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#1
I work at a hospital in Canada, right near the Canadian/American border, and something strange happened yesterday. I was working in the ER, and an American lady came in with her son who had broken his wrist. The triage nurse told the woman that it would cost 150$ Canadian upfront before he could be seen by the doctor.

The lady was outraged, screaming that we were refusing her treatment and such. I told the lady she could pay the fee and be seen by the doctor, or she could get out (I work security). She promptly left.

This got me thinking. What gives her the right to be upset that we charged her?

So I ask you pit,

Do you think it is morally right that she was charged?

Personally, I think it's fine. You don't pay the taxes, you don't get the benefit, simple as that.


NOTE : If any american UGers know how much this would have cost in the states, please chime in.
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#4
I think even americans get free access to the ER.

And not only that, how do you know how much tax she paid? I assume you have some sort of sales tax. And I assume your government gives free healthcare to 18 year olds who have never worked, yet because she's from the other side of an imaginary line, you want $150 to treat her son's broken hand?
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#5
I don't know. She doesn't pay taxes so I understand why they didn't let her. It has just always seemed messed up to me that someone can go to the emergency room and not be helped. I know that's the way it works but it just seems weird. I wouldn't feel right about it.
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#6
I think the hospital should've treated it if it was more serious than a broken wrist, something like a stroke, heart attack, etc.

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#7
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I think even americans get free access to the ER.

And not only that, how do you know how much tax she paid? I assume you have some sort of sales tax. And I assume your government gives free healthcare to 18 year olds who have never worked, yet because she's from the other side of an imaginary line, you want $150 to treat her son's broken hand?

This. It's not cool.

It would have cost some outrageously high price here in the states if she doesn't have insurance. Even then it might not be covered.
Last edited by due 07 at Nov 14, 2011,
#9
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I think even americans get free access to the ER.

And not only that, how do you know how much tax she paid? I assume you have some sort of sales tax. And I assume your government gives free healthcare to 18 year olds who have never worked, yet because she's from the other side of an imaginary line, you want $150 to treat her son's broken hand?

Sort of. Treatment first. Payment later. Was kind of a dick move.
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#10
No, I don't think it's right. However if that's the way it is then you shouldn't scream and shout at the staff for it, it isn't their fault. And don't you guys have some kind of 'insurance' thing going on whereby you don't have to pay upfront if something happens?

I don't think anyone should have to pay for healthcare. However I work in an ED in the UK and over and over again I see foreign people (and British people, don't get me wrong, a lot of them are just as bad) treated for minor things, that do not need emergency treatment, but are given it for free anyway; just because we arn't allowed to say no to anyone. I don't mind if it's a threat to life/threat of loss of limb etc etc.; ya'know, GENUINE emergencies such as your child with a broken wrist.

IMO her son should have been treated, and monetary matters (if any) should have been dealt with later.

However, if this child had (for example) fratured his femur and an ambulance had to be called, who would've paid for it then? Would he have been left injured because he (as a minor) hasn't the means to pay?
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Last edited by rockdude375 at Nov 14, 2011,
#11
You shouldn't be charged up front in the Emergency room. If you make an appointment to see a specialist about something, then yeah...you need to make up for the tax deficit somewhere. But running in with an injured child looking for someone to do something, and telling her to pay that much to even be considered? **** you Canada.
#12
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I think even americans get free access to the ER.

And not only that, how do you know how much tax she paid? I assume you have some sort of sales tax. And I assume your government gives free healthcare to 18 year olds who have never worked, yet because she's from the other side of an imaginary line, you want $150 to treat her son's broken hand?



There is no Canadian free health care, we just pay for it in advance through income and sales tax. Minor get free healthcare, but I am fine with paying more tax so that minors can get healthcare. What I'm not fine with is paying for anyone to get healthcare, even if they are just visiting.

Candian minors yes, because they will most likely be taking care of me when I'm old and useless. People that have nothing to do with my country, no.
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#13
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I think even americans get free access to the ER.

And not only that, how do you know how much tax she paid? I assume you have some sort of sales tax. And I assume your government gives free healthcare to 18 year olds who have never worked, yet because she's from the other side of an imaginary line, you want $150 to treat her son's broken hand?

In theory yes. However in practice Canadian Hospitals providing free health care to Americans who don't pay Canadian Income Taxes would overwhelm the hospitals entirely as anyone who lives anywhere near the border goes North for their healthcare.
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#14
Quote by The_Sophist
There is no Canadian free health care, we just pay for it in advance through income and sales tax. Minor get free healthcare, but I am fine with paying more tax so that minors can get healthcare. What I'm not fine with is paying for anyone to get healthcare, even if they are just visiting.

Candian minors yes, because they will most likely be taking care of me when I'm old and useless. People that have nothing to do with my country, no.

I never said minors.

I said 18 year olds who haven't worked i.e. unemployed adults. He's paid nothing in taxes yet would receive the full benefits of the system.

You don't know how much she has contributed in sales tax. If visitors are a problem impose tighter border regulations and/or increase a visa cost.

oh, but you'd never do that because you (as a country) benefit economically from having people being able to cross the border easily. Who benefits from the sales tax of stuff bought by visitors? Who benefits from the taxes raised by exporting resources?

The economic ties between the 2 countries are enough to cover the few who abuse the system.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#15
Quote by The_Sophist
There is no Canadian free health care, we just pay for it in advance through income and sales tax. Minor get free healthcare, but I am fine with paying more tax so that minors can get healthcare. What I'm not fine with is paying for anyone to get healthcare, even if they are just visiting.

Candian minors yes, because they will most likely be taking care of me when I'm old and useless. People that have nothing to do with my country, no.


so basically, take care of me because i pay for it but fuck everyone else.

the bottom line is you don't deny someone healthcare, it's a right not a privilege.

EDIT: also, i'm not entirely positive how the Canadian tax code works...but i can assume that some people pay a higher/lower percentage than others, right? does that mean people who pay a lower amount of taxes should get less healthcare? people who pay more should get more?
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Last edited by Waterboy799 at Nov 14, 2011,
#16
Quote by The_Sophist
There is no Canadian free health care, we just pay for it in advance through income and sales tax.

There are very few things that annoy me more than "single-player universal healthcare isn't free" pedants.`
#17
Quote by Ur all $h1t
In theory yes. However in practice Canadian Hospitals providing free health care to Americans who don't pay Canadian Income Taxes would overwhelm the hospitals entirely as anyone who lives anywhere near the border goes North for their healthcare.

You make it sound like we're Mexicans.
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#18
Look, I would love it if the entire world could get healthcare, but it isn't feasible. The fact is that if American's got free health care in Canada, Canadian healthcare taxes would go up, by a lot. If you come to a Candian hospital when your life is at risk, they will do everything that needs to be done, free of charge. When you come in for something that isn't life threatening. Something that costs resources, medical staff's time, and any of the assorted other things that healthcare costs, your on your own.

It blows, but there's no better way for it to work.
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#19
Quote by The_Sophist
American's



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#20
Quote by The_Sophist
Look, I would love it if the entire world could get healthcare, but it isn't feasible. The fact is that if American's got free health care in Canada, Canadian healthcare taxes would go up, by a lot. If you come to a Candian hospital when your life is at risk, they will do everything that needs to be done, free of charge. When you come in for something that isn't life threatening. Something that costs resources, medical staff's time, and any of the assorted other things that healthcare costs, your on your own.

It blows, but there's no better way for it to work.


ah, the old "it doesn't work that way" response.
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Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#21
Quote by Kumanji
I think everyone has a right to be outraged at having to pay for healthcare, Americans in particular, it's a basic human right that should never ever EVER be turned into a tool for profit.


best thing i've ever seen you post.
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#23
I'm going to break this down the best I can.

In Canada, you do not have to pay upfront for emergency treatment provided that you have a health insurance card. Each province/ territory has there own health card. If you are an ontario citizen you have an ontario health insurance card, this would mean that in ontario, if you go to the emergency room you do not pay upfront to be looked at since you have ontario health insurance. If you were to be a quebec residence and went to the emergency room in ontario, you would pay upfront because you don't have an ontario card, and then you would be paid back later by your quebec insurance.

The lady in this case could not provide a health insurance card so therefore was told she would have to pay.


I would also note that a broken wrist is not a life threatening injury. If the kid was missing his hand, then they would obviously give him treatment.
sigh...
Last edited by enceps at Nov 14, 2011,
#24
Quote by enceps
The lady in this case could not provide a health insurance card so therefore was told she would have to pay.

Wait, srsly?

Everything I know is a lie!
#25
No, i think you're a dickhead for what you did aswell. You're a lot of things that are wrong with the world.

No one should have to pay for medical care anyway, and even if you think they should, well you're punishing her son for the fact that his mother is poor.

Let me guess, 'only doin mah job'?

Quote by due 07
Wait, srsly?

Everything I know is a lie!


No man it's on a peice of printed card, it has to be real and mean something because of that.
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Nov 14, 2011,
#26
Quote by due 07
Wait, srsly?

Everything I know is a lie!


Yea, you still need health insurance in Canada, it's just that all the citizens get free health insurance from there provincial governments. And the reason out of province citizens have to pay upfront is solely that doctors/hospitals don't have the database to check your health card number.
sigh...
#27
Quote by enceps
Yea, you still need health insurance in Canada, it's just that all the citizens get free health insurance from there provincial governments. And the reason out of province citizens have to pay upfront is solely that doctors/hospitals don't have the database to check your health card number.

I was just kidding. However your posts have given me greater insight on the Canadian healthcare system, so thanks for that.


Btw TS I'd hate to have your job. The more I think about it, it'd be awful to have to throw a mother and her injured son out on the curb because of some lines in the sand.
Last edited by due 07 at Nov 14, 2011,
#28
Quote by enceps
Yea, you still need health insurance in Canada, it's just that all the citizens get free health insurance from there provincial governments. And the reason out of province citizens have to pay upfront is solely that doctors/hospitals don't have the database to check your health card number.

That's silly, build the database when you're stuck with only Ottawa games to watch.
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#30
Quote by due 07
I was just kidding. However your posts have given me greater insight on the Canadian healthcare system, so thanks for that.


Btw TS I'd hate to have your job. The more I think about it, it'd be awful to have to throw a mother and her injured son out on the curb because of some lines in the sand.


Yea I basically found this out when I went to the walk in and someone from quebec was there, and the receptionist was explaining why he would have to pay for an appointment.

I also have empathy for TS, I've worked security and sometimes it sucks having to kick people out of places for certain things, but if you don't you'll lose your job pretty quick.
sigh...
Last edited by enceps at Nov 14, 2011,
#31
In the UK, any person who walks into a hospital can get treatment for free, you don't need to prove your identity or anything.
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#32
Quote by zach in black
It's funny because in America it seems like the only people to get free health care is illegal immigrants


lol wut?
#33
It is against the Hippocratic Oath to refuse to help a person in need of medical care.
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#34
Quote by Zoot Allures
No, i think you're a dickhead for what you did aswell. You're a lot of things that are wrong with the world.

No one should have to pay for medical care anyway, and even if you think they should, well you're punishing her son for the fact that his mother is poor.

Let me guess, 'only doin mah job'?


You can think whatever you want, but that's the world. Your idealism means nothing unless you can put it into practice. If you have a working system where the entire world get's healthcare, I'll back you up, I really will. But you don't, you bitch and moan "that shouldn't happen" but you do nothing to make it better.

Let me guess, "Don't have a job where I actually have to make decisions"?

Quote by Lemoninfluence
ah, the old "it doesn't work that way" response.



Ah the old, "I don't actually have an argument" response.


If you can come up with a system where everyone in the world get's healthcare and no one get's ****ed I'm all ears, but until then, no one gives a shit what you think should happen, because it's not possible.

P.S. To everyone saying they pity my job, 99% of the time I'm helping patients and visitor's. The 1% of the time where I have to do things like this suck, but if your going to waste doctor's and nurses time needlessy, then I'm going to kick you out.
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theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#35
(directed toward people talking about illegal mexican immigrants)


My family is illegal. We have paid thousands of dollars to the hospitals whenever something happens.

Instead of generalizing, educate yourself please (since you don't want us to).
#36
Quote by Kumanji
I think everyone has a right to be outraged at having to pay for healthcare, Americans in particular, it's a basic human right that should never ever EVER be turned into a tool for profit.


I disagree. Hospitals and pharmacies should be able to make a profit or AT LEAST paid accordingly, which is not being done under current Medicare/Medicaid

(American)

However, the hospital should have taken them of course.
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#37
Quote by the bartender
It is against the Hippocratic Oath to refuse to help a person in need of medical care.

He isn't a Doctor and is therefore not bound by the Hippocratic Oath.
#38
Quote by Weaponized
(directed toward people talking about illegal mexican immigrants)


My family is illegal. We have paid thousands of dollars to the hospitals whenever something happens.

Instead of generalizing, educate yourself please (since you don't want us to).

Why would you admit this on a public forum? That is just asking for trouble.
#39
Quote by Nosferatu Man
He isn't a Doctor and is therefore not bound by the Hippocratic Oath.

I wasn't talking about TS in person, just about this 'pay-upfront' rule in general.
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