#1
Hello! I get troubled by some songs because all of their chords except one fit on a scale. Here's an example: the song "Stop crying your heart out" from Oasis goes like this:

Bm
Hold on
D/A
Hold on
E7
Don't be scared
G
You'll never change what’s been and gone

This is apparently the key of A. It's a ii - IV - V - ?. The G major chord doesn't fit the scale, it should be diminished, in which case it would be ii - IV - V - VII.

The song, however, doesn't sound out of tune. This is puzzling me, I've asked several folks on forums around and nobody has come to a plausible answer yet. Can somebody help me figure this out?
#2
In the key of A, G Major is a partial diatonic chord, so thats why it works there
#3
Pretty much every single song ever written borrows chords from other keys. You don't have to have all your chords fit diatonically in a single key. It sounds good, so they played it. It's as simple as that.

Edit:
If you want to break down the G major chord into notes, it's G B D.
Two of those notes are diatonic to the key of A major.
Last edited by stratdax at Nov 22, 2011,
#5
The G chord is acting like a secondary dominant, even though it's a major chord. The notes in G are G B D, it resolves to the Bm which is B D F#. The half step movement from G to F# creates the resolution in a similar way, but not exactly the same, as a dominant chord would.
#6
It's in B Minor.

i - bIIIc - IV7 - bVI

S'all diatonic bro. The E7 is harmonized off the 4th degree of B Melodic Minor.
Last edited by mdc at Nov 22, 2011,
#7
That makes more sense than it being in A, although I'd like to see the melody, and any more chords, but does the switch to the melodic minor in the E7 chord still make it diatonic?
#8
Quote by mr-curley
That makes more sense than it being in A, although I'd like to see the melody, and any more chords, but does the switch to the melodic minor in the E7 chord still make it diatonic?

Strictly speaking no. I believe that the term "diatonic" refers to scale more so than key no?
#9
I think this song is better analyzed in D major (very clear in the chorus).

It's true that it briefly flirts with the V (A major) with that E7, but I would treat this as just a secondary dominant.

That makes the Bm just a regular vi chord, and the G is now just a vanilla IV chord.

It's actually all pretty diatonic.

This is a pretty good analysis of the song in Roman numerals with the music assuming D major:

http://www.hooktheory.com/analysis/view/oasis/stop-crying-your-heart-out
#10
Quote by mdc
It's in B Minor.

i - bIIIc - IV7 - bVI


I agree it's in Bm, however the roman numerals are written incorrectly, you base them off the notes in the minor scale rather than the parallel major when using roman numeral notation.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#11
Quote by mdc
It's in B Minor.

i - bIIIc - IV7 - bVI

S'all diatonic bro. The E7 is harmonized off the 4th degree of B Melodic Minor.



Missed this post by mdc. Obviously one can also analyze this in the relative minor. Pop music switches back and forth between the two so often that it's usually easier to just stay in the major mode though.

But I second his analysis.
#12
Quote by jimmykguitar
Missed this post by mdc. Obviously one can also analyze this in the relative minor. Pop music switches back and forth between the two so often that it's usually easier to just stay in the major mode though.

But I second his analysis.

I initially thought it was in B Minor as I only listened to the part of the song that the TS talked about in the OP.

Having listened to thw whole song now I agree that it does move in to D Major tonality for the majority of it.
Quote by AlanHB
I agree it's in Bm, however the roman numerals are written incorrectly, you base them off the notes in the minor scale rather than the parallel major when using roman numeral notation.

I've seen conflicting information in theory books. Namely classical vs jazz theory books. i prefer to do it this way because the roman numerals match the scale degrees.

Also, you can then distinguish between a bVImaj7 chord in Natural or Harmonic Minor, and a vim7b5 in Melodic Minor for example.
#13
Quote by mdc

I've seen conflicting information in theory books. Namely classical vs jazz theory books. i prefer to do it this way because the roman numerals match the scale degrees.

Also, you can then distinguish between a bVImaj7 chord in Natural or Harmonic Minor, and a vim7b5 in Melodic Minor for example.


I'd be interested to see what book that came out of, it's not the popular method and would cause some confusion when describing roman numeral notation to a fellow musician (like myself).

As for the latter, harmonic and melodic minor aren't keys so I fail to to the relevance.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#14
I always base them off the minor scale. And the melodic and harmonic minor may not be keys but you can still harmonise them and create chords.
#15
@AlanI should've said "from" said scale rather than "in". I meant scale, not key.
#16
Quote by mdc
@AlanI should've said "from" said scale rather than "in". I meant scale, not key.


But isn't the roman numeral form used to describe chords in relation to a key? That's the primary advantage.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#17
Quote by AlanHB
But isn't the roman numeral form used to describe chords in relation to a key? That's the primary advantage.

Yes, I know what you're saying, and certainly it'd be more beneficial in a jam situation where one shouts out the progression "i - VI - ii - V in "x minor".

Sure. But when it comes to written analysis, I prefer this way.
#18
Quote by mdc
Yes, I know what you're saying, and certainly it'd be more beneficial in a jam situation where one shouts out the progression "i - VI - ii - V in "x minor".

Sure. But when it comes to written analysis, I prefer this way.


No worries. Party on
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud