Page 1 of 2
#1
Aight, I'm doing a sort of ghostburst-silverburst type of finish on this guitar:


here is the mockup:


but I have a question. I can't tell if this is a stain or not. Is there a difference in the way to sand a stain or a solid color? and what grit sandpaper should I start out with... I know I should probably go from high grit to fine grit, what exact number grit should I use at first?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#2
to strip the original finish off, go with something like 60 or 80 grit. after all the paint comes off, use a higher grit like 120 to make it super smooth.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/burst.htm
to help with doing the burst
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#3
Quote by EspTro
to strip the original finish off, go with something like 60 or 80 grit. after all the paint comes off, use a higher grit like 120 to make it super smooth.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/burst.htm
to help with doing the burst

thanks dude is it normal for the finish to be all scratchy when first sanding? I surmised I was just scratching the clear coats.

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#4
yea it will get scratchy, just keep going till u hit the wooda
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#5
Quote by EspTro
yea it will get scratchy, just keep going till u hit the wooda

ok as far as painting, do I need primer?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#6
no primer. just after you add a couple of the base coats and the burst coats, u use the clear coat with like 10 ish coats to seal it.

browse around that website, lots of usefull tutorials
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#7
I'm done sanding, if anyone cares:


281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#8
your not done sanding
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#9
Quote by EspTro
your not done sanding

you telling me I have to get it that bright wood color all the way around?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#10
yup. u gotta go down to bare wood.
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#11
Quote by EspTro
yup. u gotta go down to bare wood.

what, will that color show through the paint?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#12
if u leave the finish on there the new paint isnt going to bond as well. and u would probably need more coats to cover up the red.
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#13
Quote by EspTro
if u leave the finish on there the new paint isnt going to bond as well. and u would probably need more coats to cover up the red.

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#15
aw dude that's an awesome veneer!

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#17
^ no its not?
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#18
Quote by EspTro
^ no its not?


Yes it absolutely is. An already painted surface is a lot easier to paint over anyhow. Fender used to paint the bad sunbursts solid colors. Epiphone still does. I've personally done it. Also, remove the back cover and the pickups and such! You're just making more work for yourself by leaving them in.
#19
Yeah, it'll be much easier if you take out all the electronics.

But you should sand all the way back to the wood for this. I've no doubt you can just paint over the paint that's already there, but if you want to do it properly, sand all the way back.
I believe the aim is to get the finish as thin as possible.
Quote by Kensai


Awesome guy right here
#20
Quote by Explorerbuilder
sorry to tell you man, but you wasted A TON of your time. if you are repainting, you only have to sand with 400 grit, enough to knock the gloss back off. Sanding back to wood is absolutely pointless.



^ This is correct. If you're shooting a new opaque finish, there's absolutely no reason (other than subjective preference, as apposed to objective necessity) to do anything but scuff up the old one enough for your primer to bond. The only reason, ever, that you would need to sand down to wood when shooting an opaque finish is if the new finish will chemically react with the old one adversely, but that is practically never going to happen for two reasons: 1) Any old OR new lacquer can have acrylics shot over it with no problem. 2) Most modern acrylic (and otherwise) guitar finishes are so inert after drying via catalyst, e.g. your standard 2K finish equipment used in factories and any decent sized production shop, that you can shoot lacquer over them with no trouble whatsoever as well.

I truly attempt to say this with no offense intended EspTro, but you're breaking a forum rule by giving advice about a subject of which you seem to be largely ignorant. People come here seeking help from people who know what they're talking about, not conjecture from people who don't.
#21
Quote by Joeval
Yeah, it'll be much easier if you take out all the electronics.

But you should sand all the way back to the wood for this. I've no doubt you can just paint over the paint that's already there, but if you want to do it properly, sand all the way back.
I believe the aim is to get the finish as thin as possible.

I'm no removing the electronics, as I don't have a solder to put them back in. I'm just covering them in painters tape and keeping them in their place.


Thank you lumberjack, I didn't completely get down to bare wood on the whole thing, just about like 10 square cm on the front. So I didn't waste a whole lot of time.

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#22
Quote by moscaespañol
I'm no removing the electronics, as I don't have a solder to put them back in. I'm just covering them in painters tape and keeping them in their place.


Thank you lumberjack, I didn't completely get down to bare wood on the whole thing, just about like 10 square cm on the front. So I didn't waste a whole lot of time.



You'll want to pay special attention to that area if the grain isn't filled/sealed. When you go to shoot your first coat of primer, you'll see the grain underneath that area but no-where else; if your primer is thick, you might get away with just laying on a few extra coats and level sanding in between each set of coats, but if not, you might have to grain fill it. Mahogany has pretty wide grain, so just be prepared for that possibility.
#24
Quote by moscaespañol
It's not Mahog, it's basswood.


Ah. Pics look darker than basswood, hence my thought that it was. Either way, good luck.
#25
Quote by Joeval
Yeah, it'll be much easier if you take out all the electronics.

But you should sand all the way back to the wood for this. I've no doubt you can just paint over the paint that's already there, but if you want to do it properly, sand all the way back.
I believe the aim is to get the finish as thin as possible.


Spraying on top of the old finish does not make "unproper"... Do you really think pro painters that charge 3000K$ for a car painjob strip the whole car with a sandblaster? nope.

It really isnt going to matter how thick or thin a finish is.... especially with a basswood body.

Why would you possibly want to sand all the way back, have to re prime and re seal, when there is already a perfectly flat, sealed body to spray on? There is no reason to go back to wood. And 95% of the time it wont come out nearly as nice as if you had just sprayed on the original finish.
Last edited by Explorerbuilder at Nov 21, 2011,
#26
Quote by lumberjack

I truly attempt to say this with no offense intended EspTro, but you're breaking a forum rule by giving advice about a subject of which you seem to be largely ignorant. People come here seeking help from people who know what they're talking about, not conjecture from people who don't.


well said.


no primer. just after you add a couple of the base coats and the burst coats, u use the clear coat with like 10 ish coats to seal it.

browse around that website, lots of usefull tutorials


^more poor advice.

But moving on, from here I would recommend primer coats for sure. Why? because its easy to sand, and you most likely have an uneven surface that needs smoothing out. Hit it with some primer, if it looks smooth enough for you go ahead with your base color. If it needs leveling then I would sand the primer with 200 grit or therabouts to get everything level easily.
#27
Is Polyurethane fine for a clear coat? I hear everybody talking about nitrocellulose but I'm not really fond of checking

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#28
Quote by moscaespañol
Is Polyurethane fine for a clear coat? I hear everybody talking about nitrocellulose but I'm not really fond of checking


poly is stronger and lasts longer... idk y people prefer nitro but i bought into the hype
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#30
sorry for the (sorta) bump, but how is this for the nitro?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#31
Quote by moscaespañol
sorry for the (sorta) bump, but how is this for the nitro?


its great, i used it, just make sure u have enough coats on there. and u need a lot of time for it to dry and soak in. about a week as they recommend
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#32
Quote by EspTro
its great, i used it, just make sure u have enough coats on there. and u need a lot of time for it to dry and soak in. about a week as they recommend

so should i get ~3 cans or will one be fine?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#33
1 can can do 1 full guitar. i think it says that on the website. but i personally would look after a poly finish since ur going solid colors and a glossy burst i presume?

i noticed that nitro is more common on guitars like les pauls to let the flame maple show through but if your not going to let any grain show u might as well go for the poly

i know u have a million answers and r confused lol but just go after what you want :P
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#34
Quote by EspTro
1 can can do 1 full guitar. i think it says that on the website. but i personally would look after a poly finish since ur going solid colors and a glossy burst i presume?

i noticed that nitro is more common on guitars like les pauls to let the flame maple show through but if your not going to let any grain show u might as well go for the poly

i know u have a million answers and r confused lol but just go after what you want :P

Ed Roman said that poly harshes your tone.

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#35
Quote by moscaespañol
Ed Roman said that poly harshes your tone.


that answers good enough for me xD

go for it man. like i said, i used les then half a can for just the front surface of my guitar. so 2 cans should be enough ( in different colors that is) for the burst color and the black all around
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#36
EspTro, I implied it kindly before, but please stop posting in this thread! Good lord. You clearly don't know almost anything about guitar finishing.

TS, you need WAY more than one can to finish a guitar up to a normal looking high gloss! At least a can's worth of grain fill/sanding sealer, then at least two cans for your final finish if done properly. Most tutorial will recommend much more than that, especially for a beginner, like anywhere from 3-4 cans per guitar.

Either way, you can get the same stuff (lacquer) for cheaper at your local hardware store. Poly and lacquer will both show the grain equally well, please don't take any advice from EspTro. Also, Ed Roman says a lot of things, and is wildly arrogant, so take a grain of salt with what you find on his website, but yes: poly is going to dampen the natural resonance of a guitar more so than lacquer will, but the difference is something that is only going to be noticeable once you've got a few things under control, namely - 1) you've built your guitar out of high quality lumber 2) you're playing through a well made amp 3) you're playing with top shelf pickups 4) you're using well shielded wide-frequency-response cables. The difference between a lacquer finish and a poly finish of the exact same thickness will be very minimal, if not totally imperceptible to the average musician's ear, but the difference is there. People are "into" lacquer because technically, some folks think it never really "dries", not unlike the reality that glass is actually a fluid, not a solid. Lacquer is less rigid than poly, and allows the wood to ring out more freely, but again, the difference is small, and I promise you'll never notice it unless you've been playing for quite a few years.
#38
Quote by lumberjack
EspTro, I implied it kindly before, but please stop posting in this thread! Good lord. You clearly don't know almost anything about guitar finishing.
.


imply all u want i can post wherever i want. u can kindly disagree
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#39
Quote by lumberjack
EspTro, I implied it kindly before, but please stop posting in this thread! Good lord. You clearly don't know almost anything about guitar finishing.

TS, you need WAY more than one can to finish a guitar up to a normal looking high gloss! At least a can's worth of grain fill/sanding sealer, then at least two cans for your final finish if done properly. Most tutorial will recommend much more than that, especially for a beginner, like anywhere from 3-4 cans per guitar.

Either way, you can get the same stuff (lacquer) for cheaper at your local hardware store. Poly and lacquer will both show the grain equally well, please don't take any advice from EspTro. Also, Ed Roman says a lot of things, and is wildly arrogant, so take a grain of salt with what you find on his website, but yes: poly is going to dampen the natural resonance of a guitar more so than lacquer will, but the difference is something that is only going to be noticeable once you've got a few things under control, namely - 1) you've built your guitar out of high quality lumber 2) you're playing through a well made amp 3) you're playing with top shelf pickups 4) you're using well shielded wide-frequency-response cables. The difference between a lacquer finish and a poly finish of the exact same thickness will be very minimal, if not totally imperceptible to the average musician's ear, but the difference is there. People are "into" lacquer because technically, some folks think it never really "dries", not unlike the reality that glass is actually a fluid, not a solid. Lacquer is less rigid than poly, and allows the wood to ring out more freely, but again, the difference is small, and I promise you'll never notice it unless you've been playing for quite a few years.

I agree with the bolded, he's a complete dick. and I guess when you say lacquer I suppose you mean nitro... but the more I look at nitro checking, the cooler it looks

edit: by 'he" i meant Ed Roman, not EspTro

edit 2: can you explain to me "grain fill/sanding sealer"?

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
Last edited by moscaespañol at Nov 23, 2011,
#40
im a complete dick? yw for sharing my experiences ....
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
Page 1 of 2