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#1
I do not have much experience with amps. From reading things on the internet it seems that Fender amps are thought to be kind of the best clean channel tube amps. If anyone have tried both, how are Laney VC series amps compared to contemporary (that are in production) Fender true tube amps on the clean channel? Are Laney VC series good on clean channels or are they not that satisfactory? Is it possible to describe the differences? Do they take pedals well?
I tried Laney VC15 with Boss DS-1, and frankly, it sounds horrible to me, but since I haven't tried DS-1 with anything else, except with an amp modeler V-Amp 2, with which it sucked too, I can presume that DS-1 is just not my type of pedal and it's not Laney's fault.

The reason I am asking is too long to explain. In short, I have Laney VC15, but I wonder whether I should sell it and buy some Fender, because I am going to use a clean channel with distortion pedals. I watched some Pro Guitar Shop demos of distortion pedals, where they use Fender amp, and that sounds good. I wonder whether a Laney can sound as good (I still haven't bought any pedal) or should I better buy a Fender for that purpose.
I quite like how my Laney VC15 sounds on a clean channel, but like I said, with DS-1 it sounds horrible. I brought it to a guitar store and tried some distortion pedals with it and I liked some, but the problem is that the acoustics in that testing room in a shop differ from my room's, and it's generally difficult for me to form an opinion in a store (probably that's psychological, because I don't feel comfortable there). So I am not sure that Laney will work good with, let's say Rothwell Switchblade; or maybe it will work well, but maybe it would work better with a Fender amp.

I am mostly talking about bedroom volume levels. Guitar - Les Paul, but I think a good amp should work well with all types of guitars.
#2
The problem is you're running a DS1.

What kind of drive sound are you after? Metal, rock, hard rock?
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#3
I quite like this sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndTeKMKv_I&feature=relmfu

If I recall right, he uses Fender Twin Reverb there. I may be buying this pedal anyway, and of course I would be able to make my own judgements then, and quite honestly, I am prepared to be a bit disappointed (as usually), but I still would like some thoughts from people who have tried both Fender and Laney VC amps. I am not much experienced and when trying an amp I maybe too concentrated on one thing and miss something else or I may not know what to look for. I am just asking to tell your opinions about those two amps.

As for the stuff I am going to use it - hard rock, thrash metal. But the question is not what sound I am after - the question is whether Laney VC amp can sound almost as good as a Fender? Like if I use the same pedal as here, could it sound as good as here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndTeKMKv_I&feature=relmfu
I read people saying that Orange Tiny Terror does not sound good on cleans, for example, so I wonder what is the opinion about Laney VC of the people who know about amps (because I do not know much about them)


Quote by Eppicurt
The problem is you're running a DS1.

By the way, DS-1 sounds good through Mesa/Boogie Studio Preamp on Nirvana's Nevermind - how that comes?
Last edited by andriusd at Dec 11, 2011,
#5
you really don't know what you're doing with the laney!

you should boost the drive channel with a transparent OD, works a treat

& for the price you are paying for a VC you'd not get anything worth getting of a fender

to be honest, laney vs fender isnt the best comparison, the laney is voiced very similar to a Vox with again is like chalk and cheese with fenders...

Biritsh voiced vs American voiced?

I really wouldn't use the DS-1 with anything, seriously..
#6
DS-1 into some amp sounds crap. Hold the presses! Inform Ripley's Believe it or Not!!
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#7
i use a laney VC30 most of the time and occasionally my cousin's fender twin.

i don't think the fender really handles distortion pedals any better than my laney to be honest. they are just different. i actually prefer the way the laney's drive channel handles pedals - in it's price range i don't know of many better amps for running pedals into than the laney VCs. like everyone else has said, the problem here is the DS-1, although i suggest you try using it with the amp's overdrive channel with the drive turned down until the sound is pretty much clean, i'd say set it at about 4 as a starting point. that ought to round off some of the harsh edges of the pedal's sound and add a bit of warmth to the otherwise cold and sterile sound of the pedal.

with regards to kurt cobain's DS-1 tone, on nevermind the guitars are layered so you're not gonna recreate that sound with just one pair of hands anyway, and he was using an older DS-1 that was internally quite different to the ones you can get now. he also didn't use the DS-1 for everything, some of the layered guitar parts were done with a bunch of other distortion pedals, overdriven amps, and so on and so forth.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#8
Quote by SexyLikeAPig
Can't you use the drive channel on your VC15? Or do you not like it?


Yes, I kind of dislike it. I like it for some stuff, but for the other stuff I do not like it. All in all, I would rather live without it than could use only it.


Quote by daverichards
you should boost the drive channel with a transparent OD, works a treat

I know that. I haven't tried boosting with a proper booster (tried Bad Monkey and TS9, but with an inferior guitar, so that does not count), but it would only increase the level of distortion - it won't change the character of the sound much, if I understand that right. Like I said, I do not like that sounds much.


Quote by daverichards
for the price you are paying for a VC you'd not get anything worth getting of a fender

Yes, but sometimes money is not the most important factor


Quote by daverichards
to be honest, laney vs fender isnt the best comparison, the laney is voiced very similar to a Vox with again is like chalk and cheese with fenders...
Biritsh voiced vs American voiced?

Okay... but then could you say that Laney (or Vox) is a good clean amp - a British counterpart to Fender?

For example, Fenders are notorious for the clean sound, Marshall's are notorious for the distorted sound and Laney - one of their first user was Tony Iommi. There is not much clean parts on Black Sabbath albums


Quote by daverichards
is like chalk and cheese with fenders

What does it mean? (I don't know English that good).
#9
Quote by Cathbard
DS-1 into some amp sounds crap. Hold the presses! Inform Ripley's Believe it or Not!!

This. With dark-voiced amps it can work a treat, but some just don't play well at all. However, more than anything the DS-1 is not a 'bedroom volume' pedal.


More importantly, if you want to play rock/thrash/metal, you own the wrong amp.

A good clean channel with a dirt pedal will not sound anything like an amp built from the ground up to be voiced for heavy driven tones.


Thinking you can take an clean amp and use pedals to make it a metal monster is like thinking you can take a ride-on lawnmower, fit it with spoilers, slick tyres, disc brakes and a turbocharger and then expect it to race like a Ferrari.
Conversely, buying a metal amp for clean tones is like sticking blades on the front of said Ferrari and using it to mow the lawn.

In both cases, it'll do the job - but you won't get the results you're looking for.


Frankly, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you play with distortion, get an amp that's designed to be distorted.
Last edited by kyle62 at Dec 11, 2011,
#10
Quote by andriusd
Yes, I kind of dislike it. I like it for some stuff, but for the other stuff I do not like it. All in all, I would rather live without it than could use only it.


I know that. I haven't tried boosting with a proper booster (tried Bad Monkey and TS9, but with an inferior guitar, so that does not count), but it would only increase the level of distortion - it won't change the character of the sound much, if I understand that right. Like I said, I do not like that sounds much.


Yes, but sometimes money is not the most important factor


Okay... but then could you say that Laney (or Vox) is a good clean amp - a British counterpart to Fender?

For example, Fenders are notorious for the clean sound, Marshall's are notorious for the distorted sound and Laney - one of their first user was Tony Iommi. There is not much clean parts on Black Sabbath albums


What does it mean? (I don't know English that good).



Laney VC amps are not going to used by Black Sabbath?
They are very very similar to Vox's - did you not know this when you bought it?
#11
Quote by andriusd


What does it mean? (I don't know English that good).



Like comparing chalk and cheese - two completely different things. Trying to compare the two is just silly.

You could try putting a boost in front of the Drive channel. Or maybe an EQ in the loop. Just not a DS-1.

What is it exactly that you don't like about the drive channel?

Also, the VC isn't really the best amp for Thrash, and putting a dist in front of an amp isn't going to sound the same as an amp built for good distortion.
RIP Adam
Last edited by SexyLikeAPig at Dec 11, 2011,
#12
What you want is a Laney VH100R. Stop dicking around with crappy pedals like a DS-1 and buy the right amp for the job.
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#13
Quote by kyle62
More importantly, if you want to play rock/thrash/metal, you own the wrong amp.

A good clean channel with a dirt pedal will not sound anything like an amp built from the ground up to be voiced for heavy driven tones.


I should have not mentioned metal at all. I provided a video for Rothwell pedal - it plays things like Led Zeppelin, Helmut's Unsung sounds good too... I want my amp to sound good with such a pedal - that's all. I mean, let's take that pedal as a reference point, not thrash metal or other type of music. Fender is, I suppose, built not to be voiced for heavy driven tones, but it handles that pedal well...
#14
You want an amp that works well with a shit pedal? Can you please refer me to your drug dealer? He's got some excellent shit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Randall RM100 & RM20
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#15
Quote by SexyLikeAPig

What is it exactly that you don't like about the drive channel?


I don't know how to describe. It's too hard, if that word makes any sense. I tried MXR Distortion III through a clean channel and I think I liked it more.
#16
Quote by andriusd
I should have not mentioned metal at all. I provided a video for Rothwell pedal - it plays things like Led Zeppelin, Helmut's Unsung sounds good too... I want my amp to sound good with such a pedal - that's all. I mean, let's take that pedal as a reference point, not thrash metal or other type of music. Fender is, I suppose, built not to be voiced for heavy driven tones, but it handles that pedal well...


That video is a professional demo that would have used an expensive mic, the amp was probably cranked and it would have been professionally mixed post-recording. And not all Fenders sound the same.

You want to play Hard Rock, Thrash, Metal etc? Why not sell the VC and get an amp that can do those things with ease? Are there any other types of music you want to play?

You could get a Fender and use it as a pedal base and that's your decision, but it seems a bit ridiculous to get an amp that's got good cleans so you can run pedals through it, when you can just get an amp that's got good drive.
RIP Adam
#17
Hey, let's stop talking about DS-1, okay? I mentioned DS-1 only to say that I completely hated how it sounded through Laney. I did not say that I was going to use DS-1.
#18
Quote by andriusd
I should have not mentioned metal at all. I provided a video for Rothwell pedal - it plays things like Led Zeppelin, Helmut's Unsung sounds good too... I want my amp to sound good with such a pedal - that's all. I mean, let's take that pedal as a reference point, not thrash metal or other type of music. Fender is, I suppose, built not to be voiced for heavy driven tones, but it handles that pedal well...

You're still misguided.

Buying an amp with the best clean channel when you're using it mostly for overdrive is just not smart, whichever way you look at it.

Even the very best £300 overdrive pedals aren't as good as a decent valve amp's preamp - pedals are designed to complement your amp, not redesign it.


As for the video you posted, that Rothwell pedal sounds good, but any decent Marshall-voiced valve amp will do the exact same tone, but with more definition and dynamics. That Rothwell sounds to me like one of the Vox VT series' Marshall simulations in a box.


Here's an example, you play in a blues band and own a Fender Twin, but then you got offered a few gigs with a hard rock band. You could pick up that Rothwell pedal and do a solid job without having to borrow or buy a more suitable amp.

However, buying your amp to complement the pedal is nuts.


Also, that video didn't at any point let you hear the sound before the pedal was turned on, which is a big no-no in my book.


Here's a good cheap amp which I think nails the tone you like in that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HsIrQC1ztOQ#t=259s
Last edited by kyle62 at Dec 11, 2011,
#19
Quote by SexyLikeAPig
That video is a professional demo that would have used an expensive mic, the amp was probably cranked and it would have been professionally mixed post-recording. And not all Fenders sound the same.


That's the problem with those videos...


Quote by SexyLikeAPig
You want to play Hard Rock, Thrash, Metal etc? Why not sell the VC and get an amp that can do those things with ease? Are there any other types of music you want to play?

You could get a Fender and use it as a pedal base and that's your decision, but it seems a bit ridiculous to get an amp that's got good cleans so you can run pedals through it, when you can just get an amp that's got good drive.


I tried Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18 with its original cabinet (and also with some Orange and Marshall cabinets) - did not like it; I think even my Laney sounded better to me through those same cabinets. Tried Blackheart Devil Something through those three cabs - did not like either - would definitely choose Laney over that one. Did not try Tiny Terror, though. I could try Vox Night Train, but I doubt I'll like it. There are no more other amps in the local stores that I could try. Well, I could try Blackstar HT5, but I did not like HT1, so... I do not want to risk buying an amp online without trying it first, because from youtube demos I though I'll love Tubemeister - when I heard it live, I didn't.

Like you said, people crank their amps - I cannot do that, since I play in an appartment. I don't think I'll get a good sounding distortion from an amp at that volume. Plus one drive channel is not versatile - it's okay for one kind of stuff, but I'll want something different for the other. So I decided I'll better use clean amp with pedals.
Like I said, I tried some small wattage amps and I did not like them - liked them even less than Laney - both clean and overdriven.
#21
Quote by kyle62
You're still misguided.

Buying an amp with the best clean channel when you're using it mostly for overdrive is just not smart, whichever way you look at it.

Even the very best £300 overdrive pedals aren't as good as a decent valve amp's preamp - pedals are designed to complement your amp, not redesign it.

As for the video you posted, that Rothwell pedal sounds good, but any decent Marshall-voiced valve amp will do the exact same tone, but with more definition and dynamics. That Rothwell sounds to me like one of the Vox VT series' Marshall simulations in a box.


I agree, but my main concern is that all people that use amp's dirt channel play them on almost full volume whereas I am limited to some 2 or 3 (and honestly, even if I could play at any volume, I wouldn't play very loud, because I'm not into loudness). Will any decent Marshall-voiced valve amp do that sound at volume set to 2? Maybe I understand that wrong, but the way I understand it, pedal does not care what the volume is... And I hope it's still better than a digital crap. Maybe I'm wrong... You convinced me that everything is not that easy as I thought...
#22
I agree with what you said about the clean amp, about the pedal, but still: aren't all amps dirty channels mostly used on almost full volume? Isn't it like I will never have that sound at 2 from an amp's dirty channel?

Also, I have never heard any real Marshall or anything like that live. I have never heard a real powerful distortion from a high watt tube amp LIVE with my own ears - only on music records. So maybe my understanding of how the dirty channel of tube amp should sound is somewhat wrong.
Last edited by andriusd at Dec 11, 2011,
#23
Quote by andriusd
I agree with what you said about the clean amp, about the pedal, but still: aren't all amps dirty channels mostly used on almost full volume? Isn't it like I will never have that sound at 2 from an amp's dirty channel?

No. If it's an amp with a master volume you can get all your distortion from the preamp by turning the gain up and the volume down.
Did you look at the link to the Snott Watt I posted?
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#24
Quote by Cathbard
Did you look at the link to the Snott Watt I posted?


That's a very interesting option, but too difficult to get this, because I'm in Europe.
#25
Quote by andriusd
That's a very interesting option, but too difficult to get this, because I'm in Europe.

yea if only someone would drop a box at the post office huh?

wait, that's what i do when i send things to florida or arizona or california or turkey or australia or anywhere but the moon.

i have to send that stuff to florida first.

people will ship stuff anywhere bro, it's 2011. a while back, someone made airplanes.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#26
Quote by gregs1020
yea if only someone would drop a box at the post office huh?

wait, that's what i do when i send things to florida or arizona or california or turkey or australia or anywhere but the moon.

i have to send that stuff to florida first.

people will ship stuff anywhere bro, it's 2011. a while back, someone made airplanes.


You need to strap it to the back of one of H.P, Lovecraft's cats.
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#28
Quote by gregs1020
yea if only someone would drop a box at the post office huh?
..........
people will ship stuff anywhere bro, it's 2011. a while back, someone made airplanes.


Yeah, and I will have to pay enormous amount for shipping (how do you think what would it be?) and then pay some 20 percent of value+shipping at the customs. I don't want to be spending such amounts on customs taxes.
#29
Couldn't be over $200 surely. Are you sure about customs? Our customs don't tax anything under $2000 (I think, something like that). If you don't know, check it out. You may be pleasantly surprised. It'd be worth it though. Those things are quite reasonably priced to begin with. It's not just another mass produced piece of junk churned out by 14yo Chinese girls in a sweat shop.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#31
Quote by denied
Wait, why is gear in Aussieland priced so stupidly if nothing under 2000 is customs taxed??

My guess is a monopoly by importers. I buy a lot of stuff from the states and with postage it's normally heaps cheaper than buying in a shop. It's usually cheaper to buy Japanese stuff in the US. So Japan > US > Australia is cheaper than Japan > Australia. Give me a break.
It's widespread amongst all retailers so I conclude that the gouging is going on at wholesale level. Tax has nothing to do with it, the discrepancy is far too great.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Dec 12, 2011,
#33
Quote by Cathbard
Couldn't be over $200 surely. Are you sure about customs? Our customs don't tax anything under $2000 (I think, something like that). If you don't know, check it out. You may be pleasantly surprised. It'd be worth it though. Those things are quite reasonably priced to begin with. It's not just another mass produced piece of junk churned out by 14yo Chinese girls in a sweat shop.


In my country everything is taxed that's more expensive than some 22 EUR including the shipping. Of course they would not tax it if those guys sent it marked as gift and from a personal (not business) address, but I doubt they would do that.
But who knows, maybe I'll try when I have some more money to cover all expenses. My main problem is that I cannot try it before buying, so I don't know what I will get. I believe it's a good amp, but I have to combine it with a good cabinet, and how do I do that? The selection of cabinets is not very good in my country (for example, one shop had only like two small cabinets, and they weren't good to my ears), so again I will have to be buying something blindly and overpaying. Those all reasons combined make it so difficult for me. But I'll look into that when I save some money and if I won't change my mind by that time.
#34
But for the meantime. kyle62 said that Rothwell does not provide what the real amp provide. Okay, what do you think if I just bought an MXR Distortion III / MXR Custom Badass '78 Dist or Proco Turbo Rat/Rat2? They are just plain distortions, not modelling any amp - what would you say about that? Or do you still think I shouldn't waste my money on pedals and use amps dirty channel? I tried Dist III and Turbo Rat, and I kind of liked them, but then again I am inexperienced...
#35
buy all teh pedlulz, plug them in, be happy, get less happy, buy an amp suited for what you want, be happy for longer. post a NAD on UG ??? Profit.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
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#36
All you need is a 1x12" with a greenback in it. Hell, it's just a little box, make you own cab and stick a greenback in that.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#37
Quote by InanezGuitars44
buy all teh pedlulz, plug them in, be happy, get less happy, buy an amp suited for what you want, be happy for longer. post a NAD on UG ??? Profit.


Oh yeah? How would you get something like Big Muff fuzz out of your amp's drive without a pedal?
Last edited by andriusd at Dec 12, 2011,
#38
Also, few more questions about the Snott Watt: is it safe shipping a tube amp overseas? Won't tubes break during shipping? And then would I be able to replace the tubes by myself here or will I have to send it back to them?
2) if I oreder it from them, what will I have to do to make it work with 220 V?
Last edited by andriusd at Dec 12, 2011,
#39
Just tell him what voltage when you order it. Shipping it with the valves is usually pretty safe. If he does ship it with the valves in just be sure to pull them out and plug them back in again to ensure no movement has unsettled them.
Personally, when I ship my amps overseas I pull the valves out and label them so the customer knows which one to put where. My amps are a bit odd though, the valves are on the outside of the amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#40
Quote by andriusd
Oh yeah? How would you get something like Big Muff fuzz out of your amp's drive without a pedal?

that's not the point he was making.

what he means is if you get an amp that's best suited to what you want to play in the first place then you'll be happier with your tone, pedals or not, because no matter how many pedals you use with an amp, if the amp itself doesn't sound right in the first place no pedal is going to fix that, because every pedal is going to sound like that pedal being run through whatever amp you're using. pedals can't change the way the amp is voiced.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
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