#1
Howdy everyone - recently I tried tuning my Epiphone Les Paul Studio down to C Standard/Drob B, and it sounded kind of muddy. I'm using .12-54 Daddario strings. I have a Dimarzio D-sonic pickup in the bridge, and run it through a TS-9 into my 6505+ combo. My normal tuning is D-standard and it sounds great. I can even do drop C without it getting muddy, but C-standard/drop B seems to get into muddy territories. I can't really see using those tunings again, unless I can get it to sound a little more clear and crisp.

Does that just come with the territory or would a longer scale guitar sound better for those tunings? (I know a little bit about the dynamics of scale length in terms of tone characteristics.)
#2
Well, your thinking on the right track. With my experience, low tunings normally sound a but muddier but there are a couple of things you can do to help.

First off, longer scale guitars do seem to perform better for drop tunings - but thats not a deal breaker. First you want to try higher gauge strings, since they are thicker they will tighten with less tension, and since less tension is being used when you drop tune you get some compensation.

Getting thicker strings will probably help you the most, but you may want to raise the action on your bridge a little as well. Rolling the volume knob back on your pickups about a quarter turn always helps me clean up the tone a little bit also.

Other than that - if your planing on going back and forth between tunings on your guitar your more than likely going to get discouraged. Its rather frustrating moving back and forth all the time, your much better to have a separate guitar set up for drop tunings.
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#3
what he said^ but i would also recommend changing your EQ up a bit. You have a nice set up, so that shouldn't be the problem. Try rolling of the bass and gain a bit and boosting your mids and highs a little. Should clear up some of the muddiness.
#4
That's really not that low, you shouldn't be experiencing problems with mudiness till you go quite a bit lower. It's definately an EQ issue.
#5
Try D’Addario .013 and .014 or baritone strings. And then start saving up for a Baritone that you can just leave tuned to B and capo up to C.
#7
As others have suggested, EQ will help a lot. Obviously if there's too much bass... turn the bass down.

You can always use thicker strings. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of anything below C at 25.5". I used a .066 for Ab at 25.5", and although it played well, and it was awesome... I just didn't like the sound of it. I like thin strings and the tone just wasn't right for me.
Ibanez RG2228 w/ EMG808Xs | Line 6 POD HD500 | Mackie HD1221
#8
You'll probably have to adjust your intonation some as well, but very low tunings are certainly doable on non-baritone six strings. I had my 25.5" schecter in drop G# for a while with d'addario 13-62 strings and it sounded great, just make sure your intonation, action, and EQ are where they need to be.

And I can't stress enough how true this is:

Quote by Vypor
Other than that - if your planing on going back and forth between tunings on your guitar your more than likely going to get discouraged. Its rather frustrating moving back and forth all the time, your much better to have a separate guitar set up for drop tunings.
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#9
i have an SG in C#/Drop B with EMG's and it gets really muddy, perfect for doom. so i like the mud on that guitar. my preference however would be to have a baritone for lower tunings, and i will probably pick one up.

completely unrelated, quite a while back when i was into metal (2003-2008ish) none of the current metal bands (shadows fall/LOG/COB/All that remains/trivium, etc.)were down tuning a whole lot, maybe D std/Drop C, and maybe C std/drop A# at the most. stop playing metal get into blues and come back on the metal scene and everybody is downtuning like its a competition on who can tune their 8 string lower.
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#10
Thanks for all the responses guys! It could be just that my EQing needed to be changed. Or that my strings are wearing out. Or that I'm forced to play at low volumes because I have a neighbor who never leaves her condo. (My amp really does sound a lot different when you turn it up to "anti-social" levels - meaning it sounds a lot BETTER.)

Really I was just interested in seeing if it was even worth pursuing with this guitar. Ultimately, I'll try to get another guitar that's dedicated to low tuning. However, I'm not into this 'drop-F' or lower tuning. To me, drob-B is as low as I'd ever need to go...I'd like it to still sound like a guitar.

So I'm not really sure I need a baritone, but maybe a 7-string? I looked at an 8 string at the local store and just laughed - the thing was ridiculous. Any recommendations?
Last edited by KailM at Nov 15, 2011,
#11
Quote by KailM
Thanks for all the responses guys! It could be just that my EQing needed to be changed. Or that my strings are wearing out. Or that I'm forced to play at low volumes because I have a neighbor who never leaves her condo. (My amp really does sound a lot different when you turn it up to "anti-social" levels - meaning it sounds a lot BETTER.)

Really I was just interested in seeing if it was even worth pursuing with this guitar. Ultimately, I'll try to get another guitar that's dedicated to low tuning. However, I'm not into this 'drop-F' or lower tuning. To me, drob-B is as low as I'd ever need to go...I'd like it to still sound like a guitar.

So I'm not really sure I need a baritone, but maybe a 7-string? I looked at an 8 string at the local store and just laughed - the thing was ridiculous. Any recommendations?


play a 7 string before you get one for a while. dont order one blindly without ever trying one..lol some people like them, but i never really liked how the neck felt being wider and never played it. granted this does seem like common sense, i was 13 when i ordered the 7 string though, at least i made $50 on it because i got a good deal. lol.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
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2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#12
I play in drop B on my SG with a 11-48 set. Works fine for me. You should play with your EQ before getting new strings.

7-strings are awesome imo, the first time I picked up mine at GC I knew it was right for me. They definitely aren't for everyone, but if it's for you then you'll know right away.

Derek: people have been downtuning for a long time, it's just that it's getting really popular now with all this djent bs. Thergothon was playing in A standard (I think, maybe drop A though) in '92, and since then a ton of doom bands have been playing in B or lower.
#13
i play my guitar in c standard and drop a# all the time as my main tunings and it never gets muddy, its the same scale and i use 12-56 strings. i have the same amp as you so i'm gonna say its your eq settings. i always boost mids and lower gain when tuning lower. also i turn low up and resonance down. i can give you exact settings for low tunings if you want
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schecter c-1+
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way huge green rhino
mxr micro flange
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#14
Quote by KailM
Thanks for all the responses guys! It could be just that my EQing needed to be changed. Or that my strings are wearing out. Or that I'm forced to play at low volumes because I have a neighbor who never leaves her condo. (My amp really does sound a lot different when you turn it up to "anti-social" levels - meaning it sounds a lot BETTER.)

Really I was just interested in seeing if it was even worth pursuing with this guitar. Ultimately, I'll try to get another guitar that's dedicated to low tuning. However, I'm not into this 'drop-F' or lower tuning. To me, drob-B is as low as I'd ever need to go...I'd like it to still sound like a guitar.

So I'm not really sure I need a baritone, but maybe a 7-string? I looked at an 8 string at the local store and just laughed - the thing was ridiculous. Any recommendations?


I have a Les Paul copy Ibby with a 24.75" scale length, an RG with a 25.5" scale and a Loomis with a 26.5" scale length.

I'm in drop B sometimes on my les paul copy and honestly man, like 90% of it is in the setup. Usually it sounds clearer than the Loomis with a 26.5" scale length just because I have relatively large strings on it.

In terms of an affordable and massive bang for buck 7 I would try to pickup either a 7421 or 7620. Both are or I should say were made in Japan, and have quality parts used sans pickups.

Swap the pups out for a LiquiFire/Crunchlab combo and you have a sick ass guitar!
#15
I can usually take it down to drop C on my Epi SG, my advice would be to try a set of Dunlop Heavy Core 12-54. They are the same gauge as your strings now, but they have been very kind to my sound when even Ernie Ball 13-56 weren't you might even want to try the Heavy core Heavy 7 10-60 and just use the bottom 6 strings instead of all 7. I say try some new strings because thats like a $5 fix instead of buying a new guitar which is probably for what you want to play, somewhere between $200-$400.
#16
Quote by blaaargh
I play in drop B on my SG with a 11-48 set. Works fine for me. You should play with your EQ before getting new strings.

7-strings are awesome imo, the first time I picked up mine at GC I knew it was right for me. They definitely aren't for everyone, but if it's for you then you'll know right away.

Derek: people have been downtuning for a long time, it's just that it's getting really popular now with all this djent bs. Thergothon was playing in A standard (I think, maybe drop A though) in '92, and since then a ton of doom bands have been playing in B or lower.


i do realize that and i can think of a few other older bands who have done it, but it just got really popular those years i was playing blues. it kinda hit me like a brick wall. and those earlier years of my metal playing i was more on the mainstream side of metal. it just exploded. i personally don't care for guitars tuned that low, that is why there is a bassist, you just infringe on his territory if he doesn't tune way down, which doesn't sound that good to me (just my opinion) and than the guitar gets lost in the mix because guitars are a midrange instrument and when they are tuned that low there is a gap of frequencies in the song because there is no instrument to play there and above that you just hear cymbals. i may just be bitching here, but it doesn't really make all that much sense to me.

sorry for the interruption in this thread, carry on.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
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2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#17
How important for a 7-string is a 26.5" scale as opposed to 25.5" scale?
#18
Not at all, I have no trouble tuning down as low as G on my 25.5 7421. I prefer my Loomis (26.5) for tuning down that much though.

You guys are making a bigger deal out of scale length than it really is though lol.
#19
Quote by Mehtabb
Not at all, I have no trouble tuning down as low as G on my 25.5 7421. I prefer my Loomis (26.5) for tuning down that much though.

You guys are making a bigger deal out of scale length than it really is though lol.


B Std., A Std, Drop A all fine with the 25.5 scale? Does G work well enough on 25.5, though?
#20
Quote by Mehtabb
Not at all, I have no trouble tuning down as low as G on my 25.5 7421. I prefer my Loomis (26.5) for tuning down that much though.

You guys are making a bigger deal out of scale length than it really is though lol.


I'm asking because I'm considering a few 7-strings to purchase my first one. Schecter uses the 26.5, ESP (my preference) uses 25.5. Just trying to find out how critical the difference can or might be.

I appreciate the help.
#21
I've tuned to drop E (an octave down) on my 26.5". You really won't have trouble hitting B standard/Drop A or G standard on 25.5. A lot of it boils down to how well you can set up a guitar.
#22
i have already posted a couple of times in this thread, but i have a Gibson SG that i threw EMG 81's in that i mentioned earlier i have 11's on it in C# std, and the strings are very loose, i have the bridge higher, and that kind of loose feeling combined with the higher action can be good for certain things. fast riffing on the lower strings is awesome because you can really dig into it in a different way. you can bend any of the lower strings to hell and back on a pinch harmonic, and it is great for some usage. i would certainly not advise that for everybody, but i like it that way. :shurg:
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#23
I use an epiphone SG tuned down to C standard (yes,it's the Tony Iommi signature)
I string it with d'addario jazz gauge strings (13's),however I take out the wound G and replace is with the thickest non wound string I can get.When required,I do tune the 13's to E standard.That said,I'm a bassist,so these things are nothing compared to the ropes I play!

My advice,get a decent setup from a tech.
Seagulls,the chicken of the ocean.

Originally posted by Gunpowder:
Everyone just jumps on the bandwagon and gives the same advice in these situations. You know what? I'm going to be different. Call the firemen.
#24
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i have already posted a couple of times in this thread, but i have a Gibson SG that i threw EMG 81's in that i mentioned earlier i have 11's on it in C# std, and the strings are very loose, i have the bridge higher, and that kind of loose feeling combined with the higher action can be good for certain things. fast riffing on the lower strings is awesome because you can really dig into it in a different way. you can bend any of the lower strings to hell and back on a pinch harmonic, and it is great for some usage. i would certainly not advise that for everybody, but i like it that way. :shurg:


Yeah, I'm currently using an ESP Ltd EC-400 tuned to either Drop-C or B-Std most of the time. Heck, I've just realized I'm using D'Addario EXL120's (09-42). I have a pack of 10-46's here already, new I could use, but maybe I'll give some bigger strings a go in the meantime.

What will this guitar handle w/out additional setup?

Last edited by Misfit74 at Nov 16, 2011,