#1
Hi

I dont have a song structure in mind, i have 2 chord progressions and i would like to know if they can be used for a song and how.

1st progression: A - F pretty simple

2nd progression: Dm - G - Dm - G - Dm - G- F - C - Dm

The first progression is in the key of A major (i think) but since F is a chord from A minor i think i can use the major scale of a to make a melody and use an F scale while the F chord is sounding

The 2nd is in D minor (i think) except for G, which is supposed to be a G minor (i think)

Any tips or suggestions? or scales to use? thanks
#2
2nd progression is in C ii V ii V ii V IV I iv

Or you could call it a progression in D Dorian but our ears will hear it as being in the key of C. Especially since you have a C chord in there. Without that, it may be a more clear cut decision to call it Dm
#3
2nd progression could be said to be built out of C major chords... but you're making D the tonic. D dorian?

As for the first progression, I do like how the A and F sound when played after each other.

When it comes to songwriting, anything could be used (essentially). It's all subjective, and if you like how something sounds, then use it.

You could technically connect the first and second progressions through the fact that F major and D minor are related...

D minor is the vi chord of F major.

Maybe bridge the two with a C or C7 chord?

Sorry, just kinda throwing things out there.
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#4
No modes guys!

For the first I'd play A major over the A chord, A minor over the F.

For the second D minor over everything, D dorian over the G.

Note that the A minor scale in the key of A and D dorian in the key of D minor are not key changes or modes, they're accidentals employed to the parent scale.
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#5
Yeah I just realized 2nd progression could be D dorian, however it kinda sounds more like a D minor progression to me. I mean, theres just one chord (G major) thats is not from D minor but I think it sounds pretty good. Maybe Dorian and Minor scales could be used over that progression for a solo. Any more ideas?
#6
Quote by AlanHB
No modes guys!

For the first I'd play A major over the A chord, A minor over the F.

For the second D minor over everything, D dorian over the G.

Note that the A minor scale in the key of A and D dorian in the key of D minor are not key changes or modes, they're accidentals employed to the parent scale.



Now im confused. 1st one is in a major right? the f major is a modal interchange ( i think ) from A minor (?)

And the 2nd one, Dm-G-F-C ...looks D dorian to me, I mean those chords are from C. However, i think that D minor (eolian) will work too, since all the chords , except for G, are from D minor/ F major. However G major is a chord from D major, so , its another modal interchange, like the 1st


So, the 1st one, i would use A major scale and F major scales for a melody/solo
And the 2 nd one, i think D dorian, D minor would work, I mean, the only difference between both scales is the 6th. So, maybe i can make a solo or a melody that alternates between d dorian and d minor. Or maybe i can use D minor pentatonic. Not sure about this tough
Last edited by WhenStarsDie at Nov 26, 2011,
#7
A song in a mode is different from a mode in a key. When a progression is in a key, you can use whatever chords you want, and they resolve firmly to a major/minor chord. This is what is happening in both chord progressions.

Quote by WhenStarsDie
Now im confused. 1st one is in a major right? the f major is a modal interchange ( i think ) from A minor (?)


Modal interchange, I'm not a fan of the term. But the chord is borrowed from the parallel minor. You use accidentals to avoid clashes with the F chord.

Quote by WhenStarsDie
And the 2nd one, Dm-G-F-C ...looks D dorian to me, I mean those chords are from C. However, i think that D minor (eolian) will work too, since all the chords , except for G, are from D minor/ F major. However G major is a chord from D major, so , its another modal interchange, like the 1st


Same answer. Add accidentals.


Quote by WhenStarsDie
So, the 1st one, i would use A major scale and F major scales for a melody/solo
And the 2 nd one, i think D dorian, D minor would work, I mean, the only difference between both scales is the 6th. So, maybe i can make a solo or a melody that alternates between d dorian and d minor. Or maybe i can use D minor pentatonic. Not sure about this tough


Your concern is that the A major or D minor scales will create clashes with those specific chords. I'm giving you the solution. Accidentals. You're not changing key or going to a mode, in both progressions the keys stay the same.
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#8
Ok , What I understood from ur post is that

1st is in the key of A major
2nd is in D minor with some modal interchanges (C - D) and that it isnt in D dorian

And "accidentals" i dont know whats that, are u reffering to "notes in common" between 2 different scales?

However, I dont know why it can be D dorian, since all the chords are from C major but the progression resolves to D minor.
#9
Quote by WhenStarsDie
Ok , What I understood from ur post is that

1st is in the key of A major
2nd is in D minor with some modal interchanges (C - D) and that it isnt in D dorian

And "accidentals" i dont know whats that, are u reffering to "notes in common" between 2 different scales?


"Accidentals" are any notes not diatonic to the key. So if I played an F in the key of D major, that would be an accidental. It doesn't change the key. In this case you had a G chord in the key of D minor. I added an accidental B to accommodate for the clash as B is in the G chord but not in the key of D minor. That's all that's happening.

Quote by WhenStarsDie
However, I dont know why it can be D dorian, since all the chords are from C major but the progression resolves to D minor.


Modes are a different form of tonality than keys, there's a lot of stuff in the sticky above. I can assure you that that progression, and 99.999% of songs are not in modes. You as noted before the B accidental makes the D minor scale share the same notes as the D dorian scale, which is why I said D dorian. However the progression itself is not in D dorian, it's in D minor.
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#10
Quote by AlanHB
"Accidentals" are any notes not diatonic to the key. So if I played an F in the key of D major, that would be an accidental. It doesn't change the key. In this case you had a G chord in the key of D minor. I added an accidental B to accommodate for the clash as B is in the G chord but not in the key of D minor. That's all that's happening.


Modes are a different form of tonality than keys, there's a lot of stuff in the sticky above. I can assure you that that progression, and 99.999% of songs are not in modes. You as noted before the B accidental makes the D minor scale share the same notes as the D dorian scale, which is why I said D dorian. However the progression itself is not in D dorian, it's in D minor.



Ok i read this in the sticky you told me: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187159

And it says that a progression that starts and resolves in Eminor and has the same chord as C is E phrygian. So, Dm-G-F-C-Dm would be D dorian. I dont wanna be boring but im dont understand this, also my guitar teacher taught me that modes could be use in a progression, for example F lydian, same chords as C major, but starts and resolves in F. So if we have a progression like this: F-G-C and you play F lydian (and you need to emphasize that #4) you will sound lydian. For example , as far as i know, And i love her by the beatles is in F# dorian(same chords as E major, and they emphazise that 6th specially in the intro) . The other way is to change scales as chords change. like playing G mixo over G7 and switching to D phrygian over a D minor chord (just an example) so im really confused now.

Thanks
#11
Quote by WhenStarsDie
Ok i read this in the sticky you told me: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187159

And it says that a progression that starts and resolves in Eminor and has the same chord as C is E phrygian. So, Dm-G-F-C-Dm would be D dorian. I dont wanna be boring but im dont understand this, also my guitar teacher taught me that modes could be use in a progression, for example F lydian, same chords as C major, but starts and resolves in F. So if we have a progression like this: F-G-C and you play F lydian (and you need to emphasize that #4) you will sound lydian. For example , as far as i know, And i love her by the beatles is in F# dorian(same chords as E major, and they emphazise that 6th specially in the intro) . The other way is to change scales as chords change. like playing G mixo over G7 and switching to D phrygian over a D minor chord (just an example) so im really confused now.

Thanks


I don't see where in that article it says that. But your guitar teacher is leading you astray. Why you would introduce modes to a student whom doesn't have a firm grasp on the concept of "accidentals" (if any knowledge at all) is beyond me.

F - G - C is a progression in C major. On passing glance the Beatles song is in F# minor. Neither are modal progressions.

I'm not going to start up another modes thread, you can use the searchbar for that or read the rest of the modes stickies. However I'll riddle you this, if these songs were all in modes, what would the need be for modal interchange? The chord would already be in the mode.
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#12
Alan, you know my opinion on you is you're pretty much on the ball when it comes to knowing your stuff, but I dont see how the moment you invoke the G its going to sound like it will feel resolved on Dm.

Can you tell me how he's gonna do it. I see the Progression in C especially after you throw that G - it's hijacked.

What's your take? Mine is, just because you end the chord as a Dm doesn't mean it's going to feel "complete" there. In fact Id argue that it would take a gargantuan effort to make it seem finished there.

What do you think?

Best,

Sean
#13
Quote by Sean0913
Alan, you know my opinion on you is you're pretty much on the ball when it comes to knowing your stuff, but I dont see how the moment you invoke the G its going to sound like it will feel resolved on Dm.

Can you tell me how he's gonna do it. I see the Progression in C especially after you throw that G - it's hijacked.

What's your take? Mine is, just because you end the chord as a Dm doesn't mean it's going to feel "complete" there. In fact Id argue that it would take a gargantuan effort to make it seem finished there.

What do you think?

Best,

Sean



So, the 2nd progression is in C major , not in D minor or D dorian..?

Btw to alan, maybe i dont know what "accidentals" are because it has another name in spanish ( i only speak spanish ) but maybe i know them. Not sure though. However my teacher only taught me a little about modes, like an introduction but then we started just to practice, excercises, technique.

So, what scales to use for this song?
#14
Quote by WhenStarsDie
Hi

I dont have a song structure in mind, i have 2 chord progressions and i would like to know if they can be used for a song and how.

1st progression: A - F pretty simple

2nd progression: Dm - G - Dm - G - Dm - G- F - C - Dm

The first progression is in the key of A major (i think) but since F is a chord from A minor i think i can use the major scale of a to make a melody and use an F scale while the F chord is sounding

The 2nd is in D minor (i think) except for G, which is supposed to be a G minor (i think)

Any tips or suggestions? or scales to use? thanks


1st progression: A - F = A Major (I - bVI)

solo using A Major over A and A minor over F
minor pentatonic or minor blues over both sounds good as well

2nd progression: Dm - G - Dm - G - Dm - G - F - C - Dm = C Major

^ = ii - V - ii - V - ii - V - IV - I - ii

I would suggested getting rid of the extra measure at the end. don't try to force the key.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Nov 27, 2011,