#1
Sorry if this is the wrong thread...it's kinda about music theory, so I think I'm right.

I like heavy metal music. I also like classical music.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who notices that they seem to compliment each other very well. Does the synergy have to do with musical theory? Is it because of the similar dynamics of the genres? What is it?

Please and thank you.
#2
In my opinion, its because they are written the same way.
there is ussually no improvisation in classical or heavy metal, every part is written out before hand.

if you listen to bands like scale the summit, and just imagine cellos and violins instead of distorted guitars, its basically classical.

im more into genres that incorporate a lot more improv though, like jazz and fusion and stuff. (if you like metal, AND improvisation, check out exivious. its the only band ive heard so far that sound jazzy, and metal. they pull it off pretty good too
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#3
Maybe the theory, maybe the melody, maybe the "Im going to do it my way (without being punk rock)" attitude. Or maybe, its a mystery and one that we will never solve. Kinda like the missing link between ambrosia and cheesecake.
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Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#4
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
In my opinion, its because they are written the same way.
there is ussually no improvisation in classical or heavy metal, every part is written out before hand.

if you listen to bands like scale the summit, and just imagine cellos and violins instead of distorted guitars, its basically classical.

im more into genres that incorporate a lot more improv though, like jazz and fusion and stuff. (if you like metal, AND improvisation, check out exivious. its the only band ive heard so far that sound jazzy, and metal. they pull it off pretty good too

That's not true at all.
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#5
Maybe because there's a whole heap of metal guys playing like Malmsteen.
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#7
Quote by supersac
i once heard that the only difference between heavy metal and classical mucis is distorted guitars and lyrics about killing goats


PEOPLE KILL GOATS??? THE HELL?
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#8
Quote by supersac
i once heard that the only difference between heavy metal and classical mucis is distorted guitars and lyrics about killing goats


Metal loves the blues and pentatonic stuff too.
I love both genres, they are a lot more stimulating on the musical mind.
This goes with Jazz too.
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#9
there is actually a sub genre of metal called neo-classical (but you probably know that already), that includes artists like yngwie malmsteen and bands like Symphony X (who are heavily malmsteen influenced). Symphony X have been known to blend classical orchestral music into their songs, Michael Pinnella does most of the work on his keyboard (strings, choir, harpsichord etc.) while Romeo plays classical style leads over the top. For example, songs like Smoke and Mirrors, The Damnation game (which actually cites Bach's "Solfegietto") and Out of the Ashes. Also, Pergamum (pretty sure thats how you spell it) has an awesome metal cover of some classical songs on youtube (I think beethoven's moonlight sonata might be in there somewhere) that really shows the simularty.

Metal music should (imo) always be treated as a composition rather than a collection of riffs. Just one of the many reasons metal is superior to most other forms of music. I you ask me, metal is just modern classical music.
Last edited by dream_theater24 at Nov 14, 2011,
#10
Short answer is this: metal in general? No. Certain genres of metal? Yes.

Most of what people define as metal, be it older thrash such as Metallica/Megadeth/Slayer/Anthrax etc., or newer stuff that people like, ranging from Killswitch to Dillinger Escape Plan, BFMV, TDWP and so forth, don't really bear any resemblance to classical music. I had to stretch for a couple there, as I'm not familiar with a lot of newer metal; to me, BFMV and TDWP are essentially the Backstreet Boys of the metal genre.

Anyway, as mentioned above, there's a lot that falls under the realm of neoclassical metal: Symphony X would have been the example I used as well. To throw out another song of theirs, Candlelight Fantasia would be a good example of that style; they use a bunch of minor and diminished licks that give it a more classical feel. There's some more straightforward stuff as well, and Romeo in particular likes to use a bit of whole tone (really cool whole tone lick in the Eyes of Medusa solo), but in general there's a definite classical vibe to their stuff. Symphony X to me is a neat blend of progressive and neoclassical metal; I'd certainly call them a progressive metal band, but there's obviously a difference between their sound and that of Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and so forth.

A lot of the neoclassical stuff generally is found in the guitar realm, though. Guys like Yngwie, Jason Becker, Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore (to a slightly lesser extent), and Uli Jon Roth are some of the better-known examples of the style. Most of the similarities come from the fact that there was a huge wave of classically influenced players during the 80's (Roth kind of kicked things off earlier than that and paved the way) and that's where the genre built from. It's never been particularly mainstream, but the influences are there because that's where these guys drew their musical vocabulary from.

You'll also see some neoclassical lead approaches in other genres of metal, such as Necrophagist, but in general it's a pretty self-contained area of music.
Last edited by :-D at Nov 14, 2011,
#11
Quote by :-D
to me, BFMV and TDWP are essentially the Backstreet Boys of the metal genre.


Agreed. But still enjoy BFMV... mostly The Poison though...
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#12
Metal and Classical music have nothing in common, unless you count stealing some Vivaldi melodies.
#13
^That. Classical music is all about form and thematic development. Metal doesn't really use either in any way that resembles classical music, so it can't really be all that similar to classical music.

As for why metalheads like Chopin... I dunno, just works out I guess.
#14
Quote by griffRG7321
Metal and Classical music have nothing in common, unless you count stealing some Vivaldi melodies.


This. Most of the time metalheads want to liken metal to classical because they want to validate their own music.

I really only know of one band that I can honestly say that has been influenced by classical music, an influence that doesn't reflect in the use of cheesy (synth) strings, the stealing of classical melodies and/or the terrible use of diminished/harmonic minor scales/arps.
Last edited by Keth at Nov 14, 2011,
#15
Quote by griffRG7321
Metal and Classical music have nothing in common, unless you count stealing some Vivaldi melodies.

You just don't know what you're talking about. You just a bald old man... pffft. Only Vivaldi melodies I heard was with At Vance... then again, the names of the pieces did have something to with seasons and stuff. The bastards made me buy four albums to get the complete piece...

, I don't quite hear it with necrophagist. Yucky band though. Blackmore would have been a huge inspiration for the neo classical bastards... you can't leave him out the picture
Last edited by evolucian at Nov 14, 2011,
#16
it's because Trey Azagtoth was all "yea man Mozart 'n shit man yea dude bro totally this album is like dedicated to him 'n shit" So I guess it's cool to like it so that your music tastes seem sophisticated.
#17
^ Did Trey really say that? Bummer if he did... the albums are usually dedicated to the old ones. And his idol is Van Halen. So if he really did that, then luckily Domination (frikkin awesome album) was the last I bought from them.
#18
I am exaggerating but yea, mostly referring to Blessed. But in any interview where people ask about his music tastes it's the first thing he says. Notice where my quotes ended. I highly doubt he said anything about sophistication. Though he does imply it.
#20
Quote by griffRG7321
Metal and Classical music have nothing in common, unless you count stealing some Vivaldi melodies.


basically what i came here to say. i'm on my way out now so maybe i'll post something longer later on.
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#21
Quote by ProtoCosmos
Sorry if this is the wrong thread...it's kinda about music theory, so I think I'm right.

I like heavy metal music. I also like classical music.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who notices that they seem to compliment each other very well. Does the synergy have to do with musical theory? Is it because of the similar dynamics of the genres? What is it?

Please and thank you.




Classical music is tied to pretty much any popular style of music today, so I wouldn't make too much of it.

If you like them both, then listen to, play, and enjoy them. Listen to other styles to, and you'll begin to recognize the connections there as well.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 14, 2011,
#22
Some of the chord progressions in certain metal music are similar to something you might find in a bach chorale or something. Beyond that, theres not too much connection
#23
There are some very trivial and trite similarities in the aesthetics, but nothing beyond that.
#24
Quote by ProtoCosmos
Sorry if this is the wrong thread...it's kinda about music theory, so I think I'm right.

I like heavy metal music. I also like classical music.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who notices that they seem to compliment each other very well. Does the synergy have to do with musical theory? Is it because of the similar dynamics of the genres? What is it?

Please and thank you.


Good observation, i.e. one I agree with . Something to do with replication of the sheer power of an orchestra at full tilt - you don't really get this in other genres except metal.

Very often I listen to classical music and think "this would work as a metal song" or I get inspiration for a riff. And I don't mean Baroque-style shredding... more like power metal or thrash with musical structure and subtleties of riff ornamentation, and with that sense of epic scale.
#25
Quote by Jehannum
more like power metal or thrash with musical structure and subtleties of riff ornamentation, and with that sense of epic scale.

I have yet to hear any power or thrash songs that even scratch the surface of classical's structural complexity. Other than fills, 99% of metal is just 4- or 8-bar riffs, with little development beyond adding new riffs.
#26
I think it's fair to say that there is no inherent connection between the two and that most metal players aren't authentically steeped in classical, yet there is an obvious affinity to the extent that various metal players have explicitly tried to incorporate ideas from classical music.

Statements like "they have nothing in common" may being going a bit far, but I would say that even many neo-classical metal players are not particularly drawing from classical music beyond an imitation that can be reduced to some generalities like "use lots of harmonic minor runs and diminished arpeggios" - which at best *reminds* people of classical but doesn't really have much to do with the mechanics of classical itself.
#27
Classical music and metal don't fit together.

It's just that by raising the seventh back to a natural seventh in the minor scale you create the strongest resolution possible in a minor key.

It most likely works so well in metal because through all the dissonance, an actual consonant sounding element is much stronger...Jazz anyone?

This is also the reason why quite some minor pop ballad/songs are so pleasing sound.

Yes pop music and metal music share a same concept.

Actually..The diminished concept is also shared with some pop songs.

Who says by John Mayer employs a diminished chord. I believe it's a Bb Diminished 7th chord.

So you see music shares a lot together criss cross any genre, but..Classical has so many concepts that metal hasn't, that metal and pop music are actually more a like than metal and classical music.

Hell even some pop songs are harmonically more related to classical or jazz than any metal song I've heard (except for some prog metal)

Btw I love metal, but I also love Classical, and if any genre bares similar concepts to classical it's jazz.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 15, 2011,