#1
Hey,

I play guitar in a two-piece with no bassist and I'm looking to thicken out my lowend.

My idea was to get two cabs - a guitar 1x12 and a bass 1x15. I'd then have the two of them ran from an Orange Thunder 30 head.

However I was also hoping to run a 10-band EQ and probably an octave pedal into the bass cab only, allowing me to single out the bass notes as much as possible (probably 200/300HZ and below only, everything else shelved down), but I've seen that running pedals between the head/cab or the cab/cab connection will just fry.

Is there a way to do what I'm seeking without using a seperate bass combo/head to run through. It's obviously about half the price to buy just a 15'' cab than it would be to buy a full bass amp, and creates a bit more gear to lug about. Was also hoping to keep the tones as even as possible between the two amps (by just running the one head). The only other idea I had was using the FX loop as an output.

So have the guitar --> Orange Head, then the output from the orange head straight into the guitar cab as normal. Then from the FX loop send I'd put the EQ (and octave), and then run that into the bass cab. There'd be no "return" signal. I'm new to head/cab set-ups so I've no idea if this'd be enough to power the speaker, I'm basing that idea on my current VK combo (I run the send into a tuner but don't have it returning, so I can tune without muting the amp. It seems to split the signal at the FX and doesn't cancel the main one without a return).

Any suggestions welcome, cheers.
#2
Are you trying to run them at the same time? There are some serious flaws in your thinking.
1. You need a separate power amp to run the bass cab if slaved off the Orange via the effects send.
2. You are still sending all the bass into the guitar speakers - BOOM.
Even if you use two EQ's and set them up as a type of crossover you will get into trouble because many notes and harmonics overlap. I should imagine that even if you were to filter out the bass notes the attack from the frequencies that you do have to let through would kill the guitar speaker anyway.

Bad idea from all angles (unless I completely misunderstood you).
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#3
Quote by Cathbard
Are you trying to run them at the same time? There are some serious flaws in your thinking.
1. You need a separate power amp to run the bass cab if slaved off the Orange via the effects send.
2. You are still sending all the bass into the guitar speakers - BOOM.
Even if you use two EQ's and set them up as a type of crossover you will get into trouble because many notes and harmonics overlap. I should imagine that even if you were to filter out the bass notes the attack from the frequencies that you do have to let through would kill the guitar speaker anyway.

Bad idea from all angles (unless I completely misunderstood you).


I think you do. Firstly, it's a guitar I'm using, so I don't understand where the bass is coming from.

If a second power-amp is needed then that sounds like buying a bass combo would be easier, unless I got a small "stomp box" power-amp between the head and the bass cab.

My idea is to have the same amp and guitar signal, with it going totally dry into the guitar amp, and then EQ'd and octaved into the bass only. So there shouldn't be any bass going into the guitar cab at all, only the bass one. Gives me more control over the low end and the octave drops, and still keeps a dry guitar tone coming out the 1x12.

Does that make more sense?
Last edited by Heavens_To_Hell at Nov 17, 2011,
#4
Oh, ok, so not for guitar and bass, just two different cabs to change the tone?

Still no. You need a power amp to drive the second cab. The FX send is just preamp out - line level, not speaker level. It's not going to work.

The best you could do is just connect both cabs to the head (and set your impedance accordingly) and let it do what it does, you aren't going to be able to separately EQ what goes to the second cab without a second amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Nov 17, 2011,
#5
Quote by Cathbard
Oh, ok, so not for guitar and bass, just two different cabs to change the tone?

Still no. You need a power amp to drive the second cab. The FX send is just preamp out - line level, not speaker level. It's not going to work.


Would a power amp be cheaper/better/smaller than just buying a combo?
Last edited by Heavens_To_Hell at Nov 17, 2011,
#6
The thing you are missing is that if you want a different signal to each cab you will need a separate power amp for each cab. What you are talking about is stereo amping. You need two amps to do that. A preamp (which is FX send) will not drive a speaker, it needs a power amp between the preamps and the speakers.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#7
Quote by Heavens_To_Hell
I think you do. Firstly, it's a guitar I'm using, so I don't understand where the bass is coming from.

If a second power-amp is needed then that sounds like buying a bass combo would be easier, unless I got a small "stomp box" pre-amp between the head and the bass cab.

My idea is to have the same amp and guitar signal, with it going totally dry into the guitar amp, and then EQ'd and octaved into the bass only. So there shouldn't be any bass going into the guitar cab at all, only the bass one. Gives me more control over the low end and the octave drops, and still keeps a dry guitar tone coming out the 1x12.

Does that make more sense?

How could you replace a power amp with a 'stomp box pre-amp?' I don't think you understand what he's saying with that. The effects send is a line level signal, it needs to be amplified to drive the speakers, which means you need another power amp. Also I don't know what you're talking about with your VK, but plugging in to the effects send and not the return will not pass the signal to the power amp of the Thunder. So even if you could do that you'd just have the bass cab working, not the guitar cab.

Overall this is just a bad idea, mainly because its not going to sound like a bass. Just because its a bass cab won't make it sound like bass, and it will likely make your guitar sound horrible. EQing and octaves can come close, but I don't think its going to work the way you describe.

The only thing I can think of that would let you do this would be an A/B/Y switcher and two seperate amps, guitar and bass. That way you run the guitar into the switcher on the 'Y' setting then to the guitar and bass amp, with appropriate effects before each.

I don't think its necessary at all though, just dial in a sound with a bit more bass and be sure to play in the lower frequencies throughout your songs.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#8
Quote by tubetime86
How could you replace a power amp with a 'stomp box pre-amp?' I don't think you understand what he's saying with that. The effects send is a line level signal, it needs to be amplified to drive the speakers, which means you need another power amp. Also I don't know what you're talking about with your VK, but plugging in to the effects send and not the return will not pass the signal to the power amp of the Thunder. So even if you could do that you'd just have the bass cab working, not the guitar cab.

Overall this is just a bad idea, mainly because its not going to sound like a bass. Just because its a bass cab won't make it sound like bass, and it will likely make your guitar sound horrible. EQing and octaves can come close, but I don't think its going to work the way you describe.

The only thing I can think of that would let you do this would be an A/B/Y switcher and two seperate amps, guitar and bass. That way you run the guitar into the switcher on the 'Y' setting then to the guitar and bass amp, with appropriate effects before each.

I don't think its necessary at all though, just dial in a sound with a bit more bass and be sure to play in the lower frequencies throughout your songs.


The pre-amp thing was an accidental typo sorry.

I wasn't planning to run the VK and the orange together, I was just saying I've ran things as an output from the FX loop (admittedly only a tuner pedal), but not had a return back into the FX, and I've still had sound from the speaker and a signal going into the tuning pedal. Wasn't sure if the two'd work together.

And I've seen people doing the dual amp thing. I'm not set on it, was going to go try a few configurations, but this was one I was less sure about the technical chaining side. This has cleared a lot up, thanks.
#10
Quote by Heavens_To_Hell
The pre-amp thing was an accidental typo sorry.

I wasn't planning to run the VK and the orange together, I was just saying I've ran things as an output from the FX loop (admittedly only a tuner pedal), but not had a return back into the FX, and I've still had sound from the speaker and a signal going into the tuning pedal. Wasn't sure if the two'd work together.

And I've seen people doing the dual amp thing. I'm not set on it, was going to go try a few configurations, but this was one I was less sure about the technical chaining side. This has cleared a lot up, thanks.

I find the bolded very odd... Maybe someone can help me... Either way I wouldn't assume the Thunder will do that, as far as I know that's unusual.

I just don't think you need to involve a bass amp at all. I think you can get a great sound with a regular guitar set up. Look at Black Keys and White Stripes; they do just fine and don't have elaborate bass-emulating set ups.

If I were dead set on doing something like this I'd just have my regular guitar amp, then a super clean, powerful SS amp in stereo and cut basically all but the bass frequencies on the SS amp... That would just add a little 'bump' to your lows.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#11
I know I guy who does something similar, he just uses a bass combo amp and ABY pedal.
Current Rig:

Eppy SG w/Swineheads, Marshall DSL 5c, Joyo Vintage OD, Joyo British Sound, Sounds Sounds Fuzz Face, GGG Guv'nor, Dr. Boogie Pedal, Crybaby in Red Sparkle, Digitech Hardwire Delay

The things I would do for a Les Paul...
#13
Quote by tubetime86
I find the bolded very odd... Maybe someone can help me... Either way I wouldn't assume the Thunder will do that, as far as I know that's unusual.


I dunno if it's a weird quirk of the VK, but the speaker signal isn't killed when the FX send is engaged. However a signal still goes out to the tuner and everything. If I were to put another patch lead from the tuner output back into the return, then the sound would stop each time I engage the tuner. This way I can tune while still getting sound out the amp.
#14
Quote by tubetime86
How could you replace a power amp with a 'stomp box pre-amp?' I don't think you understand what he's saying with that. The effects send is a line level signal, it needs to be amplified to drive the speakers, which means you need another power amp. Also I don't know what you're talking about with your VK, but plugging in to the effects send and not the return will not pass the signal to the power amp of the Thunder. So even if you could do that you'd just have the bass cab working, not the guitar cab.

Overall this is just a bad idea, mainly because its not going to sound like a bass. Just because its a bass cab won't make it sound like bass, and it will likely make your guitar sound horrible. EQing and octaves can come close, but I don't think its going to work the way you describe.

The only thing I can think of that would let you do this would be an A/B/Y switcher and two seperate amps, guitar and bass. That way you run the guitar into the switcher on the 'Y' setting then to the guitar and bass amp, with appropriate effects before each.

I don't think its necessary at all though, just dial in a sound with a bit more bass and be sure to play in the lower frequencies throughout your songs.



Stomp box amp?

http://www.ehx.com/products/44-magnum

Here you go.


Stick an ABY pedal in the FX loop, let one go to the FX return, the other with an octave pedal to the .44, into a bass cab.

That said, its just 44 W so it wont cut through very well.

Just get an ABY and an octave, and send the bass signal to the PA.


EDIT: Get an ABY pedal, octaver and a Crate powerblock.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Nov 17, 2011,
#15
OK so I was just informed that your VK must have a parallel effects loop to do since you can use the send and not the return and it still works... So you could have your signal go to the amp, from the effects send through your EQ and octave then to the input of a bass combo... All while still playing your dry signal through the guitar amp.

This assumes that the guitar amp has a parallel loop, so if you want to do this you have to keep that in mind when buying an amp.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!