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#1
EU members who use the euros have agreed to a tax and budget pact to tackle the eurozone's debt crisis.

But a German and French attempt to get all 27 EU states to back changes to the union's treaties was dropped after objections from the UK.

Prime Minister David Cameron had insisted on an exemption for the UK from some financial regulations.

Instead, eurozone members and others will adopt an accord with penalties for breaking deficit rules.

The new tougher rules on spending and budgets will now be backed not by an EU treaty but by a treaty between governments. It will be quicker to set up but it may prove less rigorous, says the BBC's Europe editor Gavin Hewitt in Brussels.

But, he says, Europe has taken a big step towards closer integration, with binding rules over tax and spending, and sanctions against countries that overspend.

Britain's David Cameron said he had not signed up to the deal because it was not in Britain's interests.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16104089
More articles: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16106979

Where the EU-countries stand on the issue: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16107052

This is quite big news. A new eurozone deal was made without the UK who vetoed the changes. It doesn't expressively say why but since it's Cameron who did it I assume it was for cuntish reasons. You guys more confident in the euro now? Or will it all go to hell in a handbasket?
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Last edited by Kensai at Dec 9, 2011,
#3
Will be interesting to see it pan out, it was vetoed because he didn't want the UK economy to be dictated by the EU's proposed banking overlords.
#4
Wait, the UK is not part of the Euro. Why the hell would we want to have a treaty with them. **** them and their money printing.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#5
Watched PMQ's on Wednesday and they were all pushing for Cameron to "stand up for Britain" so he had to be an arse really.

Don't let your boat be empty, don't be a sunken dream
Don't let the boat regret thee, for what you could have seen

#6
Ah, glad to see Cameron standing up for our the City's interests. I oppose this treaty, and don't necessarily think it was a bad move, but the motivations are typically Tory.
#7
The euro was doomed from the start. David Cameron is just doing what's best for the UK and I think that's fair enough.
#8
So I'm the only one who has no faith whatsoever in David Cameron and regardless of his actions always think they're for the worst for the people?
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#9
Quote by So-Cal
The euro was doomed from the start. David Cameron is just doing what's best for the UK and I think that's fair enough.

Well, it is part of the British circle of evil:

Labour: Spend all the money!
Tories: Cut all the spending!
And so it repeats, again and again.
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#10
Can anyone tell me why Britain would oppose this? Their situation is much worse than the average of the EU (see attachment the blue EA is the average of the EU).
Attachments:
EU.png
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#11
tl;dr

Can someone explain why I should be worried about this?
#12
Quote by Neo Evil11
Can anyone tell me why Britain would oppose this? Their situation is much worse than the average of the EU (see attachment the blue EA is the average of the EU).


The British government actually supports the measures. However, the Tories wanted Cameron to exploit the eurozone crisis and the desperation of the others to extract concessions and safeguards out of them - so, basically, protecting the City from regulation.

The eurozone told him to get ****ed and did the deal without him. What lads.

EDIT:

@WaterGod.

Basically, if the euro collapses, there will be lots of bank defaults, massive economic crises in Europe, which will have serious knock-on effects on the rest of the world. Which is why Timothy Geithner keeps flying over to EU summits, and why Obama keeps telling the EU to get its shit together. Also, there's a real danger of a far-right backlash, already happening in some places, if economic crisis keeps damaging living standards.
Last edited by gabcd86 at Dec 9, 2011,
#13
Quote by WaterGod
tl;dr

Can someone explain why I should be worried about this?

Europe = US tradepartners.
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#14
Quote by gabcd86
The British government actually supports the measures. However, the Tories wanted Cameron to exploit the eurozone crisis and the desperation of the others to extract concessions and safeguards out of them - so, basically, protecting the City from regulation.

The eurozone told him to get ****ed and did the deal without him. What lads.


But as I have shown in the figure. GB needs to cut spending. That is the part that the treaty was about, wasn't it?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#15
Quote by Neo Evil11
But as I have shown in the figure. GB needs to cut spending. That is the part that the treaty was about, wasn't it?


A) Not really
B) It already is
C) Yeah, but only for eurozone countries. Plus, as I said, the government supports this plan for the eurozone.

Unfortunately, it's a stupid plan.
#16
Quote by Neo Evil11
But as I have shown in the figure. GB needs to cut spending. That is the part that the treaty was about, wasn't it?


Tell that to British Working class and they'll probably cut you.


But you're right.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#17
Quote by gabcd86
A) Not really
B) It already is
C) Yeah, but only for eurozone countries. Plus, as I said, the government supports this plan for the eurozone.

Unfortunately, it's a stupid plan.


...why A? If your deficit grows even more, you get into the same problems as greece and Japan.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#18
Quote by Neo Evil11
...why A? If your deficit grows even more, you get into the same problems as greece and Japan.


The deficit is growing more because of the spending cuts. And it is largely a cyclical deficit - the banking crisis wiped out revenues and required massive spending - Britain didn't have that big a deficit previously, and it's debt was mostly long-term. Furthermore, having our own currency gives us more security than Greece, for example.
However, spending cuts are trampling growth, which means that tax revenues stay low, and spending rises on benefits, etc., meaning that Osborne has had to delay the end his deficit reduction programme another year and will have to keep cutting until the election. Borrowing is actually going up.
#19
Quote by Neo Evil11
...why A? If your deficit grows even more, you get into the same problems as greece and Japan.

cutting spending isn't the only way to reduce the deficit.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#20
Quote by Lemoninfluence
cutting spending isn't the only way to reduce the deficit.

Quote by gabcd86
The deficit is growing more because of the spending cuts. And it is largely a cyclical deficit - the banking crisis wiped out revenues and required massive spending - Britain didn't have that big a deficit previously, and it's debt was mostly long-term. Furthermore, having our own currency gives us more security than Greece, for example.
However, spending cuts are trampling growth, which means that tax revenues stay low, and spending rises on benefits, etc., meaning that Osborne has had to delay the end his deficit reduction programme another year and will have to keep cutting until the election. Borrowing is actually going up.


Spoken like true Keynesians. >.> I truly doubt that GB can pay back the debt they are accumulating now within 10-20 years before the next crisis hits. It's not like they are going to have growth rates of 5% after the crisis. But I need to have more data on other macroeconomic variables before making a sound argument. They might go after Japan with their massive debt, but high savings surplus.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#21
Quote by Neo Evil11
Spoken like true Keynesians. >.> I truly doubt that GB can pay back the debt they are accumulating now within 10-20 years before the next crisis hits. It's not like they are going to have growth rates of 5% after the crisis. But I need to have more data on other macroeconomic variables before making a sound argument. They might go after Japan with their massive debt, but high savings surplus.


I agree that the UK is unlikely to do very well, the economy has severe structural problems. The government is/has stifled/stifling any chance we had of growth though.
#22
Quote by Kensai
You guys more confident in the euro now? Or will it all go to hell in a handbasket?


selfishmode on:
I'm hoping for the second. The Euro crisis, and specifically Greece, has driven my precious metals stocks through the roof. GLD and SLV have had a ridiculous climb in the last several years.
:selfishmode off

Now, yeah, I'm making money off of other people's misery.

I think if the EU wants to dig itself out of this hole quickly they need to drop the baggage they're carrying. They need to do something about Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland. The fat, asthmatic, cancerous camels are holding the caravan back. They need to find away to alleviate those countries specifically before they can tackle debt in the whole EU.
Last edited by Seref at Dec 9, 2011,
#23
Eurozone and other EU countries to provide up to 200bn euros to the IMF to help debt-stricken eurozone members

| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ
#24
Quote by Seref
I'm hoping for the second. The Euro crisis, and specifically Greece, has driven my precious metals stocks through the roof. GLD and SLV have had a ridiculous climb in the last several years.

So the entire world economy must go to the shits so you can have some profit on your stocks?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#25
Quote by Neo Evil11
So the entire world economy must go to the shits so you can have some profit on your stocks?


No, but I wouldn't complain if it held out for another few months. Mostly because I don't live there. If the US dips again like it did in 08 and 06 I'd likely change my tune very fast.

I realize it makes me a massive ****. I got in the game in 2006 and I've made a lot off of a shitty situation, which both sucks and is awesome.
Last edited by Seref at Dec 9, 2011,
#26
Quote by Seref
No, but I wouldn't complain if it held out for another few months. Mostly because I don't live there. If the US dips again like it did in 08 and 06 I'd likely change my tune very fast.

I realize it makes me a massive ****. I got in the game in 2006 and I've made a lot off of a shitty situation, which both sucks and is awesome.


I don't care, but it sounds quite harsh.

I also don't think you can just drop those other countries. Instead we must invest in some long term changes, like better roads and better human capital, fight corruption etc.etc.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#27
I vote for kicking the UK out of the EU until they start being team players.

They're like that lonely ugly friend of a hot chick who's always cockblocking you from getting shit done.

(by this I of course mean the UK government, not the UK people, because they're awesome.)
#29
The trouble is that this whole episode is to protect and secure the Euro currency, of which we aren't a part of. It makes little sense to force our economy to conform to the new terms of the treaty. That's what I get from it anyway. I'm not too well versed on economies and all that jazz.
#30
Quote by JackalUK
The trouble is that this whole episode is to protect and secure the Euro currency, of which we aren't a part of. It makes little sense to force our economy to conform to the new terms of the treaty. That's what I get from it anyway. I'm not too well versed on economies and all that jazz.

you guys SHOULD have the euro, though.



For the greater good.
#31
Quote by JackalUK
The trouble is that this whole episode is to protect and secure the Euro currency, of which we aren't a part of. It makes little sense to force our economy to conform to the new terms of the treaty. That's what I get from it anyway. I'm not too well versed on economies and all that jazz.


I am also not quite sure why we would want the UK etc. to be involved.

^ Where is that from>?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#32
Quote by Neo Evil11
I am also not quite sure why we would want the UK etc. to be involved.

^ Where is that from>?

Your mom's crotch.

Hot fuzz
#33
Quote by CoreysMonster
Your mom's crotch.

Hot fuzz


Why did they ever make you mod? That was a worse decision than letting Greece into the monetary union.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#34
Quote by Neo Evil11
Why did they ever make you mod? That was a worse decision than letting Greece into the monetary union.


That's why the didn't, he hasn't reached the dizzying heights of modship yet.


...kill me.
#35
Quote by JackalUK
That's why the didn't, he hasn't reached the dizzying heights of modship yet.

...kill me.


My pleasure. But what kind of crazy orange hybrid is he then?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#36
Quote by Neo Evil11
Why did they ever make you mod? That was a worse decision than letting Greece into the monetary union.

I'm not a mod, I just delete spam and flame comments in the article section.
#37
I'm for pissing off France & German, in regards to the EU.

I'm usually against everything David Cameron does.


I am conflicted here.

can't find any exact details on what Cameron vetoed/had issues with in particular with the financial regulations and I skimmed the article in the paper, can someone enlighten me?
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#38
The Tobin tax was a big one from what I can work out. A tax on financial transactions. As London is a massive trading spot it would incur disproportionate taxes compared to the rest of Europe, that are paid to the EUs central bank. We would lose tons of money that way.
#39
Well the hopes aren't exactly high here. Claims that the Euro and our country are going down in flames are not rare.
Also, I've been taking an European Study class this year. The main point in the program is the history of the EU and from what I've gathered, the UK vetoes everything it get's it's hands on.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#40
Quote by JackalUK
The Tobin tax was a big one from what I can work out. A tax on financial transactions. As London is a massive trading spot it would incur disproportionate taxes compared to the rest of Europe, that are paid to the EUs central bank. We would lose tons of money that way.


I'm a strong supporter of the robin hood tax, so in a dream world there would be a UK specific one with the money going to our funds. Would raise so much
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