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#1
I have a Randall NBking 112. It's a really good amp and it has really great lead tones. My problem is that it is not that good for tapping.

I once tried a Peavey "high gain" amp (if that what's it called) and tapping had never been so easy. But with my amp it isn't that easy and I can't get the perfect tap sound which I got from the Peavey.

-Why?
-Is there any effects or pedals which can help me?
#2
Well the high gain is a factor. If you're looking for something to help your tapping tone I'd suggest a compressor.
#3
A compressor pedal would help you.
However... I'd not go that route. Instead you should look at your technique. You can tap just fine using any amp as long as you have solid technique.
Perhaps sit down and work on tapping until you get it down?
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#4
overdrive pedal

but yeah i mean nuno is a total badass at tapping etc. i'm guessing his amp can do it.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
You obviously need to just work on your tapping technique; work on your right hand dexterity.

Don't worry about buying pedals, work on yourself. The tone comes from your hands.
#8
Quote by Metal-pro
I have a Randall NBking 112. It's a really good amp and it has really great lead tones. My problem is that it is not that good for tapping.

I once tried a Peavey "high gain" amp (if that what's it called) and tapping had never been so easy. But with my amp it isn't that easy and I can't get the perfect tap sound which I got from the Peavey.

-Why?
-Is there any effects or pedals which can help me?


This video says its your technique and not your amp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErBRuh_Mwnk
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#10
You need to work on technique. You should be able to pull off all your tapping licks with a completely dry clean tone.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#11
It's all in the technique...
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#12
Ok, I understand I need to look at my technique but my point was: Tapping was much better with the peavy. Easier and it sounded better.

Anyway, I'm really thankful for all your suggestions, thank you!
I'm gonna think about buying a compressor and look at my tapping technique.
#14
Quote by kyle62
TECHNIQUE
This.

I play with the gain on my amp set at 4, I am able to tap without a problem with my amp. This is clearly your technique that is the issue. Sure, higher gain will help get the taps out easier, but you shouldn't rely on the distortion to do all of your work.


...Shit, I could probably even tap on a clean setting.
#16
all you guys saying technique read teh bit where he said he could do it on another amp, right?

granted maybe his technique is iffy, but if he can do it on a 5150 maybe his amp just needs a bit of a boost...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
Higher gain amps have a more compressed sound, so there's less of a volume difference between a tapped and picked note. While you could push up the gain to get the same effect, I would suggest working on your technique to be able to do it with any equipment.

Tap hard. TAP IT LIKE YOU MEAN IT.
#19
Acoustics!!! Practice Tapping on an Acoustic, I dont do much tapping but when i do i always work on it on one of my acoustics sense the tough strings put up alot of resistance and it really gives your fingers a work out if you arent used to it...

After practicing on an acoustic, the electric seems like cheating.

and his 5150 is probably a little bit more responsive than the other amp so it responds easier to tapping, but i'd work on a clean setting or acoustics etc.

ok done.
Last edited by WaltTheWerewolf at Dec 6, 2011,
#20
As said before, its in the technique. If it sounds "better" on one amp then another, it's probably your ear mishearing the sound because of the compression, or amounts of gain on the tone.
#21
Quote by Dave_Mc
all you guys saying technique read teh bit where he said he could do it on another amp, right?

granted maybe his technique is iffy, but if he can do it on a 5150 maybe his amp just needs a bit of a boost...


If he can't do it on clean he shouldn't bother; compression is all very well and good but it's not a solution to having weak technique and that's all a boost would do: compress.

If people can tap with considerable volume on acoustics he should be able to do it on whatever he has.
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#22
Quote by WaltTheWerewolf
Acoustics!!! Practice Tapping on an Acoustic, I dont do much tapping but when i do i always work on it on one of my acoustics sense the tough strings put up alot of resistance and it really gives your fingers a work out if you arent used to it...

After practicing on an acoustic, the electric seems like cheating.

and his 5150 is probably a little bit more responsive than the other amp so it responds easier to tapping, but i'd work on a clean setting or acoustics etc.

ok done.



Works for single string licks.

If u do string skipped tapping licks, you need to practice muting as well.

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#23
Quote by Shor
A compressor pedal would help you.
However... I'd not go that route. Instead you should look at your technique. You can tap just fine using any amp as long as you have solid technique.
Perhaps sit down and work on tapping until you get it down?


This. I've never particularly noticed any difference in comfort tapping based on what amp I was playing through. Obviously the real deciding factor for the OP is the amount of gain - they have to rely on high gain to comfortably tap. But this just means that their tapping technique needs to be stronger. You shouldn't need high amounts of gain (or, technically, any gain at all) to smoothley pull off tapping.
#24
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
If he can't do it on clean he shouldn't bother; compression is all very well and good but it's not a solution to having weak technique and that's all a boost would do: compress.

If people can tap with considerable volume on acoustics he should be able to do it on whatever he has.


but if his technique is good enough to do it on a 6505, why not? it'd give him a bit of encouragement.



I don't get all these internet shred gods jumping down his throat when he asks a perfectly legitimate question and demanding he go back and just practice. We should be encouraging people, not putting them off.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
I think the intention is good, but the execution comes off as putting him down. Everyone is just saying that tapping gets way easier with a high gain amp with the gain turned up. But you shouldn't use that to make your tapping sound better. Instead you should work on tapping technique so that you can make it sound good with less gain. Sure, using an overdrive to boost his gain will work. And if that's the route he wants to take then I say go for it. But for me it would be more beneficial to work on technique as I sometimes like to do clean tapping riffs. So an overdrive wouldn't help me in that regard. I was giving advice based on that perspective. If he is totally fine with leaving his technique the way it is and buying an overdrive, go for it.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#26
I think the intention is good, but the execution comes off as putting him down.


Sure, this forum can get mean-spirited. I've been put off by it sometimes myself. I didn't intend to come off that way. But in such cases I do think that someone needs to be honestly told such things. Knowingly leaving it unaddressed and pointing them to an easy way out seems irresponsible. The OP asked "why" and only secondarily asked about pedals. An honest answer to "why" is going to beg the question of how strong the tapping technique is. That said, some posters could express it in a more tactful way.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Dec 6, 2011,
#27
Quote by Brainpolice2
But in such cases I do think that someone needs to be honestly told such things.

Plus this is an internet forum if you can't take the heat get off the internet!
#28
Quote by Dave_Mc
but if his technique is good enough to do it on a 6505, why not? it'd give him a bit of encouragement.



I don't get all these internet shred gods jumping down his throat when he asks a perfectly legitimate question and demanding he go back and just practice. We should be encouraging people, not putting them off.


Because what you can do shouldn't be limited to what gear you have with you. If someone needs a certain style or amount of gain to play then what do they do if for whatever reason they turn up to a gig and the available gear doesn't match that?

If someone is reliant on gear then they are subject to the whims of what they have at the time, those people who have the technique to be able to do what they do on any set up do not have this limitation.
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#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
but if his technique is good enough to do it on a 6505, why not? it'd give him a bit of encouragement.



I don't get all these internet shred gods jumping down his throat when he asks a perfectly legitimate question and demanding he go back and just practice. We should be encouraging people, not putting them off.


i don't really think that he was treated fairly. none of us saw a clip of whether it be audio or visual. now if we had heard/seen his playing then there would be more justification to practice. it should more so be the innocent until proven guilty. i own quite a few different amps, and play quite a few guitars about equal times, and sometimes X amp with X guitar doesn't sound as you remembered it to be and it just sounds different to you due to the amp's voicing and again compression, some amps to me i feel that they respond a little differently.

i am also not disagreeing saying that if you can tap you should be able to do it with a perfectly clean amp. i am able to, and imagine a great percentage of you can.

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#30
Quote by InanezGuitars44
(a) I think the intention is good, but the execution comes off as putting him down. (b) Everyone is just saying that tapping gets way easier with a high gain amp with the gain turned up. But you shouldn't use that to make your tapping sound better. Instead you should work on tapping technique so that you can make it sound good with less gain. (c) Sure, using an overdrive to boost his gain will work. And if that's the route he wants to take then I say go for it. (d) But for me it would be more beneficial to work on technique as I sometimes like to do clean tapping riffs. So an overdrive wouldn't help me in that regard. I was giving advice based on that perspective. (e) If he is totally fine with leaving his technique the way it is and buying an overdrive, go for it.


(a) yeah, that's sorta what i meant

(b) well, sure, I'm not saying not to practise too, but if that's the tone he'd always use, then i don't see a problem.

it's like people saying you should start on acoustic to build up your finger strength. if you're never going to play teh frigging acoustic there's not much point.

people don't tell schumacher that he should learn how to win a formula 1 race in a vauxhall nova.

(c) that's all i'm saying

(d) that's fair enough, but i prefer to give advice based on the TS's perspective

(e)

Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Because what you can do shouldn't be limited to what gear you have with you. If someone needs a certain style or amount of gain to play then what do they do if for whatever reason they turn up to a gig and the available gear doesn't match that?

If someone is reliant on gear then they are subject to the whims of what they have at the time, those people who have the technique to be able to do what they do on any set up do not have this limitation.


I don't gig, but i think the gear is pretty important. If someone handed me a jazzbox and a blackface silver twin and told me to play some metalcore and acted like i was a crap player if i couldn't pull it off, i think i'd be justified in saying that the person expecting me to play metalcore with that rig was an idiot.

both the gear and the player are important. going back to the formula 1 analogy, I'm not going to win an F1 race in a formula 1 car, but I don't think schumacher (or insert whoever's good at the moment, vettel or whoever, i don't follow it) is going to win many F1 races in a family-sized hatchback either.

granted that's possibly a more extreme example than guitar playing, but i still think it's valid as a very basic analogy to illustrate the point. the poor workman doesn't always blame the tools, sometimes teh tools just are crap, or at least unsuitable.

I also always have strong suspicions that an awful lot of the people who say that you can play anything on any guitar or amp don't actually play the music style in question.

FWIW... i think i'm a decent player. I don't think guthrie govan or anyone like that is worried, but I think I can hold my own, certainly among layman/amateur players of the like who mostly post on internet sites like this. I can certainly tap unplugged. But that's not to say for certain pieces that I don't need a certain amount of gain and compression. Anyone claiming you don't is either a far better player than I am (and if you're gonna claim that, I'm gonna want to hear clips of you letting rip ), or lying, or an idiot, or doesn't actually play that type of music.



Quote by trashedlostfdup
i don't really think that he was treated fairly. none of us saw a clip of whether it be audio or visual. now if we had heard/seen his playing then there would be more justification to practice. it should more so be the innocent until proven guilty. i own quite a few different amps, and play quite a few guitars about equal times, and sometimes X amp with X guitar doesn't sound as you remembered it to be and it just sounds different to you due to the amp's voicing and again compression, some amps to me i feel that they respond a little differently.

i am also not disagreeing saying that if you can tap you should be able to do it with a perfectly clean amp. i am able to, and imagine a great percentage of you can.



exactly
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 7, 2011,
#31
+1 to Dave. Basically said what I've been thinking.
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#32
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
Quote by Dave_Mc
I don't gig, but i think the gear is pretty important. If someone handed me a jazzbox and a blackface silver twin and told me to play some metalcore and acted like i was a crap player if i couldn't pull it off, i think i'd be justified in saying that the person expecting me to play metalcore with that rig was an idiot.

both the gear and the player are important. going back to the formula 1 analogy, I'm not going to win an F1 race in a formula 1 car, but I don't think schumacher (or insert whoever's good at the moment, vettel or whoever, i don't follow it) is going to win many F1 races in a family-sized hatchback either.

granted that's possibly a more extreme example than guitar playing, but i still think it's valid as a very basic analogy to illustrate the point. the poor workman doesn't always blame the tools, sometimes teh tools just are crap, or at least unsuitable.


But this isn't about the tone or the gig, it's about the skills and not being limited. Tapping is a skill that is independent of tone and gear and if you're good it isn't affected by those things either. The workman must be skilled before he can tell if the tools are poor or not.

To take your analogy: no, Schumacher isn't going to be winning any F1 races in a family-sized hatchback but if it was a race full of them you can bet your arse he'd win. Same principle: you do the best you can with the tools you have, and in this case if I can tap on my cheap-as-hell £50 acoustic, my friend's strat, Les Paul, and all of my own guitars including three different basses you can be sure that it's not the gear that's the problem for TS.
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#34
My opinion is that anyone who needs to use a shitload of gain in order to make their playing sound good is not a good player.

You should be able to do any technique with or without distortion, and the distortion is only to be added to make it sound more interesting in the end, but a skill such as tapping should be able to be done on anything, with or without distortion. Even an acoustic.
#35
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
(a) But this isn't about the tone or the gig, it's about the skills and not being limited. Tapping is a skill that is independent of tone and gear and if you're good it isn't affected by those things either. The workman must be skilled before he can tell if the tools are poor or not.

(b) To take your analogy: no, Schumacher isn't going to be winning any F1 races in a family-sized hatchback but if it was a race full of them you can bet your arse he'd win. Same principle: you do the best you can with the tools you have, and in this case if I can tap on my cheap-as-hell £50 acoustic, my friend's strat, Les Paul, and all of my own guitars including three different basses you can be sure that it's not the gear that's the problem for TS.


(a) how the heck is it not affected? are you telling me if i play some licks unplugged and then play through a soldano it's going to sound the same? there ARE certain techniques where you need a certain tone for it to sound and feel right.

(b) but you're putting limits on the thing now (i.e. moving the goalposts), and there aren't really any limits in guitar playing (bar budget, maybe, and even then). there's a reason why people who have a reasonably free choice regarding what they use use what they use. it's because it's better for it.

No-one's forcing him to use any particular amp. A better analogy to yours would be, "Hey, michael, F1 race coming up, what car do you want to use?" and i bet you he's not going to pick the hatchback.

Yeah, ok, maybe in some gig you might turn up to they might have gear you don't like (but at the same time there are ways round it... you could bring a pedal with you or something, sure, it's not as good as your high gain tube stack but it's not like there's any realistic real-world scenario where you're going to have to play through something which is completely unsuited for what you play).

Again, as i said, if he can do it with a 6505 his technique might be "good enough". That doesn't mean I'm not saying he shouldn't practise more or anything like that, but it also doesn't justify everyone jumping down his throat telling him to practise more, either.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
man on one hand i'm all like herp.

but on the other hand i'm all like derp.

ya you should be able to tap on an acoustic...

but you should also be able to play completely clean on a cranked marshall.
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#37
yeah this assertion that added distortion only makes things easier is a myth. I can probably play more intricate stuff more easily unplugged than through tons of preamp distortion (aside from the stuff like loads of tapping or legato where the extra compression helps, and even then).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
Certain high gain amps, generally speaking the "brown" camp (peavey 5150/6505, Soldano etc.) just sound better for tapping than other amps. It's not that you can't tap on a hot rod deluxe or a crate power block but it's just not going to sound the same. Some of it's compression. Some of it's gain. Some of it's the frequency response. Some of it's the power section feel. But the idea that there is no difference is absurd. It's not all about technique.
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#39
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) how the heck is it not affected? are you telling me if i play some licks unplugged and then play through a soldano it's going to sound the same? there ARE certain techniques where you need a certain tone for it to sound and feel right.


The only techniques I can think of that need gain to work are pinch harmonics (although I doubt that anyway, I can get them to sound on an acoustic) and Matthias Eklundh style harmonic madness.

Aside from that techniques exist and sound fine irrespective of gear as long as you have the skills to make it work. Note: I'm not saying that it will sound the same, you'd have to be a moron to try and argue that, but there's nothing stopping you from making them work.

I'm not a particularly good guitarist, I know that for a fact and anyone can and will tell you the same if you let them, but the fact remains: I can make every technique I know work on any guitar you care to hand me. I can and have played on everything from uber-low action Ibanez's to poorly set up and cheap ES335 copies and been able to do everything the same. I'm not saying I like it, I'm certainly not saying that an ES335 or similar sounds anything like a 7 string Ibanez in drop G but that doesn't matter because I have the chops to make the technique work.

Quote by DaveMc
(b) but you're putting limits on the thing now (i.e. moving the goalposts), and there aren't really any limits in guitar playing (bar budget, maybe, and even then). there's a reason why people who have a reasonably free choice regarding what they use use what they use. it's because it's better for it.

No-one's forcing him to use any particular amp. A better analogy to yours would be, "Hey, michael, F1 race coming up, what car do you want to use?" and i bet you he's not going to pick the hatchback.


No, no one's forcing him to use any particular amp but by succumbing to weak technique and needing a certain level of compression or gain to make something work he is effectively doing that to himself. Here's a more realistic scenario for you then:

This person finds an amp that covers for their weaknesses and it's fine for a while until they hear a tone that blows their mind: "YES! That is MY sound!" he says but upon playing the amp they discover that their technique isn't good enough to make it work. What then? Likely become disheartened, not buy the amp and always want that tone but think some BS about it not being for them or that amp being wrong or something else that's equally stupid.

Yeah, sure, they might buy the amp and practice hard but why wait until then to do it when you could do it now and know that you're prepared for anything that might be thrown at you?

Quote by Dave_Mc
Yeah, ok, maybe in some gig you might turn up to they might have gear you don't like (but at the same time there are ways round it... you could bring a pedal with you or something, sure, it's not as good as your high gain tube stack but it's not like there's any realistic real-world scenario where you're going to have to play through something which is completely unsuited for what you play).


Turn up to a jam night in a bar where they only have crappy little 30w solid state 1x12 combos with little to no gain and a horrible mid spike that makes them sound obnoxiously honky and then tell me there's no situation where you won't be playing through something completely unsuited to your style. These things do happen and there's no reason not to be ready for them.

Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah this assertion that added distortion only makes things easier is a myth. I can probably play more intricate stuff more easily unplugged than through tons of preamp distortion (aside from the stuff like loads of tapping or legato where the extra compression helps, and even then).


Then your technique is also weak, your tapping should be the same volume as your picking. I would also suggest that if you have trouble with gain you're likely to have problems with your muting technique and you should probably work on managing string noise.

Neither is easier than the other but neither should change what you can and can't do, there's just no reason for it.

Quote by Even Bigger D
Certain high gain amps, generally speaking the "brown" camp (peavey 5150/6505, Soldano etc.) just sound better for tapping than other amps. It's not that you can't tap on a hot rod deluxe or a crate power block but it's just not going to sound the same. Some of it's compression. Some of it's gain. Some of it's the frequency response. Some of it's the power section feel. But the idea that there is no difference is absurd. It's not all about technique.


That's a tone issue though, TS said one felt easy and the other wasn't. There's no good reason for that at all.
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Dec 7, 2011,
#40
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr


Then your technique is also weak, your tapping should be the same volume as your picking. I would also suggest that if you have trouble with gain you're likely to have problems with your muting technique and you should probably work on managing string noise.

Neither is easier than the other but neither should change what you can and can't do, there's just no reason for it.



Dave might suck at taking photos of his stuff, but he has no issues with technique, he is probably one of the most modest people on this forum.

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