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#1
Here is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time.


Let's say the chords are: Am - G - F
Which would be in the key of A minor right?

And if I were to improvise over these chords, let's say am starting the improv on the Am chord. I'd start with either A, C or E note right?

But if I start with the E note, would it be said that I am improvising using the E Phrygian mode? << That's my question.


Thanks,
#3
Kill me now.

Do you or liampje even read the replies to these threads you post? You've both been around here for a while, and you're just not getting it.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Nov 21, 2011,
#4
If you use modes, I will kill you in your sleep.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#5
Hell no

You will only ever be in the E phrygian mode if you are using the notes of the E phrygian scale (E F G A B C D) and the progression or vamp resolved on E.
#6
You said you're playing in Am, therefor you're using Am; there's no mode here.

There's modal music and there's tonal music.

Chances are that you rarely heard an exemple of the former in your life.
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#7
how about instead of giving the guy shit we try give him some answers he can actually benefit from?
#8
Quote by Evangelion 00
how about instead of giving the guy shit we try give him some answers he can actually benefit from?

Naw, FUCK that. Modes are for heathens.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
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#9
Quote by Evangelion 00
how about instead of giving the guy shit we try give him some answers he can actually benefit from?


#10
Quote by MaddMann274
Here is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time.


Let's say the chords are: Am - G - F
Which would be in the key of A minor right?

And if I were to improvise over these chords, let's say am starting the improv on the Am chord. I'd start with either A, C or E note right?

But if I start with the E note, would it be said that I am improvising using the E Phrygian mode? << That's my question.


Thanks,

No. E Locrian, or Fb Lydian Augmented. Try those. They like, just so like, sorta sound like, totally awesome?
#11
Quote by griffRG7321

There it is again. I love it.
Last edited by mdc at Nov 21, 2011,
#12
TS no. Use the search bar for a lengthy discussion we prepared earlier.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#14
Quote by Evangelion 00
Actually I'm not new here

A n00b is always a n00b at heart, no matter how long they've been at it. n00b.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#15
Quote by Xiaoxi
A n00b is always a n00b at heart, no matter how long they've been at it. n00b.


Don't care dude, grow up.
#16
Quote by Evangelion 00
Don't care dude, grow up.

make me, noobybooby

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#17
Quote by MaddMann274
Which would be in the key of A minor right?


there's your answer. i don't care if you start on Bdb and pull some microtonal shit, you're still in A minor until your harmony dictates otherwise.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#18
Quote by griffRG7321
Kill me now.

Do you or liampje even read the replies to these threads you post? You've both been around here for a while, and you're just not getting it.

You mean how modes are only in pre renaisance music, and nowadays you won't find it in a song?
#19
Quote by MaddMann274
Here is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time.


Let's say the chords are: Am - G - F
Which would be in the key of A minor right?

And if I were to improvise over these chords, let's say am starting the improv on the Am chord. I'd start with either A, C or E note right?

But if I start with the E note, would it be said that I am improvising using the E Phrygian mode? << That's my question.

Thanks,


You can start on any note you like. Why do you think you have to start the melody with a note that is found in the harmony?
If you start on the E note and only use the notes E F G A B C D over an Am harmony, you're in A minor and using notes from the A minor scale.

Hell no

You will only ever be in the E phrygian mode if you are using the notes of the E phrygian scale (E F G A B C D) and the progression or vamp resolved on E.


There's more to it than just where the harmony resolves.
#20
Quote by liampje
You mean how modes are only in pre renaisance music, and nowadays you won't find it in a song?

He means precisely that.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#22
Quote by MaddMann274
Here is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time.


Let's say the chords are: Am - G - F
Which would be in the key of A minor right?

right


Quote by MaddMann274

And if I were to improvise over these chords, let's say am starting the improv on the Am chord. I'd start with either A, C or E note right?

You could, but you don't have to.

Quote by MaddMann274

But if I start with the E note, would it be said that I am improvising using the E Phrygian mode? << That's my question.


NO

E F G A B C D E on it's own could be said to be the E Phrygian mode

E F G A B C D E over a chord progression in A minor, is just the A minor scale starting on the 5th note. A is still the tonic.

You always have to consider the entire context. If you lack the foundation to be able to do that, consider spending more time studying functionality and the Major and minor scales. Come back to modes later.
shred is gaudy music
#23
Quote by GuitarMunky
right

You always have to consider the entire context. If you lack the foundation to be able to do that, consider spending more time studying functionality and the Major and minor scales. Come back to modes later.


Although saying this is quite correct, I'm starting to feel like it's pretty much useless... the same people seem to ask it over and over again
#25
Quote by mrkeka
Although saying this is quite correct, I'm starting to feel like it's pretty much useless... the same people seem to ask it over and over again


it's because those same people ignore that advice and keep making the same mistake over and over again. I can only give what I feel is appropriate advice, I can't make people follow it.


Quote by Brainpolice2
This is why I think it's a bad idea to introduce people to modes by showing their technical relativity (rather than parallel relation to) to the major and minor scales. They will likely be confused in this way.



Well, it's not bad, it's incomplete. Learning only the parallel relation would be just as incomplete.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 21, 2011,
#26
Quote by Brainpolice2
This is why I think it's a bad idea to introduce people to modes by showing their technical relativity (rather than parallel relation to) to the major and minor scales. They will likely be confused in this way.

Imo I don't think it's the mode itself. Learning the intervals of a mode, and it's avoid notes n00bs find easy.

It's the harmony associated with it that they don't "get"
Last edited by mdc at Nov 21, 2011,
#27
Quote by mdc
Imo I don't think it's the mode itself. Learning the intervals of a mode, and it's avoid notes n00bs find easy.

It's the harmony associated with it that they don't "get"


I'm under the impression that most people asking questions like the TS wouldn't even be able to identify a key yet.

Other than that, if you use the general internet as a teaching tool, there are a lot of resources which incorrectly lead you down the mode path very very quickly.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#28
Quote by AlanHB
I'm under the impression that most people asking questions like the TS wouldn't even be able to identify a key yet.

Other than that, if you use the general internet as a teaching tool, there are a lot of resources which incorrectly lead you down the mode path very very quickly.


It's mostly cause they look for guitar-specific lessons, and it's just rarely a good idea to learn theory in relation to a certain instrument - it's a universal science, of sorts, and people don't realize that the theoretical and technical aspects of music are fairly separate.

Technique is more based on the performance of a specific instrument, while theory is the more central to the comprehension of sheet music/intervals/harmony/etc. that have absolutely zero impact on the realm of technical cleanliness and speed. It just seems easier to people to cut corners because they feel like they make more significant progress by putting an afternoon into cramming modal shapes into their head rather than the slow, complete, less-choppy route of learning things right.

There would be a lot less of these kinds of threads, I think, if they all took piano for a year and applied the theoretical knowledge to the technical aspects of guitar. Unfortunately, most people just don't have that thought process (including myself) until later down the line when everything finally "clicks" and they slap themselves in the forehead.
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#29
Oh UG, you haven't changed :')
What do you guys listen to when playing video games?
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#31
Quote by MaddMann274
Here is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time.


Let's say the chords are: Am - G - F
Which would be in the key of A minor right?

And if I were to improvise over these chords, let's say am starting the improv on the Am chord. I'd start with either A, C or E note right?

But if I start with the E note, would it be said that I am improvising using the E Phrygian mode? << That's my question.


Thanks,


Can you make the whole melody resolve on the E note of your "mode" and sound correct?

Go try and report back what happened when you played it...did it resolve and feel "finished" and "correct" when stopping on the E note?

Best,

Sean
#32
Well, it's not bad, it's incomplete. Learning only the parallel relation would be just as incomplete.


Sure, it's incomplete, but I also think that if it is one's starting point, it's quite easy to get tempted into the very misunderstandings that wer'e dealing with, such as people presenting what amounts to following the changes of a tonal chord progression as "modal".

If the first thing one learns about modes is something like "if you start on the 2nd note of the C major scale, you can find D dorian", without further sufficient clarification, it's common to confuse fret patterns or positions with modes.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Nov 22, 2011,
#33
Quote by Sean0913
Can you make the whole melody resolve on the E note of your "mode" and sound correct?

Go try and report back what happened when you played it...did it resolve and feel "finished" and "correct" when stopping on the E note?

Best,

Sean


No, it didn't sound "finished".


This was a pretty stupid question, I know. But I am not going to understand if I am just keeping the doubt to myself no?


Thanks everyone (who gave a good answer)
#34
No.
If you used A Dorian however.....
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#35
Quote by seeneyj
No.
If you used A Dorian however.....


Yes what would occur Mr Seeney?
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#36
Quote by seeneyj
No.
If you used A Dorian however.....


i'm curious, too. what would happen?
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#37
Quote by MaddMann274
Here is a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time.


Let's say the chords are: Am - G - F
Which would be in the key of A minor right?

And if I were to improvise over these chords, let's say am starting the improv on the Am chord. I'd start with either A, C or E note right?

But if I start with the E note, would it be said that I am improvising using the E Phrygian mode? << That's my question.


Thanks,

You could start with a crazy outside line of you wanted, and land on E, like this. Csharp, Bb, Gsharp, Fsharp, Eb, then resolve on E. You could milk that E to to add colour to the underlying harmony: Am, G6 Fmaj7
-9p6s4
------7p4-5
-
-
-
-

It still won't be E Phrygian. You could play E allll fucking day mate...

In fact, do the Steve Vai exercise of playing one note for hours, in this case, E. Does it sound like E Phrygian to you....? You can add some vibrato to E if you want during this 5 hr period...
Quote by seeneyj
No.
If you used A Dorian however.....

That's truly beautiful. The F sharp sounds great over F.
Last edited by mdc at Nov 22, 2011,
#38
Quote by AlanHB
Yes what would occur Mr Seeney?


The world would end & we'd all be engulfed by fire.
You want some more seeneyj hate? WELL YOU CAN'T HAVE IT

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1st: Most Likely To Become Famous
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#39
Quote by seeneyj
The world would end & we'd all be engulfed by fire.

Naaaw. The crowd will eat you, and you'd have to shred your way out of trouble...
#40
Quote by Brainpolice2
Sure, it's incomplete, but I also think that if it is one's starting point, it's quite easy to get tempted into the very misunderstandings that wer'e dealing with, such as people presenting what amounts to following the changes of a tonal chord progression as "modal".



The misunderstandings come from a lack of foundation. Using the parallel relationship of modes as a starting point won't solve the problem.


Quote by MaddMann274


Thanks everyone (who gave a good answer)


@ "who gave a good answer"
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 22, 2011,
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