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#1
So I am in the process of putting together an effects/processing rack for my guitar.

Here is the thing....

I'm in a band that has 2 guitarists and our levels seem to always fluctuate (not in a good way). We've been playing more gigs lately and are tryin to step up our sound quality. Thus far I have picked up a Sonic Maximizer 482i and I plan on picking up some sort of noise reduction/compressor/limiter sorta thing to help our levels.

The question here is: Can we use a single rack for 2 guitarists? ie. Both of us go into separate mono channels of the Maximizer...

I have tried researching this and havent been able to come up with any answers on the subject, or even if other bands have tried it.
Last edited by devoneater at Nov 29, 2011,
#2
Only if you both want to sound exactly the same at all times. When you change amp channels do you want the other guitarist's channel to change too? When he kicks in an effect do you always want the same effect at the same time? Didn't think so.
Get your shit together and learn how to work as a team - that's the real answer.
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#3
Quote by Cathbard
Only if you both want to sound exactly the same at all times. When you change amp channels do you want the other guitarist's channel to change too? When he kicks in an effect do you always want the same effect at the same time? Didn't think so.
Get your shit together and learn how to work as a team - that's the real answer.



good advice, but we will still be running out of different amps and using different pedals, so there will be no chance of us sounding the same. All I am doing is looking to add clarity and tone to our sound with a few simple racks and then going out of the rack into our own amps.

but the question wasn't if we'd sound alike..

it was, can you use one rack for 2 guitars.
#4
I have all my guitars plugged into my rack but I never play them at the same time. I don't understand what you are saying about all in the same rack but using different amps. That just doesn't make sense.
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Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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#5
Quote by Cathbard
I have all my guitars plugged into my rack but I never play them at the same time. I don't understand what you are saying about all in the same rack but using different amps. That just doesn't make sense.



not 2 guitars, 2 guitarists..
#6
I know, that's what doesn't make sense. How are you expecting to share a rack while using different amps?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#7
Quote by devoneater
not 2 guitars, 2 guitarists..

If you've got 2 guitarists, you're gonna have 2 guitars going into the same rack.
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#8
there are 2 channels in the Sonic maximizer, both of which have an input and an output. My theory is that I can go in channel A, and the other guitarist could go in Channel B. Then I go out of channel A into my amp, and the other guitarist goes out of channel B into his amp. I just don't know of anyone who has done that and was curious if anyone had tried. If so, could it could be problematic?
#9
Quote by kaosxrocker
If you've got 2 guitarists, you're gonna have 2 guitars going into the same rack.

#10
Sure you can do that but how is that going to solve your balance problem? You'll still have to adjust the volumes on your amps.
You need to get your shit together as a band, technology is not going to save you. This is a human issue, not a technological one.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#11
Quote by Cathbard
Sure you can do that but how is that going to solve your balance problem? You'll still have to adjust the volumes on your amps.
You need to get your shit together as a band, technology is not going to save you. This is a human issue, not a technological one.


lol, the sonic maximizer will do absolutely nothing for our levels! Whatever compressor/limiter/noise reduction rack I decide to get will though! It's not about just letting technology do all the work for us, it is about letting the advancements in technology help FINE TUNE a particular sound ya 'ol fart haha. We know how to set levels. It's as easy as: You are too loud? turn down... You are too quiet? turn up!

thanks for the feedback, though unhelpful, it still is appreciated
#12
Fluctuating levels? Are all of your effects and etc. set to unity gain? Have you both taken careful measures in EQing your tones and effects so that, for instance, kicking in an overdrive pedal doesn't wrap the EQ so bad that it sounds louder or quieter than it really is?
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#13
Pretty sure the reason his advice isn't being helpful is because you don't know what the hell you want. In your first post, you complain about fluctuating levels. Now you're saying you want to "fine tune a particular sound." You aren't going to be able to do that until you address the base problem, which would be the fluctuations. You can have the best rack in the world, and you'd never be able to fine tune a sound if you don't have a sound to begin with.
Kodiak bears make awesome bandmates.

Quote by wolvenrick
no seriously 7x NGD is epicness i declare you the winner of all NGD's on UG never have i seen this xD
#14
Quote by muso_catolico
Fluctuating levels? Are all of your effects and etc. set to unity gain? Have you both taken careful measures in EQing your tones and effects so that, for instance, kicking in an overdrive pedal doesn't wrap the EQ so bad that it sounds louder or quieter than it really is?



Yea, but we do a lot of clean tapping while the other guitarist does a heavier clean strum and it goes back and forth between the two of us. If either of us strummed softer so you could here the tap, then it would kill the effect of the song, and you can only tap so loud. We've considered just investing in volume pedals, but I though a single compressor might just do the trick.
#15
The goal posts keep moving.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#16
Quote by kaosxrocker
Pretty sure the reason his advice isn't being helpful is because you don't know what the hell you want. In your first post, you complain about fluctuating levels. Now you're saying you want to "fine tune a particular sound." You aren't going to be able to do that until you address the base problem, which would be the fluctuations. You can have the best rack in the world, and you'd never be able to fine tune a sound if you don't have a sound to begin with.



The desired sounds have been accomplished, and never was there a question of, "How do we improve our levels?" I know exactly what I want. I gave the context of my problem, in which I already have a solution lined up for. I just was wondering if it was standard for 2 guitarists to share a rack that has 2 separate channels.
#17
First of all, in many cases a 'rack' is an amp. Most guitarists that use a rack have an amp in their rack. That's the cause of Cath's confusion from the beginning. I can tell you mean an effects only rack, which you should have stated.

Second, what Cath is trying to explain is that a rackmounted effect designed to adjust your levels (like a compressor) won't do anything with two seperate signals going to two seperate amps. You could have one amp on '1' and the other on '10' for all the rack effect knows, how could it compensate for that?
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BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#18
The Sonic Maximizer has to be the most overrated piece a' shit among uneducated musicians, ever. I'm sad to hear you already picked one up before coming here, else you could've saved a hundred bucks.

Now, to answer your question, judging by the first few pictures that come up when you Google the unit, it has two channels (channel A, channel B), thus suggesting it does indeed do stereo processing. Personally I don't think it's a good idea to use a Sonic Maximizer at all, especially not in a live setting on two guitars. You might as well kick your bassist because he's not going to be heard anyway.

A noise gate almost never hurts live, check out the Decimator G-string, been hearing a lot of good things about that unit. A compressor is redundant on distorted guitars except for leads, limiter is out of the question. You guys are overthinking it, you need to go back to the basics and get shit right at the source (appropriate and good guitars, pickups, amps and settings, cabinets) rather than throwing 500 different rack effects at the problem.
Last edited by Ascendant at Nov 29, 2011,
#19
Quote by devoneater
there are 2 channels in the Sonic maximizer, both of which have an input and an output. My theory is that I can go in channel A, and the other guitarist could go in Channel B. Then I go out of channel A into my amp, and the other guitarist goes out of channel B into his amp.


I don't see what it'd hurt, meaning it's not gonna set anything on fire...

Try it.. let us know how it works...
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#20
Quote by tubetime86
First of all, in many cases a 'rack' is an amp. Most guitarists that use a rack have an amp in their rack. That's the cause of Cath's confusion from the beginning. I can tell you mean an effects only rack, which you should have stated.

Second, what Cath is trying to explain is that a rackmounted effect designed to adjust your levels (like a compressor) won't do anything with two seperate signals going to two seperate amps. You could have one amp on '1' and the other on '10' for all the rack effect knows, how could it compensate for that?



wouldn't a compressor help bring up the volume for a quiet-er tap riff while the other guitarist is playing a heavier clean strum? i know the levels on the amp itself would be unaffected, but my goal is to be able to have a clean tap and have the levels still be equal. when we are playing riffs where we are both using distortion/heavy strumming/etc the levels are fine, it's just when the tapping starts it can be too quiet. So my logic was to pick up a compressor that, if the settings were right, help bring up the levels. not quite sure if it will really help, but i will try it.

on the other hand, i did buy a sonic maximizer (which is amazing if you haven't tried one) which does wonders to a clean tone. it's truly magical! now i wanted to know if 2 guitarists can plug into that single sonic maximizer (2-channel) or if it would be more efficient to buy a second one.. logically i feel just one sonic maximizer should be fine, but considering the difficulties i have been having finding ppl that share one, i didn't know if it was problematic.
#21
Quote by devoneater
wouldn't a compressor help bring up the volume for a quiet-er tap riff while the other guitarist is playing a heavier clean strum? i know the levels on the amp itself would be unaffected, but my goal is to be able to have a clean tap and have the levels still be equal. when we are playing riffs where we are both using distortion/heavy strumming/etc the levels are fine, it's just when the tapping starts it can be too quiet. So my logic was to pick up a compressor that, if the settings were right, help bring up the levels. not quite sure if it will really help, but i will try it.


This is why you get a compressor pedal and put it first in your signal chain after the guitar, and activate it when said tapping lick starts. That, or you could practice more and get your technique right so a pedal won't have to fix your inability to play guitar for you. Yeah sorry for sounding like a douche but it's the truth unless your amp settings are bad (mids at 0 for example) or you have a crappy amp that doesn't cut through in a live setting (ie Engl powerball among others).
Last edited by Ascendant at Nov 29, 2011,
#22
Quote by Ascendant
The Sonic Maximizer has to be the most overrated piece a' shit among uneducated musicians, ever. I'm sad to hear you already picked one up before coming here, else you could've saved a hundred bucks.

Now, to answer your question, judging by the first few pictures that come up when you Google the unit, it has two channels (channel A, channel B), thus suggesting it does indeed do stereo processing. Personally I don't think it's a good idea to use a Sonic Maximizer at all, especially not in a live setting on two guitars. You might as well kick your bassist because he's not going to be heard anyway.

A noise gate almost never hurts live, check out the Decimator G-string, been hearing a lot of good things about that unit. A compressor is redundant on distorted guitars except for leads, limiter is out of the question. You guys are overthinking it, you need to go back to the basics and get shit right at the source (appropriate and good guitars, pickups, amps and settings, cabinets) rather than throwing 500 different rack effects at the problem.


thanks! I'll check out that noise gate!

we are using an orange 4x12 with mesa triple rectifier and a b52 4x12 with b52 tube head. both playin gibsons (les paul and SG)
#23
Quote by Ascendant
This is why you get a compressor pedal and put it first in your signal chain after the guitar, and activate it when said tapping lick starts. That, or you could practice more and get your technique right so a pedal won't have to fix your inability to play guitar for you. Yeah sorry for sounding like a douche but it's the truth unless your amp settings are bad (mids at 0 for example) or you have a crappy amp that doesn't cut through in a live setting (ie Engl powerball among others).


you can only tap a clean riff so loud b4 it starts sounding too rough :P, and we have a decent rig.

maybe a pedal could be the best bet, i was just gonna try a rack so i didn't have to expand my pedal board anymore haha..

thanks for the feedback.
Last edited by devoneater at Nov 29, 2011,
#24
Quote by devoneater
wouldn't a compressor help bring up the volume for a quiet-er tap riff while the other guitarist is playing a heavier clean strum? i know the levels on the amp itself would be unaffected, but my goal is to be able to have a clean tap and have the levels still be equal. when we are playing riffs where we are both using distortion/heavy strumming/etc the levels are fine, it's just when the tapping starts it can be too quiet. So my logic was to pick up a compressor that, if the settings were right, help bring up the levels. not quite sure if it will really help, but i will try it.

yes, a compressor on your guitar would help in that situation. but putting both guitars through the same effect isn't going to fix that, more likely it will do the complete opposite. you can't just whack 2 guitars through a compressor and expect it to mix them for you.
#25
Quote by korinaflyingv
yes, a compressor on your guitar would help in that situation. but putting both guitars through the same effect isn't going to fix that, more likely it will do the complete opposite. you can't just whack 2 guitars through a compressor and expect it to mix them for you.


what if it was a 2-channel compresser with separate controls for each channel?
#26
Quote by devoneater
what if it was a 2-channel compresser with separate controls for each channel?

that would mean it would be less likely to do the complete opposite of what you want. but the heavy strumming would lose some of its impact with compression, it would be redundant to apply it to both guitars, and would probably create more problems than it would solve. it would make SO much more sense for you to both buy individual rigs where you can alter your volume on the fly, however you choose to accomplish that. you have a brain, a rack does not. use that to your advantage instead of trying to automate everything.
#27
Quote by korinaflyingv
that would mean it would be less likely to do the complete opposite of what you want. but the heavy strumming would lose some of its impact with compression, it would be redundant to apply it to both guitars, and would probably create more problems than it would solve. it would make SO much more sense for you to both buy individual rigs where you can alter your volume on the fly, however you choose to accomplish that. you have a brain, a rack does not. use that to your advantage instead of trying to automate everything.



noted. thanks man, much appreciated.
#28
Quote by devoneater
wouldn't a compressor help bring up the volume for a quiet-er tap riff while the other guitarist is playing a heavier clean strum? i know the levels on the amp itself would be unaffected, but my goal is to be able to have a clean tap and have the levels still be equal. when we are playing riffs where we are both using distortion/heavy strumming/etc the levels are fine, it's just when the tapping starts it can be too quiet. So my logic was to pick up a compressor that, if the settings were right, help bring up the levels. not quite sure if it will really help, but i will try it.

on the other hand, i did buy a sonic maximizer (which is amazing if you haven't tried one) which does wonders to a clean tone. it's truly magical! now i wanted to know if 2 guitarists can plug into that single sonic maximizer (2-channel) or if it would be more efficient to buy a second one.. logically i feel just one sonic maximizer should be fine, but considering the difficulties i have been having finding ppl that share one, i didn't know if it was problematic.

I think you're misunderstanding what a compressor does. It brings all the dynamics of your playing together. So it will make your quietest tap just as loud as your loudest... But that will do nothing to bring the overall volume level up for the tapped parts and it will do nothing to bring down the second guitarist's parts.

Maybe you just need a clean boost or a volume pedal for each so you have a 'rhythm' level then kick on a boost for the 'tapping' level.

BBE Sonic Maximizers are literally up for debate as to whether or not they do anything at all. Don't start the 'they're magical!' stuff in here.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#29
after going through this thread i have to ? your EQing abilities. seems like you and your other guitar player need distinctively different rhythm and lead tones that sit in the mix together and don't step on each other. the other thing is that you are using similar guitars maybe one of you playing a guitar that isn't mahogany with different pickups would help.
#31
just buy an overdrive pedal or clean boost and use it to boost your volume when the tapping part comes in during the song.

just as if you were using it as a solo boost or simply to help leads cut through the mix a little better.

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#32
Quote by tubetime86
I think you're misunderstanding what a compressor does. It brings all the dynamics of your playing together. So it will make your quietest tap just as loud as your loudest... But that will do nothing to bring the overall volume level up for the tapped parts and it will do nothing to bring down the second guitarist's parts.

Maybe you just need a clean boost or a volume pedal for each so you have a 'rhythm' level then kick on a boost for the 'tapping' level.

BBE Sonic Maximizers are literally up for debate as to whether or not they do anything at all. Don't start the 'they're magical!' stuff in here.


This.

Plus this:

Quote by monwobobbo
after going through this thread i have to ? your EQing abilities. seems like you and your other guitar player need distinctively different rhythm and lead tones that sit in the mix together and don't step on each other. the other thing is that you are using similar guitars maybe one of you playing a guitar that isn't mahogany with different pickups would help.



A compressor is unlikely to do what you want. I think the real solution here is better EQ'ing of both amps, and setting levels better.
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#34
Thanks for the replies that were relevant and helpful! (though very few) Thanks to the peeps who actually tried understanding and giving input!

AND FOR ALL U GUYS WHO JUST PLAY IN YOUR HOUSE and have that condescending, cocky attitude and live to go on forums and talk mad shit, have fun with ur music career


rock on rockers!
Last edited by devoneater at Nov 29, 2011,
#35
Quote by devoneater
Thanks for the replies that were relevant and helpful! (though very few) Thanks to the peeps who actually tried understanding and giving input!

AND FOR ALL U GUYS WHO JUST PLAY IN YOUR HOUSE and have that condescending, cocky attitude and live to go on forums and talk mad shit, have fun with ur music career


rock on rockers!


not sure which catagory i fall in but many of the guys with "attitudes" are well respected and knowledgeable. you did a poor job of explaining what you you wanted. honestly you seemed like a cheapskate that couldn't afford his own gear. just because advice isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it wrong.

oh and since you haven't demonstrated any playing ability you might want to think twice about calling some of us out.
Last edited by monwobobbo at Nov 29, 2011,
#36
Quote by monwobobbo
not sure which catagory i fall in but many of the guys with "attitudes" are well respected and knowledgeable. you did a poor job of explaining what you you wanted. honestly you seemed like a cheapskate that couldn't afford his own gear. just because advice isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it wrong.

oh and since you haven't demonstrated any playing ability you might want to think twice about calling some of us out.



i didn't know that "well respected" individuals would have such "well respected" attitudes haha

Funny thing is, the only question i had was if it was feasible to have 2 guitarists plug into the same effects rack, rather than having separate ones.

Instead the feedback I got from these "well respected" people was that I: don't know what i am talking about, that i need to get my shit together, that i don't know what the hell i want, that i use pedals to fix my inability to play guitar, that i have questionable EQ'ing abilities.

i can appreciate tough love, but only from those who deserve to give it and make a valid point, not just stray from the point and talk poo..

whatever the case, better a response than none at all.
#37
After reading through the whole thread, I'm going to have to agree that a couple rack effects won't solve this problem. TBH, it sounds like you guys are having more of a problem with your dynamics in your playing than a mixing/volume problem. Your rhythm guitarists sounds like he needs to work on how to play heavy without playing loud (a problem many new drummers have). The good thing is that this issue can be worked on in practice for free .

As for the rack questions, I honestly don't know. I do know that some rack effects may allow for 2 guitars to be played simultaneously through them, but doing so will cause a drop in volume. Since you already purchased the sonic maximizer, just try running it how you asked at your next practice to see if it will work for you.
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#38
Quote by devoneater
Thanks for the replies that were relevant and helpful! (though very few) Thanks to the peeps who actually tried understanding and giving input!

AND FOR ALL U GUYS WHO JUST PLAY IN YOUR HOUSE and have that condescending, cocky attitude and live to go on forums and talk mad shit, have fun with ur music career


rock on rockers!



and that makes us want to help you more???

honestly your musical career isn't doing better than a lot of ours because quite a few of us know how to EQ two amps, and sound decent live without issues like that. yea i may be "condescending and cocky" as you have stated, think what you will, but

you have never heard many of us play. hell i haven't uploaded anything in over a year, because i needed a recording setup.
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