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#1
Dave Weiner recently announced that his "Riff of the Week" guitar lessons are no longer going to be free, but will continue as a subscription-based service.
For those who are unfamiliar, he has been making short video guitar lessons every wednesday for the past 6 years. He is a teacher at MI and plays rhythm guitar in Steve Vai's band, so his lessons are of a very high standard, especially compared to the average youtuber.
And yet, most of his audience are calling him a sell out, demanding he keep doing it for free, as if he owes them something.

A lot of people of our generation seem to have this sense of entitlement towards music and entertainment. Thanks to torrents, everything is very easy to get for free. Anyone who dares charge money for their work is regarded as greedy. You might say you still buy music, but for every person that bought an album, there's probably a dozen who torrented the whole discography.

Has music completely lost its monetary value?
Will there ever be a time when artists will be able to sell their music without being regarded as greedy?
#2
Musicians aren't greedy. Music isn't a given. People torrent, and people don't like it when free stuff is taken away from them.

Inb4 generic piracy argument.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#4
Ofcourse music still has a value. But obviously you increase your overall welfare by deciding not to pay for it. If that wasn't possible to do, we would still pay for cd's etc.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#5
lol Weiner

somebody will make his contributions available for free anyways, it's irrelevant. Knowledge isn't something that should be restricted (and in a way music could be considered knowledge, especially in this format), and the internet in its current state allows this to truly come into fruition.
Last edited by Thrashtastic15 at Nov 29, 2011,
#6
All I know is that if it's on the internet somewhere ready to be downloaded, I'm "borrowing" it.

I'll pay to listen to them live but it's just how music is nowadays and I'm ok with it. Sure you may say "if you don't support the artist, they might not be able to make more of the music you like." Thankfully there's a replay button.

When you decide to make music a career, don't expect to be promised anything.
#7
Quote by sashki
Will there ever be a time when artists will be able to sell their music without being regarded as greedy?

I thought that time was already here. Has it passed?

I personally only believe he's a sellout if he preached a message against selling music and then started selling it when people were willing to buy. Otherwise, more power to him.

You're only a sellout if you drop your beliefs for cash.
#8
Quote by Thrashtastic15
lol Weiner

somebody will make his contributions available for free anyways, it's irrelevant. Knowledge isn't something that should be restricted (and in a way music could be considered knowledge, especially in this format), and the internet in its current state allows this to truly come into fruition.

What about teaching? Even if you believe that knowledge shouldn't be restricted, you're overlooking the effort that goes into sharing and explaining this knowledge to others. That is a skill that few people master.
#9
The commercialization of music and other forms of entertainment impedes progress because what is popular will always take precedence over what is revolutionary. Ideally music should be made and distributed freely for music's sake, but realistically that will never happen on a large scale. As it is the people doing truly creative things are marginalized on the whole because their product will not appeal to a broad market.
Last edited by RU Experienced? at Nov 29, 2011,
#10
This is why I love the underground dance music scene (no I'm not a hipster). Everyone tries to support one another by buying their music, playing out their tunes, playing them on the radio, promoting them in their blog etc. Illegally downloading music is basically frowned upon on one of the forums I frequent and most people are broke because they are constantly buying new vinyl releases and trying to keep the scene alive. Massive contrast compared to all the people here who happily admit to illegally downloading music (nothing against them, I've downloaded my fair share of music).
I think it really just shows who's actually really passionate about the music they love. If you are really passionate about the music you love you will buy your music and support the bands you love.
#11
Quote by sashki
What about teaching? Even if you believe that knowledge shouldn't be restricted, you're overlooking the effort that goes into sharing and explaining this knowledge to others. That is a skill that few people master.

Then maybe these awesome teachers should share the knowledge they have gained over the years on how to teach effectively so more can do so. Restricting knowledge on a monetary basis isn't something I believe in and as a result I will continue my practices of obtaining the knowledge without paying a price. If someone has a problem with that, I couldn't give any less of a shit.
#12
Quote by Duffman123
I think it really just shows who's actually really passionate about the music they love. If you are really passionate about the music you love you will buy your music and support the bands you love.

You're gonna get so much shit for this.
#14
Quote by genghisgandhi
You're gonna get so much shit for this.

I don't care it's the truth.

And please no one give me the whole "hurrr but all the money goes to the record label, I do support them, I bought one of their t-shirts once".
#15
Quote by Duffman123
I think it really just shows who's actually really passionate about the music they love. If you are really passionate about the music you love you will buy your music and support the bands you love.

All the artists I like are dead so they won't know the difference.
#16
You can't put a price on music or knowledge.

You put a price on the effort involved in learning, perfecting, teaching, explaining, performing, production and commercial release of said music, especially in physical formats.
#17
Quote by Duffman123
I don't care it's the truth.

And please no one give me the whole "hurrr but all the money goes to the record label, I do support them, I bought one of their t-shirts once".

Well actually I won't tell you that. I get songs/albums I really love listening to and I don't care who made it. Sometimes the name of the band/song is only important for finding the music faster.
#18
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Then maybe these awesome teachers should share the knowledge they have gained over the years on how to teach effectively so more can do so. Restricting knowledge on a monetary basis isn't something I believe in and as a result I will continue my practices of obtaining the knowledge without paying a price. If someone has a problem with that, I couldn't give any less of a shit.

You seem to be under the impression that all teachers will withhold knowledge for the sake of monetary gain.

Teaching takes time and effort, like any other job. Why do they not deserve to be paid?
A teacher gives you access to knowledge. The only way they can restrict it is by refusing to do their job.

This can be extended to other things. Think of the work that goes into writing a textbook. Should they be free? Think of all the academic researchers who spend years on a single project. Their goal is to gain new knowledge and share it with the world. Should they not be paid? They have bills to pay, yo.

You seem to have that sense of entitlement that I mentioned in my first post, not that you give a shit.
Quote by Duffman123
I don't care it's the truth.

And please no one give me the whole "hurrr but all the money goes to the record label, I do support them, I bought one of their t-shirts once".

Actually, in some cases, a band gets a larger share of the merchandise profits than the record profits. There are fewer people involved in making a shirt than a record.
Last edited by sashki at Nov 29, 2011,
#20
its basically saying a musicians time is not worth anything . or anything
anyone else produces that is down loadable .

and NO knowledge isn't free someone pays for it somewhere like (parents and taxes )
(just not you) the same with

music they have to pay to record but there again (not you) but it will cost someone
something eventually . it even cost servers to have this stuff ready to download
but again ( not you ) it wont last forever someone will fall

and you will go with them because then you will do without !!!!!!! or pay for it
Last edited by 951 at Nov 29, 2011,
#21
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Then maybe these awesome teachers should share the knowledge they have gained over the years on how to teach effectively so more can do so. Restricting knowledge on a monetary basis isn't something I believe in and as a result I will continue my practices of obtaining the knowledge without paying a price. If someone has a problem with that, I couldn't give any less of a shit.

You can do that, just not from Steve Vai's rhythm player any longer.
#22
Quote by sashki
Actually, in some cases, a band gets a larger share of the merchandise profits than the record profits. There are fewer people involved in making a shirt than a record.

I mean it in the sense they they feel they are entitled to download a bands whole discography for free just because they bought a £5 t-shirt with their name on it.
#23
Let me put it this way, for all ambiguities to be cleared: You either believe in [intellectual] property or you don't.

I don't believe in [intellectual] property.

The [text] notation indicates that text can be omitted or included, as per the reader's opinion.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#24
Quote by 951
its basically saying a musicians time is not worth anything . or anything
anyone else produces that is down loadable .

and NO knowledge isn't free someone pays for it somewhere like (parents and taxes )
(just not you) the same with

music they have to pay to record but there again (not you) but it will cost someone
something eventually . it even cost servers to have this stuff ready to download
but again ( not you ) it wont last forever someone will fall

and you will go with them because then you will do without !!!!!!! or pay for it


good point , you said will fall scary thought
#25
I didn't read the op. But I had a thought yesterday. Think of all the amazing classical music we have. I don't think we will ever have a wave of music that has such high standards. I'm not saying we won't have musicians that are as talented, we have Tosin, and btbam but they don't quite match up in my head

Edit
Ok now that iv read the op....
Il compare it to classical music again. I purchased all of Beethoven s symphonies on cd for only 5 dollars. That has more value to me than most cds on sale, cds on sale for 15 bucks. Music is subjective, yes, but the way I see it, do you think your art is worth more than, twice as much as Beethovens? I know music isn't free to make, there's time and money involved in production. Bach(lol) n the day I'm sure it wasn't free to hire orchestras, they all have to get paid. They all had to buy their instruments too. Of course there was no contained portable way of listening to not live music. So album sales were nonexistent. I think people trying to make money off of music is getting in the way. I'm sure a cd would sell for 5 bucks if the artist was selling it. But that won't happen.

People thinking they're entitled to music is a slightly different story.... I have nothin.g to say on that subject actually.... Damn greedy people lol
Last edited by jrcsgtpeppers at Nov 29, 2011,
#27
I think anyone who calls a musician greedy for wanting to get paid for his work is an idiot. It's a privilege to have had those lessons. There's no entitlement. Before the internet you would have had to pay for them anyway.
If Rock is a life-style, then Metal's an addiction

Yelloooow!


Of The


UG Challenge

#28
the greed part to me is when a musicians starts creating music they think people will buy and not creating music they feel like they should whether it sells or not .
which is what got me listening to them in the first place .

no one ever said a musician or anyone shouldn't make money for there product .
Last edited by 951 at Nov 29, 2011,
#30
Quote by TheReverend724
I give all of my music away for free because I like it when people enjoy the stuff I make, that's good enough for me

yes, if i was a famous musician, id give away my music for free, in an official album download, and make donations to charity, like omar rodriguez does sometimes. in my opinion selling your music is like charging someone to look at your painting. you made it as art, not as retail. you can charge people to view or listen to your art in a live performance, because thats different. you can sell merch but selling albums is kinda stupid nowadays. its just gonna get downloaded illegally.
#31
Quote by TheReverend724
I give all of my music away for free because I like it when people enjoy the stuff I make, that's good enough for me


^^^yea well wait till someone offers you a 100k and then try to make the same song a different way so you can get another 100k . just saying getting greedy is easy
#33
Quote by Duffman123
This is why I love the underground dance music scene (no I'm not a hipster). Everyone tries to support one another by buying their music, playing out their tunes, playing them on the radio, promoting them in their blog etc. Illegally downloading music is basically frowned upon on one of the forums I frequent and most people are broke because they are constantly buying new vinyl releases and trying to keep the scene alive. Massive contrast compared to all the people here who happily admit to illegally downloading music (nothing against them, I've downloaded my fair share of music).
I think it really just shows who's actually really passionate about the music they love. If you are really passionate about the music you love you will buy your music and support the bands you love.


Mind sharing the forums? It'd be interesting to check out and find some new music.
#34
Culture and information aren't things that should be arbitrarily assigned a price. If you disagree, fuck you.
#35
Quote by genghisgandhi
due's online. Abort thread



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You look like a young Eugene Levy, but with a moustache.

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When they're down is the safest time.

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Sharks Stanley Cup 16-17,,,,?
#36
Quote by due 07
Culture and information aren't things that should be arbitrarily assigned a price. If you disagree, fuck you.

What are you talking about Due? This thread is about a video with a cat in a dress. There is no discussion about information sharing in here.

<.<
>.>
#37
Quote by Duffman123
I think it really just shows who's actually really passionate about the music they love. If you are really passionate about the music you love you will buy your music and support the bands you love.

I agree. Here's why:
1. Rich people obviously have a greater capacity for passion of music than their poor counterparts.
2. Money is obviously the only way to support bands.
#38
new thought. music should be free. if there were no consumers for music....
thats my point exactly. the idea of paying for music is just stupid. what are you gonna do if no one wants to buy your music? stop making music? good, if thats your reason to make music then no one should buy your music. nobody should have to pay their hard earned money to listen to my musical ideas, they arent that special.
#39
Holy shit Genghis, you were just in time to abort the thread. Due came in like a minute later.

Quote by due 07
I agree. Here's why:
1. Rich people obviously have a greater capacity for passion of music than their poor counterparts.
2. Money is obviously the only way to support bands.


Dude, money is the only way to support bands. You're right.
Quote by DonGlover

You look like a young Eugene Levy, but with a moustache.

Quote by slapsymcdougal
Quote by Dreadnought
Kicking a man when he's down, I'm proud of you

When they're down is the safest time.

Soundcloud
Sharks Stanley Cup 15-16
Sharks Stanley Cup 16-17,,,,?
#40
Quote by SlayingDragons
Mind sharing the forums? It'd be interesting to check out and find some new music.

Dogs on acid. That's just a guess though.
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