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#1
It really bugs me when people that don't want to bother learning an instrument, or can't sing well, try to write songs. I know music should be for everyone, but I find it stupid when people that just see music as something that's fun to listen to try to write their own songs.

It's selfish, I know, but does it bother anyone else, too?
#2
Not at all. Some of the best song writers and composers weren't great players. Everyone's source of creativity is different. I'd also argue that song writing/composing and playing are two different things. Of course they can go hand in hand but some composers haven't touched an instrument for years, it's all in their head. Which is almost more respectable than someone who needs the crutch of an instrument to do it. I also know plenty of incredible players who've never written a song and can hardly improvise. At the same time, those composers tend to lose touch with the instruments they compose for.
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Nov 21, 2011,
#3
I encourage musicality in everyone. The more people interested in music the better.
I hope my guitar-playing influences others to like Jazz/rock/metal genres and just play an instrument in general.
On playing the Paul Gilbert signature at the guitar store extensively, my missus sighed:
"Put it down now, It's like you love that guitar more than me!"
In Which I replied.
"Well it has got two F-Holes!"
#4
my beef is more with people who cant recognise their weaknesses. like, i know i dont have a very great vocal range, so i sing in the range that im comfortable, and i dont sing songs that i know im going to sound shit at.

and i think i know what you mean with the people who cant play instruments writing songs. i dont think you mean the composter type, more the scene indie hipster emo kid who thinks he's ****in kurt cobain or some shit.
i can understand you hating on that (:
#5
Quote by Doonan

and i think i know what you mean with the people who cant play instruments writing songs. i dont think you mean the composter type, more the scene indie hipster emo kid who thinks he's ****in kurt cobain or some shit.
i can understand you hating on that (:


Yeah, this is more what I'm talking about. They have no interest in actually exploring music, they just listen to it for entertainment and think they write beautiful masterpieces.

If someone can compose without needing any knowledge of instruments, that's fantastic. But when someone thinks listening to The Beatles gives them the right to believe they're an artsy songwriter, that drives me up the wall.
#6
@Doonan, other way round for me, I have the vocal range but can't control it for singing.

I would disagree with the songwriting thing though. Probably becasue I sort of fall under that bracket, but I listen to music which is more based around songwriting than technical skills (Porcupine Tree, Opeth etc...) as opposed to your virtuoso Vais and Satrianis. Knowledge of instruments is going to be helpful but there's no definitie correlation between the two.

EDIT: I would like to point out that I do (try) to play guitar and keyboard - not too shabby with keys actually.
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Last edited by Emperor's Child at Nov 21, 2011,
#7
Firstly i will say i think its totally alrite to be annoyed, but think about it from their point of view.. maybe they arent doing it to actually write a song but more so to get it out.. maybe its a kind of therapy for them and the only way they feel "safe" to get it off their mind

Also, I love to sing, to myself that is, but I dont know if im any good.. what if they dont know either?

they dont annoy me.. I think if they wanna write a song, write a song.. i dont have to like it and i certainly dont have to listen to it ! :P

Maybe they want to get into music but they dont know how? or they dont feel good enough?..

All im really saying is, try to look at it in another way or from their point of view, you might be surprised
#8
Yeah, I feels ya. There's a girl in my theory class who has zero experience and interest in music, and she still tries to acts like she's the next Elton John or some shit.
"For me it's important to be in balance. To not let fear get in the way of things, to not worry so much about protecting yourself all the time."

"Muskrats live in my wah wah pedal."

-John Frusciante-
#9
Essentially we're hating on people who act knowledgable but are actually totally ignorant. Yes that drives me insane.
On playing the Paul Gilbert signature at the guitar store extensively, my missus sighed:
"Put it down now, It's like you love that guitar more than me!"
In Which I replied.
"Well it has got two F-Holes!"
#11
Wow, think its a bit ignorant to assume just because you can play an instrument means you can dictate what others do to enjoy music.

You sound like you think your better than them because of it, just because you went and learnt an instrument means you have more right to music than anybody else.

I bet there's tons of amazing lyricists out there who cant play any instrument or sing, but are brilliant writers.

Put it this way. I like football, I like watching football.

And even though I'm not very good at football (pretty terrible if im honest) I'll be damned if someone like you thinks I'm not entitled to have a kick about and pretend I'm the next superstar. If thats what I enjoy doing.

I think if this annoys you and if you have an issue with people wanting to write or express themselves then the problem is 100% yours.

There is no exam or pass level you must take to say your now allowed/eligible to try writing music.

To be honest your moronic and arrogant point of view actually contradicts the entire purpose of the songwriting and lyrics forum, a place where anyone who wants to try and write can come and get valuable feedback and advice.
Last edited by FrontmanShields at Nov 30, 2011,
#12
Its alright if you dont play an instrument but understand music theory. Its alright if you can barely play. But when you have no idea at all-Why try? Its a recipe for disaster
#13
Often I'm a little more the other direction. I want to hear more people play and sing, and dance, stomp on the ground, whatever they can do. I sometimes get annoyed when, I'm playing at a party or something, and I can't find enough fellow musicians around. I find this to be a far more troubling problem then bad singers or whatever.

I realize this is not exactly what you are talking about, and yes I've walked outside for "a smoke" on more than one occasion at an open mic. I'm only human.
"Pain or damage don't end the world nor despair, nor fuckin' beatings. The world ends when you're dead, until then you have more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."
#14
Quote by a_bad_curry
Its alright if you dont play an instrument but understand music theory. Its alright if you can barely play. But when you have no idea at all-Why try? Its a recipe for disaster


It's not a recipe for disaster at all. It's fun, therapeutic, good for the soul. You don't have to play and instrument or understand how to. Every now and then I'll have my friends and some of their friends over to my studio. I've got a drum set, all kinds of hand percussion, some amps and guitars and basses, harmonicas, slide whistles, all kinds of music making devices. They have a hell of a time sitting around banging on drums and playing the instruments and everyone leaves in a good mood. We have an innate desire for music, trying to take that away from someone because they don't have inborn skill or haven't spent the time to learn an instrument is silly. Try having a little more compassion rather than hating them.

On the other hand (there's always an other hand) we all know that kid who thinks he's the next John Lennon and lets EVERYONE know, though his work is mediocre.
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
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#16
Just tell them they're a poet, not a songwriter, and I guarantee they'll stop trying to write music
#17
"Well I could have been a famous singer
If I had someone else's voice
But failure's always sounded better
Let's **** it up boys, make some noise"

.

"And ambition, I've found
Can lead only to failure
I do not read the reviews...
No, I am not singing for you"
#19
I started getting interested in songwriting as I was learning the guitar. so naturally I couldn't actually put music to my stuff since I only knew like, Sunshine of Your Love or something.

quit hatin', more bacon.
#20
I write songs and i wana make a channel on youtube, so im looking for anyone that plays guitar or piano :3
#21
Quote by TextOnTheScreen
It really bugs me when people that don't want to bother learning an instrument, or can't sing well, try to write songs. I know music should be for everyone, but I find it stupid when people that just see music as something that's fun to listen to try to write their own songs.

It's selfish, I know, but does it bother anyone else, too?


I think I get ya, man. I mean, I get annoyed when I've put tons of time, effort, and poetry in a song and then see some d-bag slamming two power chords with far too much vigor singing bluntly about some bitch.

I guess I hate when someone calls a P.O.S. a 'song', while my painstakingly formed piece worked for the title of 'song'.
"This nightmare's gonna break me.
Please, Daylight, save me..."
#22
It just means that their music will not be as good as it could be.

Should you waste mental energy on this? Not really...

What offends you about this the fact that people are enjoying themselves? Aren't you enjoying yourself? If you're not enjoying it, why are you doing it?
#23
Quote by Nameless742
Essentially we're hating on people who act knowledgable but are actually totally ignorant. Yes that drives me insane.


^ This. And people that fail to be humble at any level.
#24
Quote by DaysofGrace
I think I get ya, man. I mean, I get annoyed when I've put tons of time, effort, and poetry in a song and then see some d-bag slamming two power chords with far too much vigor singing bluntly about some bitch.

I guess I hate when someone calls a P.O.S. a 'song', while my painstakingly formed piece worked for the title of 'song'.


What you actually mean is that you're jealous that the simple song they wrote is getting more attention than your pretentious drivel.
#25
Quote by KidCanary
What you actually mean is that you're jealous that the simple song they wrote is getting more attention than your pretentious drivel.


That is exactly correct.
"This nightmare's gonna break me.
Please, Daylight, save me..."
#26
I'm not sure that you have to be a great actor to be a great playwright, for example, although it can of course help. At the same time, there are things which you could do instead of practicing acting which could just as much contribute towards writing plays, and really it would seem that what's more important is understanding of and familiarity with the medium rather than playing an instrument per se. Playing an instrument is one way towards that goal, but not necessarily the only way.

In either case, though, a songwriter is generally going to end up writing parts for instruments which are not their own, at least if they're the primary songwriter for a band. Certainly, a classical composer often wasn't a master of most of the instruments in an orchestra. Ultimately this will come down to a holistic understanding of music, rather than simply of a particular instrument and its own function.

Of course, you're probably right about it often being artistically problematic when people who view music as simply peripheral entertainment write songs; that said, though, it's possible that songwriting forms a way into a deeper understanding of and engagement with music for these people, although that may not manifest if, for example, they find themselves in a community which encourages contentment with their current standpoint, and don't have the personality to be dissatisfied with this, etc. Nonetheless, being technically skilled with an instrument doesn't guarantee satisfactory development in this aspect of things, and I'm sure that many of us guitarists are still having to work to understand the art of songwriting and how music works.
But when all Space has been beheld
And all Dominion shown
The smallest Human Heart's extent
Reduces it to none.
#27
I think honestly people like simple. When you put so much thought and poetry into a song, its hard for someone to remember. You may love your work, and if the person listening or reading actually took the time to sit and hear the words and the poetry in it, they may be more interested. But a song should be simple and easy to relate to. That is just my two cents, for whatever its worth.
#28
Still no mention of dylan?
I agree some folks just appear cocky and write lousy songs, but I believe songwriting and tehnical skills are two different planes. You can be a god at one, and a noob at the other.
Or you can be DiMeola
Good old Pete. Isn't he too old to masturbate? - Pete Townshend
Don't mind your make-up, you better make your mind up. - Frank Zappa
#29
Quote by TextOnTheScreen
Yeah, this is more what I'm talking about. They have no interest in actually exploring music, they just listen to it for entertainment and think they write beautiful masterpieces.

If someone can compose without needing any knowledge of instruments, that's fantastic. But when someone thinks listening to The Beatles gives them the right to believe they're an artsy songwriter, that drives me up the wall.


In your first paragraph, you described Kanye West perfectly.

ron666
#30
Quote by ron666
In your first paragraph, you described Kanye West perfectly.

ron666


In your first sentence you marked yourself as pathetically ignorant.
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
#31
Quote by Artemis Entreri
In your first sentence you marked yourself as pathetically ignorant.


Really? You say "my first sentence," which automatically assumes that I wrote more than one sentence, right? But if you care to look more carefully at my posting, it consists of only one sentence and nothing more.

Hmmm, pathetically ignorant, eh?

ron666
#32
Quote by FrontmanShields
Wow, think its a bit ignorant to assume just because you can play an instrument means you can dictate what others do to enjoy music.

You sound like you think your better than them because of it, just because you went and learnt an instrument means you have more right to music than anybody else.

I bet there's tons of amazing lyricists out there who cant play any instrument or sing, but are brilliant writers.

Put it this way. I like football, I like watching football.

And even though I'm not very good at football (pretty terrible if im honest) I'll be damned if someone like you thinks I'm not entitled to have a kick about and pretend I'm the next superstar. If thats what I enjoy doing.

I think if this annoys you and if you have an issue with people wanting to write or express themselves then the problem is 100% yours.

There is no exam or pass level you must take to say your now allowed/eligible to try writing music.

To be honest your moronic and arrogant point of view actually contradicts the entire purpose of the songwriting and lyrics forum, a place where anyone who wants to try and write can come and get valuable feedback and advice.


^ this 100%
#33
I have a friend who as far as I can tell doesn't seem to play any instruments, and I've never actually heard him sing, but he can write some damn good lyrics.
#34
So I'm not the best musician. Actually I cant really play any instrument, and can barely carry a tune. But I love to write, I write stories, and I write heap of poetry all the time. I thought I'd try my hand at song writing. But came across this...and now really don't want to :/
#35
Before I learned to play my instrument the songs I wrote were not songs, they were poems. once I started playing the guitar they became songs.
#36
It doesn't bother me for people to write songs if they feel they need to do it. If you got a song inside you, and it wants out, by all means write it. Like someone else said, they may be writing for therapy. Maybe they're just writing for themselves and have no plan for other people to listen to them.

That said, I would encourage anyone to continue improving their musicianship if theyre sincere about making music. If you want to play songs you've written, and you can't sing or play and instrument, now's a great time to learn. If you can do those things, how can you do them better? Always keep learning, always keep improving.
#37
Quote by emma1289
So I'm not the best musician. Actually I cant really play any instrument, and can barely carry a tune. But I love to write, I write stories, and I write heap of poetry all the time. I thought I'd try my hand at song writing. But came across this...and now really don't want to :/


No! See what's happening? This thread is discouraging to anyone who's out there trying to write music but may not have a solid singing voice. a.k.a. 99% of us as I'm sure we've all experienced that moment when we've said "do I really sound like that?". I agree 100% that there should be a certain degree of humbleness when presenting work or performing, but I disagree 100% that people who are not good at writing music should just stop trying. Everyone's going to start from somewhere, right? We should encourage improvement and learning. If everyone had the mindset that "if you're not good, you should just stop", then we'd have NO good music at all, because who here can raise their hands and honestly say that when they started writing lyrics, that their first songs were so good that they'd present it to Elton John and expect a record deal in return. NO WAY! Everyone starts somewhere, and if that inspiration comes from a really bad song, so be it. If this certain someone is a genius with lyrics, but can't touch an instrument without breaking it, so be it. If this person is neither a genius with lyrics, and can't touch an instrument without breaking it, but still is happy by writing song lyrics, who is anyone here to say "no, you can't do what makes you happy", when really it's not hurting anyone else apart from their eardrums and their pride.
Last edited by yamahaducky8910 at Jul 1, 2014,
#38
Quote by emma1289
So I'm not the best musician. Actually I cant really play any instrument, and can barely carry a tune. But I love to write, I write stories, and I write heap of poetry all the time. I thought I'd try my hand at song writing. But came across this...and now really don't want to :/


Don't let this thread discourage you. Every songwriter starts somewhere. When I look back at stuff I wrote in high school, ah, some of it is kinda cringeworthy. Now, after majoring in theater and music, I can write a Kyrie where the vocal part divides into 12 lines. Do you want to hear me to sing one of the soprano parts? Yeah. Do you want to hear a competent pianist play it? Yeah. Do you want to hear me play it? Hell no. Everyone is going to have their strengths and weaknesses. Figure out where your strengths are and play to them. The only way to do that is to try. Will there be some trainwrecks along the way? Sure, but the further along the path you get, the good material will outweigh the less good. Why less good instead of bad? It's like compost. Something good can come from it. Yucky looking compost nurtures new growth in the garden. A good idea can lurk in yucky old writing, waiting for the technical maturity to do it justice.
Brevity is the soul of lingerie.
-Dorothy Parker
#39
music is from the soul it is not written but more less something that has always existed that has been discovered if you look at it like that none of it is bad it is just at your discretion what you like or don't like because that shitty songs already exist ya dig
Wise man once said, " If you ever get lost in the woods, just start jacking off someone will see you."
#40
TextOnTheScreen Okay I'm not sure if it's really my place to say anything as I'm a fairly good Guitar player and I can sing (in my opinion) quite well but I feel like I should say something. One of my very favorite songwriters can't carry a tune but her songs are some of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. My best friend can't sing and just started playing piano about a month ago but he writes amazing songs. You don't have to have any musical talent to write songs. There are many amazing songwriters that write songs and have people who can sing and play instruments sing it for them. You can make a career of writing songs for different artists or bands.
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