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#1
So... I'm pretty nooby at this. I've decided I want a new amp cause... well, the one I got just isn't doing what I need it to do.

I got a 1970's Fender Champ Amp (used to be my dad's). It's a tube amp, with only a volume, treble, and bass knob. That thing has no gain (minus natural gain from increasing volume). One thing I love about this little amp is that it's freaking LOUD. I turn it up to 3 and I have to shout over it.

Because I play metal, I run my guitar through a Boss Metalzone pedal (this thread will NOT be for "METALZONE SUCKS NOOB GET XXXX PEDAL) to get distortion and such.

I want an amp that will give me a nice, metal tone and won't bust my wallet. (How about... 400 limit, 300 preferred?)

I have no preference between tube or digital, as long as the sound is good...
#2
maybe just get a better distortion pedal?

you can get the Wampler Triple Wreck, supposed to be pretty damn good
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#3
stick with tube amps. if you go out and buy a 50 watt solid state amp with a stupid amount of gain on tap, youre going to be disappointed in the long run. Especially if youre playing with a band. so youre best bet, is sticking with your low watt tube amp, pushing the shit out of it. and since you know its already loud enough, youre pretty much set. But how to push it you ask? try my set up, and i swear on my life, that youll be very happy with your tone.

buy this pedal used

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fulltone-ocd-obsessive-compulsive-drive-overdrive-guitar-effects-pedal

that with your fender will transform your little fender tube into a marshall or orange type amp. itll lower your head room and give you a really good rhythm. But if you want a little more, for that heavy metal tone, buy THIS pedal used, and put it BEFORE the ocd.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ibanez-ts9-tube-screamer-effects-pedal/150284000000000

or another tube screamer of your choice.

good luck bro
by the time you read this you will be wasting your time because it doesnt say anything
#5
check into bugara 6262 or get a nice eq ane gate for what you have now. I personally like the metalzone, like anything else you gotta play with it to get the settings you want.
#6
Check out some true valve distortion from Blackstar. I have a two channel distortion pedal from Blackstar and its amazing. Having one with moderate distortion then changing to a "in your face" distortion for soloing.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Blackstar-HT-Series-HT-DISTX-Tube-High-Gain-Distortion-Guitar-Effects-Pedal-104778568-i1395624.gc Single Channel

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Blackstar-HT-Series-HT-DUAL-Tube-Dual-Distortion-Guitar-Effects-Pedal-104778576-i1395625.gc Two channel
#7
The Bugara is... expensive.

And @hammettrocks, my problem is that my sound doesn't have enough shape, and I feel this amp I have is why.... cause... well... that's where the sound comes from. I play a lot of metalcore (KSE, ATR mostly), death metal (Death, Cannibal Corpse), melodeath (Children of Bodom, In Flames, going to learn a bit of Amon Amarth... Anywho), and thrash. Those are some pretty diverse sounds. And I just can't quite get all of them how I want them to.
#8
Could get a used 5150 combo? they run about 500 used around here. Lots of modern metal bands are using 5150's or variations (6505 etc.) It's Tube Driven and made in america!
I hate sanding
#9
'Muricuh.

500 is really pushing it, but from what I've heard, Bugera's really good. Though if I could find something good for a more aforedable price, probably go for that.
#10
no offence but $400 is kind or a crappy limit for a tube amp. Peavey Valve King 1x12 (would need a bit of stuff to pull off what you want) maybe a peavey classic 30 in the budget, but i dont think that will take you there a Jet City 2112RC is a decent amp in you price range AFAIK. maybe the answer is a Peavey 1x12 6505 (as previously stated). at the $500 used mark, the amps are a ton better, and there are typically a way bigger selection.

the best thing to do is to save.
the essential thing is to troll every for sale classified section on the forums, CL, Ebay, etc.

$.02
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#11
I stated I did not care if it was digital or tube, and I'm fully aware 400 is cheap for tube
#12
A bunch of people I know have the Peavey Bandit 112. 80W, plenty loud, super versatile, decent amount of gain. Prolly around 300 bones. Never heard a complaint about it.
#13
The Fender is going to sound better (even for metal) than anything you can get for $400. Thats just my opinion though. If you reckon a cheap Peavey or something would be better, go for it.
#14
I love the Fender, don't get me wrong. But it's made for cleaner tones. Hell, I got an oooooolllddd Fender Jazzmaster guitar, and the two of them combined is like making love to people through soundwaves.

Plus it's also my dad's. XD
#15
Quote by guy_tebache
The Fender is going to sound better (even for metal) than anything you can get for $400. Thats just my opinion though. If you reckon a cheap Peavey or something would be better, go for it.


i disagree. there is hardly any headroom so yea put a metal pedal in front of it then turn it up and get a bunch of power tube distortion? that wouldn't be good.

this would put you close, you could nail it with a boost. and its not over your price range. i didn't realize the price was dropped on these.

Jet City 20 watt combo with reverb. all tube. i owned one for a little while.

only downside is its single channel.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/jet-city-amplification-jca2112rc-20w-tube-guitar-combo-amp
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alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#16
I don't see single channel being much of a problem. Like I said, pretty new. (got my own guitar last Christmas, been playing bass before that for about a year, but not a lot)
#17
Not trying to be a bitch, but if you eventually want to play a gig, 20w wont do it.
I guess I don't really understand metal tone because I never play it, but I don't see why ss wouldn't do the trick...
#19
yea but it would be nice if you didn't have to worry about getting a bigger amp once you eventually do get a gig (a few years down the road), agreed?
#20
At that time I'd probably have money. And say I do get into a band in like... 2 years. I'm sure it'd be loud enough
#21
Quote by &baconstrips
Not trying to be a bitch, but if you eventually want to play a gig, 20w wont do it.
I guess I don't really understand metal tone because I never play it, but I don't see why ss wouldn't do the trick...


20 watts is way more than you need to gig. most places i play they have a PA so you can mic an amp. i guess you dont understand metal tone, because you clearly dont know what you are saying. yea a 50 watt will sound a little beefier, and will have more headroom but you can always roll back a knob. i have gigged with 30 watts plenty fine. one of my favorite semi-local blues uses a 5 watt champ, mics it and plays through the PA. he has some killer tone.


Quote by &baconstrips
yea but it would be nice if you didn't have to worry about getting a bigger amp once you eventually do get a gig (a few years down the road), agreed?


if he says he is far from gigging he probably is, you haven't heard him play. during the interim between now and gigging for him, he will probably go though a few different amps as his ideal tone will change.
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#23
again, you dont have a huge budget, you want to get metalcore/death metal/thrash tones. get a really good distortion pedal. you already have a tube amp, so let me again suggest the Wampler Triple Wreck.

here's a video of of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjfEkC2-qo skip to 0:53
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#24
Why get a pedal when you can get entire amps that do metal and much more?

Jet City JCA20
Peavey Ultra
Peavey XXX Super 40
Traynor YCV50B/YCV50Blue
Blackstar HT-20
Egnater Tweaker 15
Mesa .50 Caliber +
Mesa DC-2 or DC-3

Those amps are all within his budget used. The Mesa's stretch his budget by about $50 or so, and they might need a clean OD boost for metal, but any good tube amp will sound better for metal boosted with an OD anyways, so no loss there.

15-20 watts is PLENTY for gigging, especially if the gig is big. Big gig = PA system. The only benefit for higher powered amps in this genre is going to be a tighter sound; most metal folks are getting at least 90% of their distortion from the pre-amp and don't want power-amp saturation sponginess, but you don't need to saturate the power amp if you're gigging with a PA, especially if you're playing metal.

You anti-small-watt-amps-for-gigging people need to keep genre in mind. Higher wattage would be nicer for jazz/country where you need all that headroom, but most people playing metal aren't chasing after headroom, they get big amps for better tone (simply because a lot of the best metal amps aren't small, not because it's impossible to build one as such) and better power handling, not for more headroom.
Last edited by lumberjack at Nov 19, 2011,
#25
Quote by lumberjack
Why get a pedal when you can get entire amps that do metal and much more?

Jet City JCA20
Peavey Ultra
Peavey XXX Super 40
Traynor YCV50B/YCV50Blue
Blackstar HT-20
Egnater Tweaker 15
Mesa .50 Caliber +
Mesa DC-2 or DC-3

Those amps are all within his budget used. The Mesa's stretch his budget by about $50 or so, and they might need a clean OD boost for metal, but any good tube amp will sound better for metal boosted with an OD anyways, so no loss there.

15-20 watts is PLENTY for gigging, especially if the gig is big. Big gig = PA system. The only benefit for higher powered amps in this genre is going to be a tighter sound; most metal folks are getting at least 90% of their distortion from the pre-amp and don't want power-amp saturation sponginess, but you don't need to saturate the power amp if you're gigging with a PA, especially if you're playing metal.

You anti-small-watt-amps-for-gigging people need to keep genre in mind. Higher wattage would be nicer for jazz/country where you need all that headroom, but most people playing metal aren't chasing after headroom, they get big amps for better tone (simply because a lot of the best metal amps aren't small, not because it's impossible to build one as such) and better power handling, not for more headroom.


THANK YOU.

I don't know why people started posting pedals, especially after I posted, in caps, not a thread for pedals.
#26
Trust me bro, buy a good drive pedal. An authentic overdrive pedal that is made to push tubes into sweet sweet saturation. You're fender amp can be pushed to the tones you want. I promise. Just push it until its little 15 watt heart can't take any more.

Oh, and I play my suggested set up through my friends fender blue jr. Which is a modern 15 watt tube amp. Just like yours. so I know for a fact that the right pedals can push little fender practice amps into a good hight gain tone.
by the time you read this you will be wasting your time because it doesnt say anything
#27
If you're satisfied with the base tone of your fender, look at a nice OD pedal. That way, you wont have to spend as much and get a good tone.

If you aren't satisfied with the base tone of your fender, then yeah, look at a new amp. Either way, you're going to want an OD pedal though, they really help tighten up an amp.

Basically, the cheap and easiest way would be to find a pedal, like everyone is saying. But if you want a different amp then go ahead, its your money.
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#28
Quote by hammettrocks
Trust me bro, buy a good drive pedal. An authentic overdrive pedal that is made to push tubes into sweet sweet saturation. You're fender amp can be pushed to the tones you want. I promise. Just push it until its little 15 watt heart can't take any more.

Oh, and I play my suggested set up through my friends fender blue jr. Which is a modern 15 watt tube amp. Just like yours. so I know for a fact that the right pedals can push little fender practice amps into a good hight gain tone.



5 watt.
#29
Quote by Diesel Weasel
If you're satisfied with the base tone of your fender, look at a nice OD pedal. That way, you wont have to spend as much and get a good tone.

If you aren't satisfied with the base tone of your fender, then yeah, look at a new amp. Either way, you're going to want an OD pedal though, they really help tighten up an amp.

Basically, the cheap and easiest way would be to find a pedal, like everyone is saying. But if you want a different amp then go ahead, its your money.


he is saying he wants to play metal though. no overdrive (most certainly a TS-esque pedal will not get him to metal on a champ). you would need a 'metal' pedal.

for metal you do not want your gain coming from the power section, you want the gain coming from the preamp.

i think the Jet City JCA2112RC or JCA20 (head version) would be really good for you. i had one for a while.

_______________________


hammettrocks i dont think you have any idea of what you are talking about.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#30
I'll keep those in mind. I get to essentially hang out in guitar center. Gonna bring my guitar along and see which amps I like...

And maybe play a few shiny guitars XD
#31
Quote by jeleopard
I'll keep those in mind. I get to essentially hang out in guitar center. Gonna bring my guitar along and see which amps I like...

And maybe play a few shiny guitars XD


dont be afraid to take your time. if some salseman is on your ass, kindly ask him to check on you in a few minutes or to back off. dont feel pressured into buying something, honestly if you have a salesman who is pressuring you, i would find a different one. ask plenty of questions (most of them know considerably less than 75% of us do). dont be afraid to play a guitar/amp well above your budget, it may give you a feel of something that you like that you can find on your budget. have fun.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#32
Quote by Pg.inc_music
Peavey Vypyr valve 112?


+infinity.


Quote by hammettrocks
Trust me bro, buy a good drive pedal. An authentic overdrive pedal that is made to push tubes into sweet sweet saturation. You're fender amp can be pushed to the tones you want. I promise. Just push it until its little 15 watt heart can't take any more.

Oh, and I play my suggested set up through my friends fender blue jr. Which is a modern 15 watt tube amp. Just like yours. so I know for a fact that the right pedals can push little fender practice amps into a good hight gain tone.



A champ cant do more than 70's rock. There is no way on earth it will get a proper tight metal tone. It just doesnt have the roght frequency response. Even if you use a high gain distortion pedal.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Nov 20, 2011,
#33
I wouldn't gig with a 20W amp. Saying you can mike it isn't the point at all, with that argument a 5W amp is enough. I always mike my amp, regardless of its size, to not do so is pure amateur hour. However FOH isn't the issue, it's foldback. I am happy to let the sound guy look after FOH, that's what he can hear, but be damned if I'm going to rely on him for my on-stage mix. That's just asking for trouble. So, if I am trying to have total control of my on-stage mix it has to be loud enough to get over the drums without any aid. To do that and still get good cleans that pretty much means 50W+ and a decent set of speakers. That is totally independent of how big a gig you are playing, drums are the same volume everywhere, they don't have volume controls. When it comes to your foldback mix a gig is a gig is a gig.
I build 20W (well 18W) amps and I love them but I don't take them on stage.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
Quote by guy_tebache
The Fender is going to sound better (even for metal) than anything you can get for $400. Thats just my opinion though. If you reckon a cheap Peavey or something would be better, go for it.


A peavey Ultra would work very nicely for what he wants and can easily be had around $200.
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#35
Peavey Ultra/XXX/JSX would be a fine choice.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#36
Keep the Champ. Its a really bad ass little amp and down the line your tastes may change and you may regret getting rid of it (if thats your plan). $400 is way more than you need for an over the top awesome distortion/overdrive pedal.

I don't think I saw this earlier in the thread so if its been said, sorry... BUT if you do jam/gig with a group and you're running the same style or even model amp as everyone else, you're gonna be lost in the mix. Its not watts, 20 is great! Having a different set up helps you cut through when you need it. I've heard a few different philosophies on this. One is that when you have 2 guitars going, use tele style, strat style and/or les paul style. No one uses the same thing. That way you stand out. I feel like that would apply to amps as well. Just a thought. Feel free to expand on this or correct me if I'm wrong. Best of luck dude!
#37
I'm NOT getting rid of the amp. It's a great amp. Just not for metal. Which is what I do.

My friend has been talking about making a surf rock band, which that amp would be GREAT for.

Thank you all for the suggestions, will still take more
#38
saw a used 6505 combo on craigslist for 399 so I would assume there are other around at that price point if you can find them.
#40
Quote by lumberjack
Why get a pedal when you can get entire amps that do metal and much more?

Jet City JCA20
Peavey Ultra
Peavey XXX Super 40
Traynor YCV50B/YCV50Blue
Blackstar HT-20
Egnater Tweaker 15
Mesa .50 Caliber +
Mesa DC-2 or DC-3


What a superb list. The Mesa DCs would be ideal.
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