#1
-----Skip to post #25 on page 2 for most recent recording update-----


Hi all just looking for some feedback on my recording.

I am trying to improve my overall recording sound and have tried a few things people have suggested in previous threads as well as in other forums.

Here is a list of the things I did when recording this song:


Bass and drums are MIDI, bass was put through a VST. Drums were put through Drumkit From Hell. I took out the volume on the room mic.

Guitar parts were recorded with an SM57, a Peavey 6505+ combo and a Schecter C-1 Hellraiser. Pedals active were an Ibanez TS9DX Tube Screamer, Boss GE-7 EQ and a Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor.

I recorded 4 guitar tracks (2 left and 2 right) and panned them 100%.

I added a compressor to the drums.

The EQ I added for the guitar tracks was as follows: 100hz low shelf, 250hz thin bandwidth boost of 6db, 5khz very thin bandwidth boost of 9db, 17khz high shelf.

I added a high shelf at 6khz on the bass.


I've attached a screenshot of the guitar eq, and the recording (Raining Blood by Slayer). I was not trying to mimic Slayer's tone or anything, I just wanted to pick a song I knew well that I hadn't recorded yet.


Any feedback welcome, let me know if I have done anything horrifically wrong. I hope not because I think the mix is among the best I have done, but I am sure there is more I can do to improve.

Thanks!



http://www.mediafire.com/?s2ftt9wzftk2sul
Last edited by Random3 at Dec 4, 2011,
#2
I typically use a samson condenser mic paired with an SM57 for micing the guitar. I almost never have the condenser in the same place twice, but normally like it somewhere above and behind the amp (pointing towards the back of it). I believe it gets a full sound and encompasses everything good that you're trying to get out of your 6505+. Just a suggestion, a somewhat expensive one at that.
and harry doesn't mind if he doesn't make the scene
#4
Turn the cymbols down, when it gets to the beginning of the verse it just sounds like a wall of noise and its hard to hear what the guitars are playing... and thats all I have for now
Gear
Guitars-
Paul Reed Smith SE Custom
Paul Reed Smith Mike Mushok Baritone
Squire Bullet
Carlos Acoustic
Epiphone Banjo
Amps-
Mesa Boogie DC-5
B-52 LS-100 and Matching cab
and tons of miscellaneous stuff
#5
I wouldn't bother quad tracking with the same amp; nor would I pan all the guitar takes 100% L/R. The point of quad tracking is to make a bigger, thicker guitar tone so the panning is usually something like 100/80, or 100/75. Right now each side just sounds phasey/chorusy.

Your EQ is also a bit extreme. It's best to get your tone as close to you want it without having to do so much EQing. If you do need to eq it's always better to make wider-Q boosts and higher-Q cuts. That boost at 5khz is adding a really unnatural and bothersome metallic-like ring. 5150/5153/6505's are also all pretty fizzy amps, you can swap that high shelf to a low pass and bring it down to 8-10khz to make more room for cymbals.

Other things in the mix: the guitars are too loud and bury the drums. Either the guitar needs to come down or you need to bring up the snare, kick, and toms. DFH is super thin without a lot of processing. I'd suggest a boost on the fundamentals of the snare and a corresponding cut on the bass to accompany that.
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#7
Ok here's an update:

I've turned up the volumes of the kick, snare and toms slightly.

I've tweaked the eq on the guitar tracks as suggested.

I changed the panning from 100% each way to 100% left, 75% left, 75% right and 100% right.

I turned down each guitar track by 1db.

Definately sounds crunchier, see what you think.

Really appreciate the help guys

http://www.mediafire.com/?z2pg4h2zejadxit

Last edited by Random3 at Dec 2, 2011,
#8
It's definitely heading in the right direction! The kick still lacks any punch and has that cardboard dfh sound, I'd try a big scoop in the mids, then a boost down at the fundamental (probably like 65hz on that kick) and then a cut at the bass again at 65hz to let that thud cut through). Still can't really hear the toms, either.
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#10
In Reaper, click FX on the DFH track, the right click on DFH in the left hand pane and select build multichannel routing for select FX and it will split up all the different mics to their own tracks, then you open up the DFH mixer and change the outputs to multichannel.
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#13
Damn that's annoying.

The version of Cubase I am using (LE4) does not support multichannelling.

I think I know a way around it though. I'll try cutting out each drum hit and exporting it as an audio file, then I can mix them as if they are audio files.
Last edited by Random3 at Dec 2, 2011,
#14
If you've got a decent computer you could probably just run 4 instances of DFH, one for kick, snare, toms, then OH.
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#16
Cool another update:

I applied different EQs to the different drum tracks:

Kick:


Snare:


Overheads:


And I decreased the volume of all guitar tracks by a couple of db.

For some reason the Audacity file looks like this which is very uneven




http://www.mediafire.com/?oj7g832lbb3x93u
#17
Why on earth are you boosting so narrowly for? And let alone boosting at all. The less EQing you can get away with the better. There's a general rule for what sounds good when EQing and that is to boost wide and cut narrow, sounds more natural that way. Another good rule to follow is that it's better to cut than to boost to get where you want, if you can get away with that. If an instrument isn't cutting through the mix, rather than boosting a bunch of frequencies it's often a better idea to have a listen to other elements and see if you can cut something out of them to make more room in the mix.

Also high-pass EVERYTHING. I can't stress this enough, this helps you get a more controlled low end and removes those nasty subs. This helps you get more headroom when mastering, especially high-passing away subs. You can't really fix it when mastering either by just throwing a high pass filter first on the 2bus (though you can do this too of course, I do it as well), since every element in the mix needs to be high-passed differently.
Last edited by Ascendant at Dec 3, 2011,
#19
Ok here's something I was just working on, trying to get the kit to sound as good as possible.

It's just the kit, plus bass guitar.

I watched a few videos on Youtube to help with EQing the drums, although I had to improvise a bit as all my toms are on the same track, as are my hihat/cymbals.


EQ is as follows:

Bass guitar: Low shelf at 40hz to get rid of mud, small boost at 120hz to add a bit of punch and a thin cut at 250



Kick drum: Small boost at 50hz to add punch, thin cuts at 400hz and 600hz to remove clicking, and a low pass at 10khz to also remove clicking.



Snare: High pass at 80hz to make room for the kick drum, small boost at 300hz to add some body, thin cut at 1khz to remove some of the twang and a wide boost at 5khz to add some top end to it.



Toms: Tricky because they are all on one track. High pass at 110hz to make room for the kick and boosts at 400hz and 2khz to add mids to the higher toms.



Overheads: Wide cut at 300hz to make room for toms and guitars, and a high shelf at 12khz to add some shine to the top.




Please have a listen, the clip isn't very long. Any feedback, no matter how obvious you think it is, let me know!


http://www.mediafire.com/?xls0n52oyhoq5wi
#20
Also, just had a breakthrough with guitar tone

A youtube video suggested something I had not done before: to put my recorded guitar from my amp through a cabinet VST. I had used cab VSTs before but never with an actual recorded guitar.

Here's the result...

The first riff is Raining Blood, as it was before I applied the cab VST, then the same riff again afterwards.

http://www.mediafire.com/?g6w01g06pggo7g0

Very, very pleased with this. If it wasn't 7:30pm I'd crank my amp and do some fresh recording
#21
Quote by Random3
Also, just had a breakthrough with guitar tone

A youtube video suggested something I had not done before: to put my recorded guitar from my amp through a cabinet VST. I had used cab VSTs before but never with an actual recorded guitar.

Here's the result...

The first riff is Raining Blood, as it was before I applied the cab VST, then the same riff again afterwards.

http://www.mediafire.com/?g6w01g06pggo7g0

Very, very pleased with this. If it wasn't 7:30pm I'd crank my amp and do some fresh recording



I liked the first tone much better. It had a much more usable tone IMO.

What impulses are you using? Are you using the preamp out (effects send) of your amp to record the signal, then applying the impulse afterwards, or are you just applying the impulse to the original mic'd sound? Cause the second clip is super grainy and fake sounding IMO. Also doesn't help your case that the first clip's guitars are much lower in volume than the second.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#22
I was recording my amp with an SM57, not line-in or anything.

Impulses were some Marshall 1960AV SM57 ones I had downloaded a while ago. Had a look afterwards and tried those combined with some Metallica ones.

I will be able to do it properly tomorrow, I recorded with too much gain today so yes the second one is fizzier.
Last edited by Random3 at Dec 3, 2011,
#23
Quote by Random3
I was recording my amp with an SM57, not line-in or anything.

Impulses were some Marshall 1960AV SM57 ones I had downloaded a while ago. Had a look afterwards and tried those combined with some Metallica ones.

I will be able to do it properly tomorrow, I recorded with too much gain today so yes the second one is fizzier.

That's really not what cab impulses are meant for. I guess you can use them that way if it produces a desirable tone, but that's basically the equivalent of taking your amp, putting a mic in front of it and then plugging the mic into the effects loop of another amp and cab, then recording that.

What you should be doing is running the preamp out or effect send directly from your amp into your interface, then running the impulse over that. It's not really a good substitute for good micing technique and conditions, but if you room isn't properly treated, you don't have very good preamps, don't have a good cab, and/or your micing technique isn't the greatest, it can sound much better than what most hobbiests will get just by throwing an SM57 in front of a speaker and hitting record.

Here's a link I compiled of some of my personal impulse files that I have:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4018922/Impulses.zip

I mainly use the ones in the main folder, but you might really like the others.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#25
Alright I've had a play around with the impulses etc and found a tone I like.

I recorded a song, and watched a lot of videos and read a lot of articles about mastering. I gave it a go and I'm pretty much happy with the sound.

One thing that is confusing me however, the wave form of the song looks like this:



The short bits that are fuller than everything else are sections of the song where there is a lot of double kick drumming. Thing is, the kick sounds fine in the mix, it isn't too loud or anything.

Also, particularly noticable on the bottom track, the audio seems to be very "bottom heavy". By this I mean it seems to peak a lot more at the bottom than at the top. I do not understand this at all however I believe it has something to do with phasing, which I know next to nothing about.

Any ideas?

I'll upload the audio clip once I get this sorted


EDIT: I just applied the same mastering process to the Raining Blood recording I had done, sounds great I think so please check it out.

Massive improvement over the initial stages. Here's the link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?qr6j1fy9r2bfpas
Last edited by Random3 at Dec 4, 2011,
#26
There's way too much low end on the kick, that's why the track is clipping during the double kick parts; it also sounds pretty bad. +5 db isn't a small boost, that's pretty huge, especially in the sub region where it will eat a ton more headroom than you realize. Instead of boosting so much, cut from the bass so that you get more thud from the kick without the kick slamming the limiter so hard. I honestly wouldn't worry about trying to master until your mix is a lot more balanced.

I'm pretty sure the audacity screencap just shows the left and right channels; there's no 'top/bottom' that just means the right channel peaks higher than the left channel, another issue for mixing.
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