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#1
Clickity

I am one to agree with this theory.

I believe that sex offenders in the U.S. are being handled ineptly under the assumption that a sexual preference-- or orientation-- is something which can be unlearned.


What does The Pit think?
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#2
So?

No matter how you paint it, taking advantage of children is wrong. Sexual orientation or not.
I am not debating whether or not it is a sexual orientation, though. For the most part, I guess it makes sense, I just don't care either way.
Last edited by blake1221 at Nov 30, 2011,
#3
There are guys who commit offenses against children who are not pedophiles.


Stopped reading right there lol.
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#4
The psychologist in the article is referring to the idea of considering Paedophiles* (defined as those who are not child molesters nor come under the clinical definition of Paedophile) as a sexual orientation. That's fair enough, to be honest we never see those people and they can't (by definition) cause any harm.
This is distinct from the two other groups, Child Molesters which is what the majority of people think when they hear "Paedophile"; and Paedophiles as a group of people suffering from the paraphelia "Paedophilia", which is what most psychologists think when they hear "Paedophile".

This is extremely uncontroversial.


Child Molestation is obviously wrong (for the purposes of this discussion).
Paedophiles suffering from the disorder are different, they are people who are disturbed (in a tangible way) by their disorder or who have acted upon it. Those people need and deserve help, because unlike Homosexuals they cannot simply be convinced that they should express their sexuality normally.
The group that this man is talking about, hypothetical paedophiles (who certainly exist) who are sexually attracted to children but are never going to act on it and who aren't disturbed by it, already don't need our help or generally seek it out.
They do require understanding though, but that's a lot to ask of most people on what is a very emotional issue.
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Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Nov 30, 2011,
#6
It's a perversion, a gross sexual deviation from the norm. They know it's wrong, they still do it.
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#7
Well, orientation is theorised to be due to biochemical factors and predispositions of various forms (which can be influenced by environmental factors); this could be applied to more specific orientations, though I have always thought of it as a fetish, as some paedophiles can be attracted to adults, too, and the article would cause such individuals to be bisexual.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
The psychologist in the article is referring to the idea of considering Paedophiles* (defined as those who are not child molesters nor come under the clinical definition of Paedophile) as a sexual orientation. That's fair enough, to be honest we never see those people and they can't (by definition) cause any harm.
This is distinct from the two other groups, Child Molesters which is what the majority of people think when they hear "Paedophile"; and Paedophiles as a group of people suffering from the paraphelia "Paedophilia", which is what most psychologists think when they hear "Paedophile".

This is extremely uncontroversial.
Also this.
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Last edited by Banjocal at Nov 30, 2011,
#9
It's a perversion, a gross sexual deviation from the norm. They know it's wrong, they still do it.


The 'norm' is only set in place by society. We're conditioned to think this way; I'm not saying it's ok (far from it), but it's only deviation because of where we relate it in terms of our own views.
#10
that can be said about any fetish, so as long as they don't act on it, then its their problem and i don't care.
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#11
Quote by BeefWellington
It's a perversion, a gross sexual deviation from the norm. They know it's wrong, they still do it.


It takes a good amount of deception to rape a child.
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#12
Oh great, not this again.


Im sure after your child is molested you'll still be sooooo compassionate for pedophiles.
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#13
And there's differing variants on paedophilia. Say, a 50 year old guy has feelings for a 14 year old girl. He's not a paedophile. He's something else, which I can't remember the name for
#15
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
And there's differing variants on paedophilia. Say, a 50 year old guy has feelings for a 14 year old girl. He's not a paedophile. He's something else, which I can't remember the name for
A "dirty old man?"
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#16
Makes sense. The pedophile is the guy who really likes money but the child molester is the one who goes ahead and robs the bank, you could say.
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#17
Quote by BeefWellington
It's a perversion, a gross sexual deviation from the norm. They know it's wrong, they still do it.



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#18
Quote by BeefWellington
It's a perversion, a gross sexual deviation from the norm. They know it's wrong, they still do it.

In this case, the individuals being talked about here, they don't do it at all because they know it's wrong.

Child Molester is to Paedophile as Rapist is to Heterosexual.
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
And there's differing variants on paedophilia. Say, a 50 year old guy has feelings for a 14 year old girl. He's not a paedophile. He's something else, which I can't remember the name for

Hebephile, bordering on Ephebophile depending on the level of development.
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Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Nov 30, 2011,
#19
I'm under the assumption that pedophilia is not any more a "choice" as homosexuality is, so if people get off on children then it's not something we can change. All we can do is try to make sure they don't act on their feelings, because unlike homosexuals, children do not have a sexual orientation and should not be engaging in sex acts, never mind their physical and mental vulnerability.
#20
This theory doesn't change anything. At all. I've never seen something be so unchanged by a new thought before, that's how little this changes anything.
#21
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
And there's differing variants on paedophilia. Say, a 50 year old guy has feelings for a 14 year old girl. He's not a paedophile. He's something else, which I can't remember the name for



PETER PAN Syndrome?
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#22
Dont' do the crime, if you're not prepared to do the time.
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#23
I've read the article in it's entirety, and would like to say that I agree I suppose. It makes sense, as someone has already commented in the link, it's like homosexuality in the sense that it can't be cured.

It isn't in any way condoning paedophilia or saying that it's okay, just trying better to understand the situation the people are in and how is best to help them.
#24
Quote by Ur all $h1t

Hebephile, bordering on Ephebophile depending on the level of development.

No no, that's when you have a fetish for Jews.
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#25
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Child Molester is to Paedophile as Rapist is to Heterosexual.
Hebephile, bordering on Ephebophile depending on the level of development.


That's it.

For me, you can be a paedophile and be really depressed about it. Those are the people that need the most help, the ones that are born into this sexual preference that they would never act on. Easily a preface for depression.

But sexual predators, they can fuck off and die.

Also, the article is right. It's possible to be a child sex offender and not be a paedophile, as some people are just twisted opportunists.
#26
this is one of the hardest topics in our society to have any sort of discussion on. People shut down, and possibly rightfully so, when the topic of pedophilia is brought up. It is a social construct that is nearly impossible to criticize because one immediately comes off, in the minds of many, as a sympathy for child molestation. I am not in favor of child molestation but I do believe in the thesis of the article. Pedophilia, to me, is caused by a myriad of social factors. This is in the same way that heterosexuality is caused by the signalling of our society to the individual of what he/she should and should not be. Pedophilia is not perversion in a vacuum, it is perversion in a specific cultural context. In that way it is similar to any other sexual orientation.

The possible effect of this sexual orientation, that being the molestation of children, is not something I would ever defend however.

I do appreciate you bringing this discussion to the pit though TS
#27
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#28
Quote by Ur all $h1t
In this case, the individuals being talked about here, they don't do it at all because they know it's wrong.

Child Molester is to Paedophile as Rapist is to Heterosexual.


Exactly.
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#30
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
That's it.

For me, you can be a paedophile and be really depressed about it. Those are the people that need the most help, the ones that are born into this sexual preference that they would never act on. Easily a preface for depression.

But sexual predators, they can fuck off and die.

Also, the article is right. It's possible to be a child sex offender and not be a paedophile, as some people are just twisted opportunists.


Is anyone born a pedophile, though? I was under the impression that pedophilia is almost always caused by childhood sexual trauma of some kind. Which makes it all the more tragic for those who actually have a conscience and refuse to act on their urges. Those people definitely need help.
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#31
Quote by teachmeviolence
Is anyone born a pedophile, though? I was under the impression that pedophilia is almost always caused by childhood sexual trauma of some kind. Which makes it all the more tragic for those who actually have a conscience and refuse to act on their urges. Those people definitely need help.


That's same as asking 'is anyone born a homosexual?'
#32
It can be a sex orientation, nothing so unbelievable here. Nothing wrong with it, if they control it, it's a condition, as you said. However, molesting is of course not acceptable.
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#33
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
That's same as asking 'is anyone born a homosexual?'



And might we recall how well attempting to "rehabilitate" homosexuality went? Groups like Exodus International claiming that homosexuality is a choice, etc, etc.

Would it not be safe to assume that "rehabilitation" for pedophilia would be equally ineffective?

Then what?

One cannot condone Child Molestation, but is it right-- apologies for use of that word-- to allow people to simply fester in their secrets for their entire life?
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Last edited by Red33 at Nov 30, 2011,
#34
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
That's same as asking 'is anyone born a homosexual?'


No it's not, there's no evidence that homosexuality is caused by sexual trauma and plenty of evidence that homosexuals are in fact born that way. A good amount of people who molest children, on the other hand, were molested themselves as children. I don't know the statistics on that, however, so I'm not making any conclusions. I just don't think it's fair to compare pedophilia to homosexuality, since it seems like there's evidence to suggest pedophilia is an actual disorder.
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#35
Quote by teachmeviolence
No it's not, there's no evidence that homosexuality is caused by sexual trauma and plenty of evidence that homosexuals are in fact born that way. A good amount of people who molest children, on the other hand, were molested themselves as children. I don't know the statistics on that, however, so I'm not making any conclusions. I just don't think it's fair to compare pedophilia to homosexuality, since it seems like there's evidence to suggest pedophilia is an actual disorder.


I'm not on about child molesters. I'm on about paedophiles. Completely different entities.
#36
Quote by Red33
And might we recall how well attempting to "rehabilitate" homosexuality went? Groups like Exodus International claiming that homosexuality is a choice, etc, etc.

Would it not be safe to assume that "rehabilitation" for pedophilia would be equally ineffective?

Then what?

One cannot condone Child Molestation, but is it right-- apologies for use of that word-- to allow people to simply fester in their secrets for their entire life?

The idea is that trying to make them not attracted to children would be pointless, but trying to give them the tools to not molest kids would be useful.
The approaches are very different.
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#38
Quote by Ur all $h1t
The idea is that trying to make them not attracted to children would be pointless, but trying to give them the tools to not molest kids would be useful.
The approaches are very different.


So something like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? Increasing self awareness and such?
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#39
It's not against the law to be attracted to children. It is, however, illegal to sexually abuse them, or do anything to which the child cannot legally consent.
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#40
It is understandably unnerving to harbor the truth that someone, somewhere, is going to be sexually attracted your well-underage son or daughter, but a person who has that particular sexual orientation and does not act on it is no more "wrong" than a heterosexual man who, while sexually attracted to your 20 year old sister, does not rape her or who does not act sexually inappropriate in other ways.

If you want a fair and equal society, that includes dealing with people, orientations, and beliefs that you may find unnerving, creepy, weird, etc. Get over it.
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