot of work to sound good.

EDIT: Do this. Select a Plexi model, Recto cab. Set the gain to the point where you get a mild breakup. Gain on about 6 or 7 on 10 should do. BMT 5/7/7. Or thereabouts.
Add a Rat. Set gain to about 5-6, filter to about 6/10, and level to 10/10.

Nice tight power metal tone.


Also, use less gain. Too much gain muddies up the sound.

Do this. Dual Recto, 412 recto cab, gain 5/10, maybe 6, no boost, BMT 4/8/7.

Cleans up nicely if you switch to your neck pickup, or roll off your volume knob.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Nov 16, 2011,
#33
Comment from previous amp search.

Tube amps can lack treble at lower volumes, that is why some people use a treble booster.

I believe a hrd3 has treble boost at low volumes to compensate for this.

Some people use the lower input guitar input to crank the amp louder
put a pedal in front with lowered volume
put a pedal in the loop with lowered volume
make sure the mids are increased

or all of the above
Mr. Zachary Vex on the fuzz probe: "Congratulations. You must be insane. Even I don't get how to use this pedal".
#34
Found a Peavey Bandit 112 on craigslist that I could get for around $70? It's the older one with the red lining on the top and bottom, but looks nice and its 80W. I kinda want a keyboard amp, but at this price and wattage with a 12" speaker, and being louder, this looks promising. I've heard mixed things about the Bandit, so any opinions? I might not be able to get as clear a tone (as a keyboard amp) from it with my digitech, but i can test it before i buy to see if I like it.


BTW right now on my Digitech Im using this setting:
Screamer Dist - 99 Gain, 99 Volume, 90 Tone
Fender Twin Deluxe with CLS 412 cab. 90 Gain and 75 volume
EQ: B/M/T: 4/6/10 MidRange:500Hz Presence:2

I love a really bright tone like this. Like Green Day types of stuff, except a tiny bit less mids and more gain. I love the Twin amp because it has more... overall bigness than the other amps, and this is my favorite setting for moderate gain. it also isnt very fizzy, which i find in a lot of the models as well.

Thats just what im liking right now
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
Last edited by Diesel Weasel at Nov 16, 2011,
#37
Quote by Diesel Weasel
Found a Peavey Bandit 112 on craigslist that I could get for around $70? It's the older one with the red lining on the top and bottom, but looks nice and its 80W. I kinda want a keyboard amp, but at this price and wattage with a 12" speaker, and being louder, this looks promising. I've heard mixed things about the Bandit, so any opinions? I might not be able to get as clear a tone (as a keyboard amp) from it with my digitech, but i can test it before i buy to see if I like it.


BTW right now on my Digitech Im using this setting:
Screamer Dist - 99 Gain, 99 Volume, 90 Tone
Fender Twin Deluxe with CLS 412 cab. 90 Gain and 75 volume
EQ: B/M/T: 4/6/10 MidRange:500Hz Presence:2

I love a really bright tone like this. Like Green Day types of stuff, except a tiny bit less mids and more gain. I love the Twin amp because it has more... overall bigness than the other amps, and this is my favorite setting for moderate gain. it also isnt very fizzy, which i find in a lot of the models as well.

Thats just what im liking right now



Your pedal will sound like shit through an amp that has no FX loop.
And too much gain on the pedal

You want greenday? Use the Plexi/JTM models. As for fizz, you want a little bit to cut through a mix.

Does the 355 have an SLO model? Granted it sounds nothing like a real one (like duh) but its pretty darn cool for mid to high gain. Its also one of the most responsive to pick attack on the RP.
#38
The twin isnt a gain amp, so cranking it isnt much :P And yeah the mass amount of tone and a bit of presence gives it some fizz, just not a tinny feeling fiz. Try it out and let me know how you like it.

And Im using my pedal thru an amp w/o FX loop right now so it shouldn't matter to me, plus for some of that is on the pedal, wouldn't I want it in front?
~~~...:::My Gear:::...~~~
~.:.ESP LTD H-1001FM.:.~
~.:.Peavey Vypyr 15W.:.~
~.:.DigiTech RP355.:.~
~.:.Roland MicroCube.:.~
#40
I say KV15 :shurg: less volume, but it would sound better IMO.


Quote by Diesel Weasel
The twin isnt a gain amp, so cranking it isnt much :P And yeah the mass amount of tone and a bit of presence gives it some fizz, just not a tinny feeling fiz. Try it out and let me know how you like it.

And Im using my pedal thru an amp w/o FX loop right now so it shouldn't matter to me, plus for some of that is on the pedal, wouldn't I want it in front?



Not really my genre, so chances are it wont appeal to me but will give it a try.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Nov 16, 2011,
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