#1
I am currently using a Audio Technica M4000s. I have two. Would It be wise to instead of double tracking using both mics in different places and panning them? Also. Will a SM58 sound a lot more direct? Like, I love a good compressed close miced/direct sound. And this sometimes sounds a bit hollow. Now It could be that I am terrible at micing up my amp.
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#2
You're trying to mic an amp? The sm58 is a much higher quality microphone first of all, I would just use that off axis on the cone. But that being said, I would use it in conjunction with one (or both) of the AT mics. Put the 58 right into the cone and move the m4000 across the speaker until you find a tight sound.

A compressed sound will come from a compressor, and the direct sound from close miking. Make sure you're using headphones will you move the mic(s) around, you'll have a much better idea of where to place them. Double tracking without either flipping the phase or slightly offsetting one track tends to have that hollow sound.

One note, a lot of records were made with a single SM57 on the amps.
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#3
Or you can just work at getting the mics in phase with one-another by checking to see if adding the second mic increases the volume, or cuts it in half. If it increases the volume, you're good.
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#4
Quote by Artemis Entreri
You're trying to mic an amp? The sm58 is a much higher quality microphone first of all, I would just use that off axis on the cone. But that being said, I would use it in conjunction with one (or both) of the AT mics. Put the 58 right into the cone and move the m4000 across the speaker until you find a tight sound.

A compressed sound will come from a compressor, and the direct sound from close miking. Make sure you're using headphones will you move the mic(s) around, you'll have a much better idea of where to place them. Double tracking without either flipping the phase or slightly offsetting one track tends to have that hollow sound.

One note, a lot of records were made with a single SM57 on the amps.



I find that my M4000s have a harsh muffled sound. I am Shure that the SM58 will fix this. Should I use VSTs or get a better mic pre-amp/effects? Also thank you for your detailed response. Right now I have a Alesis Usb 8 thing. Not going through USB but through my line in. Going to one M4000 in front of my left bottom speaker.
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#5
The M4000 is a very cheap karaoke mic, really.

If you're on a budget but don't want to compromise, grab yourself a Samson Q7. It's about a quarter of the price of the SM57, sounds just as good, and is built like a tank.
#6
Quote by DustyR46
I find that my M4000s have a harsh muffled sound. I am Shure that the SM58 will fix this. Should I use VSTs or get a better mic pre-amp/effects? Also thank you for your detailed response. Right now I have a Alesis Usb 8 thing. Not going through USB but through my line in. Going to one M4000 in front of my left bottom speaker.



Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me if they did. That COULD (note the all caps COULD) be cool mixed with the 58. You just gotta experiment.

As for the VSTs vs hardware, I would almost always vote hardware. You can't improve upon the quality of what's brought into the computer. Though the Alesis isn't bad really, you could make a decent sounding recording with it. You should use the USB though. The line in on your computer is going to be really low quality. Your computer sound card is pretty good at playing sound but it's definitely not optimized to record it, hence an external USB or firewire soundcard.

Try this and I'm sure you'll immediately see an improvement in your tone. First of all, what DAW do you use? It doesn't really matter but it would help me help you. Now, run the Alesis as your soundcard instead of going line in and use the 58. You might have to download some drivers for this but that's the first step. Second, place the mic using some headphones while you play. You'll find a spot which will sound sweet to your ears. For now, stick to one mic.


N.B if you want to upload some tracks I'll help you improve them.
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#7
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me if they did. That COULD (note the all caps COULD) be cool mixed with the 58. You just gotta experiment.

As for the VSTs vs hardware, I would almost always vote hardware. You can't improve upon the quality of what's brought into the computer. Though the Alesis isn't bad really, you could make a decent sounding recording with it. You should use the USB though. The line in on your computer is going to be really low quality. Your computer sound card is pretty good at playing sound but it's definitely not optimized to record it, hence an external USB or firewire soundcard.

Try this and I'm sure you'll immediately see an improvement in your tone. First of all, what DAW do you use? It doesn't really matter but it would help me help you. Now, run the Alesis as your soundcard instead of going line in and use the 58. You might have to download some drivers for this but that's the first step. Second, place the mic using some headphones while you play. You'll find a spot which will sound sweet to your ears. For now, stick to one mic.


N.B if you want to upload some tracks I'll help you improve them.



My only problem with the USB is it doesn't play what I am playing at the same time. So I don't really know if my guitar is doing what I want it to be. That is why I did it like that. How do I hear through headphones how I am sounding and hear what I am playing with? There has to be a way. I am currently using Cubase LE5. Came with the Alesis. Ill upload one right now, two actually. Because they have different sounds. To give you a general idea. Do you have a recommendation for a pre-amp/compressor?


EDIT: They are up. Notice on College Radio the guitar sounds kinda far away. And same on Forget Me
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Last edited by DustyR46 at Nov 18, 2011,
#8
Quote by DustyR46
My only problem with the USB is it doesn't play what I am playing at the same time. So I don't really know if my guitar is doing what I want it to be. That is why I did it like that. How do I hear through headphones how I am sounding and hear what I am playing with? There has to be a way. I am currently using Cubase LE5. Came with the Alesis. Ill upload one right now, two actually. Because they have different sounds. To give you a general idea. Do you have a recommendation for a pre-amp/compressor?


EDIT: They are up. Notice on College Radio the guitar sounds kinda far away. And same on Forget Me


It's got a latency issue then, Google how to fix that on Cubase since I'm not very familiar with the program.

There should be a headphone jack or a headphone out somewhere on the mixer that will allow you to listen.

Those actually don't sound too bad. They could definitely use improving though. Look up the latency, plug headphones in, use the sm58.
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#9
SM58 over the 57? And what I meant is if I am playing to a click track and want to hear both what I am playing and what I have already recorded.
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#10
Quote by DustyR46
SM58 over the 57? And what I meant is if I am playing to a click track and want to hear both what I am playing and what I have already recorded.


Lots of people will argue that they are the same microphone, and in essence, they are, it's just that the SM57's cap is designed for there to be less space between the end of the microphone and the diaphragm, which is particularly useful for close micing guitar amps. Some people swear by an SM58 with the grille taken off, but I'd always slightly worried I might damage it if I did that too often, especially live.
In short, I'd always choose an SM57 for guitars, and an SM58 for live vocals, purely because it's what they are respectively designed for.
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#11
Sounds like I will look into getting a SM57 and see how much better that does for me. I would love to record songs.
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#12
That "hollow" sound could be the sound of your room itself.

Does it sound hollow with just the close mic?

If the "hollowness" only appears when you introduce the room mic, then the problem is the reflections and such in your room.

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#13
All of those are close miced recordings. I didn't really ever pull my mics away.
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#14
Here's a quick video I did comparing all the Shure mics in a similar price range to the 57. The 58 with the grille taken off sounds nearly identical to the 57.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlKlewX04E0

These are all brand new microphones, mind you (besides the fake 57), and this was the first time they'd ever been plugged in.


TBH, if I were to do it again, I'd probably get mostly all 58s instead of 57s, as they work better for vocals with the grille.
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#15
Can I have a link to said video? please and thank you!
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#16
Quote by DustyR46
I am currently using a Audio Technica M4000s. I have two. Would It be wise to instead of double tracking using both mics in different places and panning them? Also. Will a SM58 sound a lot more direct? Like, I love a good compressed close miced/direct sound. And this sometimes sounds a bit hollow. Now It could be that I am terrible at micing up my amp.


The hollow sound you're hearing could be due to phase cancellation. When recording the amp with more than two mics at the same time you need to make sure that they are exactly the same distance from the amp. Otherwise you'll get phase cancellation, which often creates a hollowness in your sound. The easiest way to deal with this is to follow 3 to 1 rule.
#18
I honestly didn't hear a difference between the two. It sounds like the SM58 will be the mic I get then. Thank you all for all your insight. I will test out a few things once I sell my Peavey.
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