#1
This will be a long post I'll try and simplify it, please don't respond with tl;dr


Ok, our bandmembers are myself on guitar, (these are fake names) Gary on guitar, Bob on bass, Sam on vocals and Dan on drums.

We recently found a vocalist, Sam, who is enthusiastic and a competent singer. However, we realised we would have to change a lot of our material in order to make her vocal style fit in.

We were asked to play a gig, our first gig as a band, and said we would if we thought we were ready for it. Between being asked and the date of the performance we figured we would have around 8 practices. Gary turned up to about 3 of them.

Gary told me in private last week that he was uncomfortable playing as he didn't think Sam's vocals were very suitable and did not sound very good with our music. He said he would rather not play, but if the rest of us want to we can go ahead. I later said to Dan and Bob that if Gary doesn't want to play, we shouldn't play without him, and they agreed.

So I let the promoter (a mutual friend as well) know that we were not going to play. At this point I had not asked/told Sam. A couple of days later, Gary and Sam were both at a pub helping with an open mic night (not performing), and Sam found out from the promoter that we had pulled out, which she was not happy with. I received a phone call from Gary saying I had a lot of making up to do for not telling Sam we had pulled out. I was confused because whilst I had not told her, neither had he so he had no right to try and make me feel like it was my fault.

Later that evening, Sam phoned me and asked me to meet her at the pub, and that Bob was also coming. As I arrived, Gary promptly left without saying a word to me. The three of us had a talk about the state of the band and about the gig. We decided that we wouldn't pull out yet, and we were told by the promoter that we had 3 days to let him know for definite. So I phoned Gary and Dan and they said they agreed, and we would decide 3 days from then if we were going to play.

The 3 day point arrived (yesterday) and we had a communal jam session. It is part of a society run by the university so there were other people playing, not just us. Anyway, Gary spent over an hour playing with other people, wasting a lot of our pre-gig practice time. When we finally did start playing, Gary left the room without saying anything to any of us. Dan went to ask what he was doing and returned a few minutes later saying "He isn't going to play today, or at the gig". So we had our hour or so of practice, and decided that evening that there was no point playing the gig, because the songs didn't sound right with only one guitar, because we were not sure about Sam's vocals and because of all the time wasted because of Gary.


Still reading? Right, here comes the bit I only found out yesterday that pissed me off a lot.

I found out that before I arrived at the pub 3 days earlier, Gary and Sam had the following conversation after she found out we had pulled out without telling her:

Sam: Who even runs this band??!
Gary: Well it used to be me, but then Charlie took over. He takes everything over.

Charlie is me by the way

Firstly, he did not used to run the band. He has very limited communication with anyone and is introverted. Secondly, I did not 'take over'. Around 80% of our original material was written by me, approved by everyone and jammed. I also organised practices by booking studios. If that is what he means by 'taking over' a band then I am very confused.

I spoke to Sam privately yesterday and she said that on that evening at the pub, Gary had also "tried to use the fact that I hadn't told her about pulling out of the gig to paint me in a negative light" to use her words. Specifically, he told her that he thinks I am vain, egotistical and superficial when it comes to music, and that I am only in it to better my image rather than to make good music as a band. Sam said that she perceived this as jealousy. I think it is both jealousy and hypocritical, because every time I presented a song to the band, Gary immediately said "I'm doing the lead bits", and tried to make me play rhythm.

According to Dan, Gary has something he needs to tell me himself regarding the band. I can imagine it being something along the lines of "I don't want to be in a band with you, you take everything over and do stupid things like not telling Sam we pulled out." Me and Gary live in the same house and he has not said one word to me since.

Personally, I don't want to be in a band with him because of his warped perception of me, his childish behavior and his inability to communicate. Dan described Gary's behavior as "He's being a dick, so bitchy", and Bob said that "It was selfish what Gary did." Dan has said he doesn't really want to be in a band with Sam because he isn't keen on her vocals, and Bob agrees. This leaves the three of us.

To sum this up, myself Bob and Dan are unsure what to do bandwise. Conveniently, we had formed a side-project a few weeks ago for instrumental shred/rock cover songs involving the 3 of us and two additional guitarists. We are thinking we should shift our focus to that.


Thanks to anyone who actually read all this, very much appreciated. Hopefully it is vaguely coherent and isn't just a mess of gibberish. If anything is unclear ask and I'll try and explain it better, but I am not too sure what to think at the moment
#2
In my band our vocalist's style is more of a pop rock/RnB type thing when my drummer and bassist want to do emo pop punk type stuff.

Bottom line? We went with playing pop rock stuff because he was the best singer we could find.

So I'd say you guys play music that fits her, or find a different singer.
#3
Woah, woah, wait a second. Does this mean I don't get to see those awesome Racer X songs anymore??
Save a trip to the RT!
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#4
You guys sound like a bunch of idiots.

1. You get a singer into the band, then get worried that you have to change the songs for her? That's stupid, you shouldn't have let her into the band if you didn't like her voice.

2. You pull out of a gig without telling one of the band members because you're super nervous. Were you ever going to tell her? Just wait until she showed up at the gig to find out? That's stupid.

3. Then you spend the rest of the time bitching about eachother instead of discussing problems. That's stupid.

It sounds like literally everyone in the band is not ready for the outside world yet.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#5
pretty much what AlanHB said. if you guys can't deal with each other how can you hope to overcome other obstacles while in the business?
#6
Quote by AlanHB
You guys sound like a bunch of idiots.

1. You get a singer into the band, then get worried that you have to change the songs for her? That's stupid, you shouldn't have let her into the band if you didn't like her voice.


We were still on a "trial run" with her. We thought she had a good voice but wern't sure how it would fit our material. The gig was going to be the point when we decide if she's in or not, as we would be able to assess both what she sounded like and her ability as a frontwoman.

Quote by AlanHB
2. You pull out of a gig without telling one of the band members because you're super nervous. Were you ever going to tell her? Just wait until she showed up at the gig to find out? That's stupid.


No, I didn't ask her before telling the promoter we had pulled out. The reason I didn't tell her was because what I had been told by the others was that she was one of the reasons they didn't want to gig. Rather than tell her in a text I wanted to wait until we next saw her at the jam sessions to tell her as a band, however the promoter was not able to wait until then so I had to make a decision.

Quote by AlanHB
3. Then you spend the rest of the time bitching about eachother instead of discussing problems. That's stupid.

It sounds like literally everyone in the band is not ready for the outside world yet.


The bitching seems to be from Gary to everyone else about me. There's no conflict whatsoever between myself Dan and Bob. I have said multiple times to Gary, "If you have a problem with me then tell me, don't bitch about it to everyone except me", and that isn't just about the band that includes issues that arise due to living in the same house. However he continues to ignore my existence and continues bitching to everyone about me.


Quote by guitarmaniac88
Woah, woah, wait a second. Does this mean I don't get to see those awesome Racer X songs anymore??


Relax, the band I am doing those songs with is the "side project" I mentioned in the final paragraph
#7
Quote by Random3

Relax, the band I am doing those songs with is the "side project" I mentioned in the final paragraph



Ah, didn't notice that, still can't wait to see it, though.
Save a trip to the RT!
Quote by blake1221
If there's anything to take away from this thread, anything at all, it's to always cup the balls.


Top trolling abilities.

Quote by caeser1156
God dammit you had me 10/10
#9
Okay, first of all - you were wrong not to tell Sam about the cancelled gig right away. When you take responsibility for this sort of communication, you have a responsibility to tell every member of the band ASAP. The moment you had the conversation with your band about not playing, you should have called Sam and said, "Hey, this is what's going on."

That's your fault. Apologize to her for it and move on. I don't care if somebody else could have also told her - you are clearly taking a leadership role in the band, and thus it's your responsibility. Quite frankly, if you weren't sure who was supposed to tell her, then that should have been part of your conversation with them when you decided to pull out of the show.

Okay, that aside, I don't see why you care about what Gary said to Sam. Gary is making himself look bad by flaking on the practice. It sounds like Sam understands that Gary is the problem, and that Gary is making himself look bad by trying to talk shit about you. Don't reciprocate. Gary's behavior has been lame, and it speaks for itself, and it sounds like Sam knows that.

Basically, decide that you don't give a flying frack about what Gary said to Sam. Instead, decide something for yourself:

Do YOU want to play with Sam or not?

If you do, then do so, and if Dan wants to play with her, great, if not, then don't. If you don't, then do the side project. (Although I really don't want to hear a university band with three guitarists, but that's just me).

If you do decide that you'd rather do the side project, then be a man and tell Sam "yeah, it seems like this didn't work out, thanks, sorry again about the whole gig cancelliation thing."

But really, who the hell cares what Gary says or does? He's being a jackass and just be above it.
#10
Get rid of Gary. Get rid of Sam. Get rid of everyone. **** that shit, and go solo!

butsrsly, you should just get rid of Gary. He's holding you back, man.
#11
Quote by HotspurJr
*post*.


Thanks

I apologized to Sam on that evening at the pub and she was ok with it, so there isn't any problem between us now.


I think the general consensus is that the 3 of us don't want to play with Gary because he is a d*ck, and we don't want to play with Sam because of how her vocals fit with our music.
#12
I say call Gary out at practice. Tell him he either neess to get his stuff together and be straightforward or leave the band. Then talk to Sam about the band's music, see if she still wants to be in it without Gary, and carry on with or without her depending on what all of you guys decide. I think AlanHB kinda thought you're all angry at each other when it's just Gary who is being the intolerable one. Good luck with all of it.
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How was Confucius death metal?
You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

As I wait on the edge of the earth,
I can see the walls being torn down again
Only to be rebuilt in another name,
On a different day
#13
Quote by Random3
We were still on a "trial run" with her. We thought she had a good voice but wern't sure how it would fit our material. The gig was going to be the point when we decide if she's in or not, as we would be able to assess both what she sounded like and her ability as a frontwoman.


I'm going to assume that she thought she was part of the band. You guys even had a gig together planned. To assess a person's skill in a band you have auditions, not plan a gig together and get their hopes up.


Quote by Random3
No, I didn't ask her before telling the promoter we had pulled out. The reason I didn't tell her was because what I had been told by the others was that she was one of the reasons they didn't want to gig. Rather than tell her in a text I wanted to wait until we next saw her at the jam sessions to tell her as a band, however the promoter was not able to wait until then so I had to make a decision.



So you pulled out because some guy who has never heard you said they weren't coming. I wouldn't try to cover your liability in this situation - you purely weren't man enough to tell her. She had to find out through someone else. If it was because of the "reason", you could have told her something else, like your puppy died (or something more viable). I would have told her that you feel the band wasn't prepared enough. You were the one who cancelled it so you should take the blame.


Quote by Random3
The bitching seems to be from Gary to everyone else about me. There's no conflict whatsoever between myself Dan and Bob. I have said multiple times to Gary, "If you have a problem with me then tell me, don't bitch about it to everyone except me", and that isn't just about the band that includes issues that arise due to living in the same house. However he continues to ignore my existence and continues bitching to everyone about me.


There's an awful lot of finger pointing. I'm still going to say "yeah Gary's a dick, but you cancelled a gig without telling a band member". Which do you think is the more "dick" move?

But on one level, your gut feeling is right. Cut it with Gary, not because he's bitching, but because it's painfully obvious that he doesn't want to be part of this band anymore. He even went off and jammed with others during practice time.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#14
Quote by AlanHB
I'm going to assume that she thought she was part of the band. You guys even had a gig together planned. To assess a person's skill in a band you have auditions, not plan a gig together and get their hopes up.


Fair enough.

Quote by AlanHB
So you pulled out because some guy who has never heard you said they weren't coming.


Not sure I understand what you mean here.

Quote by AlanHB
I wouldn't try to cover your liability in this situation - you purely weren't man enough to tell her. She had to find out through someone else. If it was because of the "reason", you could have told her something else, like your puppy died (or something more viable). I would have told her that you feel the band wasn't prepared enough. You were the one who cancelled it so you should take the blame.


Well as I said I didn't want to tell her something like that through a text message. I wanted us all to tell her when we next met up for a jam. However I had to give this promoter an answer, so I said we are pulling out because 4/5 of us don't want to do it, which ended up being the wrong thing to do.

Quote by AlanHB
There's an awful lot of finger pointing. I'm still going to say "yeah Gary's a dick, but you cancelled a gig without telling a band member". Which do you think is the more "dick" move?


Let's see... I am guilty of cancelling a gig without telling one person immediately.
Gary is guilty of the same thing, plus not turning up to practices, bitching about me behind my back, not telling anyone what he is doing or why, wasting our time and being selfish.

Quote by AlanHB
He even went off and jammed with others during practice time.


Well, actually he didn't "go off" and jam with other people, he did it right in front of us while we were there waiting in the same room. Then while we were running through our stuff after he walked out he came back in with someone else who said "Our turn now" and started messing around on the drum kit which was just.... there are no words.
Last edited by Random3 at Nov 20, 2011,
#15
Quote by Random3

Well as I said I didn't want to tell her something like that through a text message.


This is the second tie you've used this excuse, and while I commend you for not wanting to do something like that via text message, I have to ask:

Are you aware that your texting device also does voice communications? That you can punch in a number and actually talk to somebody else in real time? Chances are you already pay for a whole bunch of minutes of talking conversation on your electronic texting machine - and Sam can use HER portable texting machine to talk right back to you!

I know technology changes pretty quickly these days, and you kids don't like to use the technology that us old fogeys like to use, but I just wanted to make sure - you do KNOW that your portable texting device also does real-time voice communication (which we sometimes refer to as "phone calls"), right?

I wanted us all to tell her when we next met up for a jam. However I had to give this promoter an answer, so I said we are pulling out because 4/5 of us don't want to do it, which ended up being the wrong thing to do.


No. Look, if 4/5 of the band doesn't want to do the gig, you can cancel it. And you immediately call her and tell her.


Gary is guilty of the same thing, plus not turning up to practices, bitching about me behind my back, not telling anyone what he is doing or why, wasting our time and being selfish.


Don't try to accuse Gary of failing to tell her. You said above that you were planning to tell her later. So you clearly understood that on some level you had taken the responsibility to let her know. Otherwise why all this prattle about when you were going to tell her? You say that YOU told the promoter that you were pulling out (not "we" - you say "I") and yet somehow it's somebody else's fault for not telling her?


Well, actually he didn't "go off" and jam with other people, he did it right in front of us while we were there waiting in the same room. Then while we were running through our stuff after he walked out he came back in with someone else who said "Our turn now" and started messing around on the drum kit which was just.... there are no words.


Your life will work better if you non-angrily learn how to confront people about shit like this when it happens.
#16
Quote by HotspurJr
*phone calls*


I know, but there is a difference between just me talking to her on the phone and 5 of us having a discussion in person. I figured the latter would be more appropriate.

Quote by HotspurJr
Don't try to accuse Gary of failing to tell her...


I'm not saying it was someone else's fault, I'm saying everyone is responsible including me. WE were planning on telling her next time we saw her, and then I hear from Gary that I have a lot of making up to do because I failed to tell her, as if he was completely innocent.

Quote by HotspurJr
Your life will work better if you non-angrily learn how to confront people about shit like this when it happens.


Well I said sarcastically "Yeah ok, it's not like you guys have a gig in 7 days" which he ignored, as with everything I say to him.
#17
Almost this exact same situation happened to me about 2 years ago. Female vocalist, whose voice we weren't fond of, and another band member (it was our drummer) who was being a total dick. Myself, our other guitarist, and bass player went out and found a new drummer and started a side project, just as you did. Today, that side project is now our main project and the band with the girl and dick no longer exists.

If you want advice from someone whose been through a very similar if not identical situation, leave those two and focus on your other project. You'll be happier and you'll more than likely end up making better music. (I did anyway)
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#18
Quote by lespaul1216
Almost this exact same situation happened to me about 2 years ago. Female vocalist, whose voice we weren't fond of, and another band member (it was our drummer) who was being a total dick. Myself, our other guitarist, and bass player went out and found a new drummer and started a side project, just as you did. Today, that side project is now our main project and the band with the girl and dick no longer exists.

If you want advice from someone whose been through a very similar if not identical situation, leave those two and focus on your other project. You'll be happier and you'll more than likely end up making better music. (I did anyway)



Creepy coincidence

Yeah I think that's what we are going to do, for now at least.
#19
Notice all of your problems seem to stem from poor communication?

Solution: communicate better.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#20
i say kick gary, he obviously got some side issues that might hinder the band as a whole later down the road.
#22
Quote by axemanchris
Notice all of your problems seem to stem from poor communication?

Solution: communicate better.

CT


Hit the nail squarely on the head there Chris.

It isn't rocket science, any news on the band front, especially news on gigs, should immediately be conveyed to the rest of the band, the whole band, even if some of them are only considered as temporary or on a "trial run". It doesn't really matter whether you text them, phone them or go to their house and tell them in person, the point is, they should be contacted and told the news as soon as is humanly possible, if it's something that should be talked about then you simply all arrange to meet up and talk about it, but leaving people out of the loop until the next time you see them is A) unprofessional B) unconstuctive, and C) downright rude.
#23
Firstly, good singers are like talking dogs (rare), and good singers who instantly fit into a band are like dogs which talk spanish (even rarer). In what way is her voice wrong for your band? Can you not all mutually adapt and call it musical development?

Concerning your guitarist, it would seem that an ultimatum is in order. Tell him to improve his attitude or you'll kick him out. Then if in the future he's missing practices, complaining about parts and generally threatening group cohesion, ditch him. At the end of the day, half the freaking world plays guitar. You should be able to replace him fairly easily. A bit harsh maybe, but true.

Edit- FWIW I don't believe you have a communication problem. Being a non- bandleading guitar player myself, I have no issue being told stuff a day or so later than the fact, as long as it's not literally the day before the gig or whatever. My singer and drummer (the kids 'in charge') have more to deal with than me and I'm fine with their decisions so why should they need to call me the second anything happens? You were obviously going to tell her, I think your guitar player was trying to make an issue where there isn't one.
Dude, where's my band?
Last edited by TomMon at Dec 10, 2011,
#24
Gary sounds like he's going to be the ruin of any band that he's in.
In any case, I think every band member should be informed of gigs, or cancellation thereof, immediately.
Also Gary needs to stop wearing diapers and grow up, and you should tell him to get his act together or GTFO of the band.
Or maybe just put him on the spot and ask him "tell me right now, yes or no, do you want to be in this band?" and go with what he says.
#25
As I said in another thread "................sometimes running a band is like raising unruly step-children." These are the kids I was referring to. Not by any means saying that THEY are the ones making all the mistakes. Sounds to me as if you could all benifit from some years of experience and dealing with people. No offence intended.
I have also noticed in this forum that there are a lot of people who have the opinion that playing cover music is somehow beneath their artistic level. There are people out there who are not interrested in listening to unfamiliar original music. I respectfully recommend throwing in a popular cover tune or two now and then, to keep your whole audience interrested. The cover tunes, after all, have already "made it", and the original stuff, no matter how good, is still knocking on the door. Just a thought.