Page 1 of 2
#2
Yes, you can. They share the same notes. The "pattern" wont be the same, obviously, but the notes and interval names will stay the same. C is always C.

B is not though... In some european countries B is H...
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#3
no, you can't play guitar scales on the piano. that defeats the purpose of guitar scales.

you can, however, play scales on the piano. but that requires knowing some basic theory (or just a LOT of rote practice with a scale books). and yes, you can improvise. but here's the thing. you'll need to know your notes and some theory to do it effectively. for guitar, you can just take a shape and play it to your heart's content. there's really no such equivalent on the piano.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#5
Quote by AeolianWolf
. for guitar, you can just take a shape and play it to your heart's content. there's really no such equivalent on the piano.


Sure there is. Those patterns exist on the piano as well. they are laid out differently since it's a different instrument, but you could learn the pattern for the D Major scale and play it to your hearts content just as you would on the guitar.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 14, 2011,
#6
Scales are the same on all instruments. But they are a bit more difficult on a piano. This is because on a guitar you can pretty much learn a scale one time and move it to 12 keys. On a piano you kind of have to learn the scale 12 times.
#7
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
Scales are the same on all instruments. But they are a bit more difficult on a piano. This is because on a guitar you can pretty much learn a scale one time and move it to 12 keys. On a piano you kind of have to learn the scale 12 times.



And the advantage is now that keys are no longer some magical abstract concept.
#8
Quote by GuitarMunky
Sure there is. Those patterns exist on the piano as well. they are laid out differently since it's a different instrument, but you could learn the pattern for the D Major scale and play it to your hearts content just as you would on the guitar.


you play me a C major and a C# major scale using the same fingering on a piano. you'll be able to do it eventually, but it's going to be extremely impractical. and impractical keyboard technique will not get you anywhere near as far as it might on guitar.

i'm talking patterns as a whole. you learn the pattern for a G major scale on the guitar, you just learned it in every key. the piano has absolutely no such thing.

obviously the patterns exist on piano. in fact, they're encouraged even if you know the theory. the rote practice is excellent for functionality.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#9
Scales are scales, whether you play it on a guitar, a piano, a violin, cello, etc, they are all the same.
#10
Quote by AeolianWolf
you play me a C major and a C# major scale using the same fingering on a piano. you'll be able to do it eventually, but it's going to be extremely impractical. and impractical keyboard technique will not get you anywhere near as far as it might on guitar.

i'm talking patterns as a whole. you learn the pattern for a G major scale on the guitar, you just learned it in every key. the piano has absolutely no such thing.

obviously the patterns exist on piano. in fact, they're encouraged even if you know the theory. the rote practice is excellent for functionality.


I get what you're saying: You can use scale shapes on guitar and then improvise in any key without having to learn what the actual notes of the scale are. you really can't do that on the piano at all, since it's in a line, and there is only one place you can play each note in each octave, as opposed to the half a dozen options for each note in each octave on a guitar.

I'm not sure exactly what the OP was asking, it seems like he may have just been asking if the notes were the same. Obviously a piano doesn't have a fretboard, so asking if you can play the same scale shapes on a piano as on a guitar would be kind of a lame-brained question if you ask me

I think vampirelazarus had the most accurate answer: the "patterns" aren't there, but the scales are still the same notes and intervals.

(although jazz_rock_feel has my favorite response )
#11
Quote by will30x
And do improvisation?
Thanks for your answers.
Will


Scales are a series of intervals. The specific series of intervals are determined by what kind of key you're in (major, minor). The tonic, or starting note, is also determined by what key you're in. The intervals then determine what notes you play from that. For example, Eb major has a different starting note, and different series of intervals and therefore consists of different notes, than A minor.

You can play these notes on any instrument that produces notes. You can play "guitar scales" on a trombone or a xylophone. It's all the same scale. A major scale is a major scale is a major scale.

PS the piano came before guitars. Guitars are really playing "Piano scales". And Pianos are playing harpsichord scales, and so on and so forth.

Quote by AeolianWolf
no, you can't play guitar scales on the piano. that defeats the purpose of guitar scales.

you can, however, play scales on the piano. but that requires knowing some basic theory (or just a LOT of rote practice with a scale books). and yes, you can improvise. but here's the thing. you'll need to know your notes and some theory to do it effectively. for guitar, you can just take a shape and play it to your heart's content. there's really no such equivalent on the piano.


"Defeats the purpose of guitar scales"... what? I don't understand what that's supposed to mean.
It's the same interval structure no matter what the instrument is. wwhwwwh doesn't change when you switch to piano. If you know how a scale is constructed (which you should, that's like... day one, lesson one), then you should be able to play it on any instrument. (As long as you're technically able, I guess. I never did manage to make a trumpet make any noise.)
You need to know your notes and some theory on the guitar to do it effectively as well. Playing pentatonic box patterns over and over again gets a little worn out.

Edit: The correct answer is this:
Quote by jazz_rock_feel


..
Last edited by stratdax at Nov 15, 2011,
#12
Once you've played a scale on guitar, you absolutely cannot play the same scale on the piano in the same song, and you can't improvise at piano, you can only play whats written on the sheet music, and if there isn't any sheet music... that's just tough.
#13
Quote by stratdax
Scales are a series of intervals. The specific series of intervals are determined by what kind of key you're in (major, minor). The tonic, or starting note, is also determined by what key you're in. The intervals then determine what notes you play from that. For example, Eb major has a different starting note, and different series of intervals and therefore consists of different notes, than A minor.

You can play these notes on any instrument that produces notes. You can play "guitar scales" on a trombone or a xylophone. It's all the same scale. A major scale is a major scale is a major scale.

PS the piano came before guitars. Guitars are really playing "Piano scales". And Pianos are playing harpsichord scales, and so on and so forth.


"Defeats the purpose of guitar scales"... what? I don't understand what that's supposed to mean.
It's the same interval structure no matter what the instrument is. wwhwwwh doesn't change when you switch to piano. If you know how a scale is constructed (which you should, that's like... day one, lesson one), then you should be able to play it on any instrument. (As long as you're technically able, I guess. I never did manage to make a trumpet make any noise.)
You need to know your notes and some theory on the guitar to do it effectively as well. Playing pentatonic box patterns over and over again gets a little worn out.




playing "guitar scales" on an instrument other than a guitar makes no sense. but frankly i'm not surprised that went over your head.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Nov 15, 2011,
#14
Quote by vampirelazarus
B is not though... In some european countries B is H...


I used to play in a band in Germany, and the German bass player suggested the American guitarist play an H - classic scene
#15
playing "guitar scales" on an instrument other than a guitar makes no sense. but frankly i'm not surprised that went over your head.


Guitar scales are Piano scales. Infact, all scales are derived from the scales/chords from the Piano. Theres no getting around this fact.
#16
Quote by AeolianWolf


playing "guitar scales" on an instrument other than a guitar makes no sense. but frankly i'm not surprised that went over your head.

Ahh God, man I love this shit... absolutely love it.
#17
Quote by zincabopataurio
Scales are scales, whether you play it on a guitar, a piano, a violin, cello, etc, they are all the same.


Yea...THAT!!!
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#18
Quote by AeolianWolf
you play me a C major and a C# major scale using the same fingering on a piano. you'll be able to do it eventually, but it's going to be extremely impractical. and impractical keyboard technique will not get you anywhere near as far as it might on guitar.



every instrument has it's advantages and it's difficulties.

For instance on the piano, if you learn the pattern for any particular scale, it's the same pattern octave after octave up and down the keyboard. Rather than having to learn various movable shapes, you just learn 1 pattern.

Knowledge is nice, but it's not more necessary on the piano than it is on any other instrument.


Quote by AeolianWolf


i'm talking patterns as a whole. you learn the pattern for a G major scale on the guitar, you just learned it in every key. the piano has absolutely no such thing.


Yes it does as explained above.

Quote by AeolianWolf

obviously the patterns exist on piano. in fact, they're encouraged even if you know the theory. the rote practice is excellent for functionality.


well, yeah, patterns exist on any musical instrument. That's because they are designed to play music, which just happens to be full of patterns.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 15, 2011,
#20
Quote by Cavalcade
No, you can't play 25.5" on a piano. Or 26.5", for that matter. Guitar scales are lengths. You can't play lengths on a piano.


LMAO

OK
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#21
Quote by AeolianWolf

playing "guitar scales" on an instrument other than a guitar makes no sense. but frankly i'm not surprised that went over your head.


You're right, it makes no sense, because there's no such thing. Which is what I was explaining. Explain yourself.
#22
Ok look..

a Scale is a scale...

this is a C maj Pentatonic Scale


it can be played on any instrument. so Yes.. Scales that you can play on a guitar, can be played on a piano...
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#25
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Only in MT...


Quote by GuitarMunky
so true


True.. but I never expect to see this...
No, you can't play 25.5" on a piano. Or 26.5", for that matter. Guitar scales are lengths. You can't play lengths on a piano.


I'm truly....TRULY hoping that was a joke.. cuz it made me laugh...
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#26
Quote by Papabear505
True.. but I never expect to see this...


I'm truly....TRULY hoping that was a joke.. cuz it made me laugh...



LOL, yeah. I won't say it's completely unexpected cause I've seen some pretty silly stuff here, but it definitely made me go .."whhaaattt???"
shred is gaudy music
#27
Try composing a song in an open C tuning on guitar with your "one pattern fits all".

You do develop you're ear faster though, unless you learn every newly sprung pattern for every chord again.

Guitar has the "disadvantage" of creatively "solving" the lack of a sustain pedal, and hard fingers for some chords and passages. Any classical guitarist can tell you this.

I say "disadvantage" cause I take great enjoyment out of creatively dealing with this.

I find myself rather defensive about this post

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 15, 2011,
#28
Quote by xxdarrenxx


I find myself rather defensive about this post


I can't understand why you would be definsive...

simple answer to his question is Yes

You can play any scale on a piano that you can play on a guitar... or a trumpet, or a flute, or a ukelale.. Heck you can do it on a kazoo if you like..
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#30
Quote by Papabear505
I'm truly....TRULY hoping that was a joke.. cuz it made me laugh...

Don't worry, it was a joke. But that's the only real "guitar scale"; musical scales aren't specific to one instrument (microtonal scales aside), like everyone else here has pointed out.
#31
Quote by Papabear505
I can't understand why you would be definsive...

simple answer to his question is Yes

You can play any scale on a piano that you can play on a guitar... or a trumpet, or a flute, or a ukelale.. Heck you can do it on a kazoo if you like..



I can't either.. maybe my psychiatrist can explain.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#32
Quote by Cavalcade
Don't worry, it was a joke. But that's the only real "guitar scale"; musical scales aren't specific to one instrument (microtonal scales aside), like everyone else here has pointed out.



WHEW!!... LMAO.. and You sir.. Are correct.. No Guitar Scales...

Now I wonder if the OP baited everyone with that... prolly not.. LOL
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#33
Quote by GuitarMunky
every instrument has it's advantages and it's difficulties.

For instance on the piano, if you learn the pattern for any particular scale, it's the same pattern octave after octave up and down the keyboard. Rather than having to learn various movable shapes, you just learn 1 pattern.

Knowledge is nice, but it's not more necessary on the piano than it is on any other instrument.


you're right. it's no more necessary than on any other instrument. but on guitar it sure as hell is less than necessary. which is why we have this forum. and i'm speaking from the point of view of a guitarist. so unless you're going to try to convince me this is ultimate-clarinet.com, you're going to have a fun time refuting my points.

Quote by GuitarMunky
Yes it does as explained above.


guess i'll have to spell it out from square one.

take the G major scale pattern on guitar. move it up a fret. congratulations! you have Ab major!

take a G major scale on the piano. shift it up one fre--oh, wait a minute. there are no frets on the piano! :P xD you'll need to actually think about it, which you would not need to do on guitar.

Quote by GuitarMunky
well, yeah, patterns exist on any musical instrument. That's because they are designed to play music, which just happens to be full of patterns.


this is true. but average joe won't be able to bullshit around on a piano like he could on a guitar. it would require a lot more practice and a lot more knowledge.

Quote by stratdax
You're right, it makes no sense, because there's no such thing. Which is what I was explaining. Explain yourself.


you just explained my logic, and then asked me to explain myself. see where we're going with this?

there's no such thing as a "guitar scale". you can play a major scale on a guitar, but it is not a "guitar major scale". it is a major scale. scales are possible on any instrument capable of producing a single note with a compass of at least an octave.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#34
Quote by AeolianWolf


there's no such thing as a "guitar scale". you can play a major scale on a guitar, but it is not a "guitar major scale". it is a major scale. scales are possible on any instrument capable of producing a single note with a compass of at least an octave.


That's exactly what I said in my first post and you insulted me. The OP clearly does not know what scales are or how they're constructed, so I explained it to him and WHY scales are the same on any instrument. But then you insulted me, so then I asked you to explain yourself (as in, why did you insult me when I what I was saying was obviously correct).

Quote by AeolianWolf

take the G major scale pattern on guitar. move it up a fret. congratulations! you have Ab major!

take a G major scale on the piano. shift it up one fre--oh, wait a minute. there are no frets on the piano! :P xD you'll need to actually think about it, which you would not need to do on guitar.


No shit, but anybody who has ever seen a guitar or a piano in their life knows this. Why are you even talking about this, because it clearly was not what the OP was asking.
Last edited by stratdax at Nov 15, 2011,
#35
Quote by AeolianWolf

this is true. but average joe won't be able to bullshit around on a piano like he could on a guitar. it would require a lot more practice and a lot more knowledge.

Average Joe won't be able to "bullshit around" on either, assuming "Average Joe" hasn't been taught to play either of them first. If he's already pretty good with theory, he might even be better at piano, since it's literally a visualization of the chromatic scale. Sure, a guitar is easier for transposing scales, but... wait... What the hell?
Why are we talking about whether guitar or piano is easier? I can't be fvcked to read through this whole thread.
#36
Quote by GuitarMunky

Knowledge is nice, but it's not more necessary on the piano than it is on any other instrument.


It seems to me that the guitar requires a particularly low level of understanding of what a scale is, because of the whole moveable shapes thing.

People learn scales on a piano in different keys by learning to understand the different set of relationships involved. People learn scales on guitar by learning a shape. This is why, I suspect, that your average intermediate guitarist knows a whole heck of lot less theory than your average intermediate pianist (or, really, almost any other instrument).

The relative ease of learning things by shape - not just scales, but chords, too - is part of why the guitar is such a democratic instrument. It's very easy to pick up a guitar and learn a few chords, to feel like you're making music right away. It's both a blessing and a curse.
#37
Quote by AeolianWolf
you're right. it's no more necessary than on any other instrument. but on guitar it sure as hell is less than necessary.


That doesn't even make sense.


Quote by AeolianWolf


which is why we have this forum. and i'm speaking from the point of view of a guitarist. so unless you're going to try to convince me this is ultimate-clarinet.com, you're going to have a fun time refuting my points.


Oh, but this IS ultimate-clarinet.com. I tell you it is.

Quote by AeolianWolf

guess i'll have to spell it out from square one.

take the G major scale pattern on guitar. move it up a fret. congratulations! you have Ab major!


yay, how convenient for us!!!!

That convenience though, doesn't negate the benefits of theory knowledge. and like I said, the piano has it's pattern based conveniences as well.

Quote by AeolianWolf

take a G major scale on the piano. shift it up one fre--oh, wait a minute. there are no frets on the piano! :P xD you'll need to actually think about it, which you would not need to do on guitar.


If you plan to make music, you need to listen, and "think" about it regardless of your chosen instrument. The convenience of an instruments layout doesn't change what music IS or what goes into creating it.


Quote by AeolianWolf

this is true. but average joe won't be able to bullshit around on a piano like he could on a guitar. it would require a lot more practice and a lot more knowledge.

I disagree. You can learn patterns, use your ear and make music on a piano just as you would on a guitar.


Quote by HotspurJr
It seems to me that the guitar requires a particularly low level of understanding of what a scale is, because of the whole moveable shapes thing.


Well, no instruments require any particular level of what a scale is. When I learned the recorder in 4th grade, I could play a scale, and had no idea how to describe it theoretically. Same with the Saxophone which I played in HS band. You see a scale IS a pattern, and as such will be seen as a pattern on ANY instrument it's played on. If you listen you begin to connect that pattern with how it sounds... then you can make music with it, regardless of your ability to explain it theoretically.

Quote by HotspurJr

The relative ease of learning things by shape - not just scales, but chords, too - is part of why the guitar is such a democratic instrument. It's very easy to pick up a guitar and learn a few chords, to feel like you're making music right away. It's both a blessing and a curse.


You can do that on any instrument.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 15, 2011,
#39
Quote by :-D
holy shit this thread sucks


Don't they all?
shred is gaudy music
Page 1 of 2