Poll: Is there a war on intellectualism?
Poll Options
View poll results: Is there a war on intellectualism?
Yes!
59 48%
No!
32 26%
Patrick Star
33 27%
Voters: 124.
Page 1 of 4
#1
So this has began to bug me recently. I am noticing that more and more often in media, the pit and other public forums that there has been an aggression towards knowledge and intellectuals. I can see where some people can be frustrated due to inability or having no access to a proper education, but to attack the idea that learning is a bad thing? This seems have become a new social movement, looking to the states how many are people are fed up with spending money on school systems. The fact that evolution is even an argument.

Anyways how do you guys feel? Do you think that knowledge and intellectuals deserve this assault?

TL;DR: There is probably no point in you reading it anyway
#2
Excellent post, I completely agree.

What I find most dangerous is ill-educated people being lead to believe that their fringe views are widely accepted, like children whose parents refuse to send them to school and "teach" them from home about how the world is 6000 years old and Obama is a socialist.
#3
OP thinks people are jelly of his "knowledge"
Quote by element4433
Be subtle with it. Don't like molest him.

And cup his balls.


Quote by blake1221
If there's anything to take away from this thread, anything at all, it's to always cup the balls.
#5
To be honest, I haven't encountered any attacks on intellectuals or knowledge.
I have met people that believe education is not necessary.
#6
I think it's always been there, the divide is just wider, and the very end points of both sides are what you hear, instead of the multitude of things in between that form the majority.
#7
Intellectuals & academia are just pawns in the Jews' gay socialist conspiracy to destroy America.
#9
Good call on the new thread. I was gonna reply to your post in the Knowledge and feces thread, but this definitely deserves its own topic of discussion.

Having participated in skateboarding culture since 00, I can honestly say that it's more acceptable culturally to keep yourself ignorant, spout out uninformed claims, and reject learning than it is to enjoy learning and try and bridge the gap between the mathematics of body movement, how it translates into other things in your head, and how you can use it to do other things.

Basically, if you're smart, you're an outsider.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#10
Yes, it's possible for me to actually feel bad or embarrassed about a good grade because of this. And it has nothing to do with my peers really, it's not like I get threatened or insulted because I got a good grade, it's society, mang.
you're a stone fox
#11
just read through some of the threads here, or watch fox news for like 15minutes. And the fringe views are becoming more popular because people enjoy seeing these people on tv. They seem passionate about what they believe and look like they have knowledge of their subject... as least until tested upon it. Intellectuals have taken a back seat to the world and instead of leading it are trying to pull the strings from the background. I saw this posted in the philosophy thread recently and I completely agree with the Dunning Kruger effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

EDIT: you beat me to it.... damn
#12
Quote by SlayingDragons
itelnletaul peple r SO DUMB

i totaly agre thoz smart peolle r soooooooooo stuppid tey tink their smrt snd loook down on us, u no?
#13
It really depends on who you hang out with. When I hang with some people knowledge is rewarded, other times it's punished. Needless to say I don't hang with people who think it's stupid to know things...

Same goes for the media, btw. If you watch fox news or read the daily mail it's obvious it's not for people who like to know things and keep an open mind, but other media rewards it.

Somewhat related, a few weeks ago I was called a camera nerd because I knew the camera and lense name for the school's field camera by the girl who was responsible for the camera equipment. She had no idea what I was talking about when I said the name... wow...
████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
Last edited by Kensai at Dec 11, 2011,
#14
Quote by the_white_bunny
your just a simpleton that cant understand strategy apparently.

Quote by the_white_bunny
all hail king of the penis sucking(i said balls. you said dick for some reason?) Isabiggles
#15
Really, in this day and age you think there is a war on knowledge? I can't imagine a "war on knowledge" ever being less prevalent than in the current era
My God, it's full of stars!
#17
Quote by Dreadnought
Really, in this day and age you think there is a war on knowledge? I can't imagine a "war on knowledge" ever being less prevalent than in the current era

The pressure of standardized testing creates an environment that encourages rote memorization rather than comprehension and application.

I'm not so sure about ignorance being socially encouraged.
#18
Quote by darkstar2466
Good call on the new thread. I was gonna reply to your post in the Knowledge and feces thread, but this definitely deserves its own topic of discussion.

Having participated in skateboarding culture since 00, I can honestly say that it's more acceptable culturally to keep yourself ignorant, spout out uninformed claims, and reject learning than it is to enjoy learning and try and bridge the gap between the mathematics of body movement, how it translates into other things in your head, and how you can use it to do other things.

Basically, if you're smart, you're an outsider.


I don't think it's anything particularly new. Much of culture tends to repeat itself, I think people ignorantly opposing learning has been documented at least since the greeks, along with much of the other claims of social degradation.
#19
The only place I feel my knowledge threatened is at work and that's because I'm smarter than all of my McManagers
Quote by element4433
Be subtle with it. Don't like molest him.

And cup his balls.


Quote by blake1221
If there's anything to take away from this thread, anything at all, it's to always cup the balls.
#20
I would say that there is a war on knowledge now. Appearing to be the smartest one in the room is no longer a good decision if your trying to win votes. People are not comfortable with having someone smarter than them in charge, so we are seeing media cater to the majority of people. Instead of intellectual leaders we have people who are dumbed down taking control and the intellectuals are feeling uncomfortable and trying to hide the fact of their intelligence.

My group of friends are largely academics, so I haven't experienced social hate for being smart since highschool and that was largely do to being in a debate class where people did not feel it was fair to use knowledge not directly related to the subject at hand
#21
Quote by MakinLattes
The pressure of standardized testing creates an environment that encourages rote memorization rather than comprehension and application.

I'm not so sure about ignorance being socially encouraged.


Yep, I disagree completely. Nothing I've seen or experienced has led me to believe there's any sort of war on knowledge.
My God, it's full of stars!
#23
I don't think it's an present today than it has been at times in the past, but it's definitely bad. Evolution tends to favor people that can passionately pretend to right right over people that have empirically tested evidence.
#24
Quote by Dreadnought
Yep, I disagree completely. Nothing I've seen or experienced has led me to believe there's any sort of war on knowledge.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, but okay. This is but a skirmish in the war against knowledge...
#26
Huh?
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#27
Quote by MakinLattes
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, but okay. This is but a skirmish in the war against knowledge...


This:

The pressure of standardized testing creates an environment that encourages rote memorization rather than comprehension and application.


And really, a skirmish in the war against knowledge? I can't tell if you're trying to be comedic with that sentence haha
My God, it's full of stars!
#28
In today's economy, you will be refused that job if you appear to talk, look, or act smarter than the person hiring you. Better dumb down, monkey.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#29
Quote by Dreadnought
Yep, I disagree completely. Nothing I've seen or experienced has led me to believe there's any sort of war on knowledge.


I can post some videos of the republican debates for Americans, or Bill C-10 for Canadians.

Those would be 2 clear and seperate, multinational examples and I am sure that you could find more with little work or our European friends could post some. I refuse to watch American television for news anymore because of the bias and the American politics is just as bad with Canada following.

Can you show me an example of facts being widely accepted without harsh criticism if they are different to peoples current ideology or beliefs
Last edited by metharian at Dec 11, 2011,
#30
It's been around forever in one form or another, and stateside I think it has been around in its current form, to a lessor extent, since the early 20th century but has become increasingly worse in the last 20-30 years. At least then there was a belief in upward mobility through education--at the turn of the century, lecture tours were as popular as concerts and fairs for working class and rural people, today they're limited pretty much to colleges.

After WWII and Korea, people actually made great use of the GI bills too, most of the vets I know coming home now don't even use any free money for college because of anti-intellectualism and a hatred of institutionalized education. Why the hell would you not take free classes?

Can people in this thread really have zero exposure to this? Obama has be criticized regularly for being too "professorial" The term intellectual, is derisive, there's a portrayal of us and them, blue collar v. professional or working v. academic (like academics aren't working to produce tangible real-world results). Hell, just step into any classroom, where the kid getting all the correct answers is derided and everyone is "too cool" to raise their hands because showing you know something isn't cool.

I'll agree that our academic institutions are largely money-making assembly lines that require considerable reform, but the idea of condemning intellectualism and learning in general is ridiculous to me
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Dec 11, 2011,
#31
Quote by metharian
Can you show me an example of facts being widely accepted without harsh criticism if they are different to peoples current ideology or beliefs


Moot point.
People will harshly criticise practically anything that they don't agree with, be it right or wrong, presented by a professor or a toddler.
#32
Quote by darkstar2466
In today's economy, you will be refused that job if you appear to talk, look, or act smarter than the person hiring you. Better dumb down, monkey.

That's not true.

It also depends very much on the employer. The kind of employer who would refuse to hire you on that basis would have refused in any economy.

It also occasionally makes sense not to hire someone who considers themselves overqualified. Even unskilled jobs tend to require some familiarisation, it can take weeks for example for an assembly line worker to operate at a decent speed. That's not to mention the hassle of finding new staff. If a person considers themselves overqualified then they'll probably leave after a while, that's bad for you as an employer.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#33
Quote by Dreadnought
This:

I disagree with your disagreement.

And really, a skirmish in the war against knowledge? I can't tell if you're trying to be comedic with that sentence haha

As always, I'm being dead serious.
#34
Quote by metharian
I can post some videos of the republican debates for Americans, or Bill C-10 for Canadians.

Those would be 2 clear and seperate, multinational examples and I am sure that you could find more with little work or our European friends could post some. I refuse to watch American television for news anymore because of the bias and the American politics is just as bad with Canada following.

Can you show me an example of facts being widely accepted without harsh criticism if they are different to peoples current ideology or beliefs


THAT'S what you mean by war on knowledge? haha

Anywho, I'll say it again... there has never been a time in our history more conducive to learning and intellectualism. Citing examples of ignorant, stubborn, or ignorantly stubborn people (of varying intelligence) in no way convinces me of some war on knowledge. In the short term there may be qualifying examples, such as the shunning of Galileo and heliocentrism or Cantor and infinity, but I think that the long-term history of human development shows an overwhelming embrace of knowledge and intellectualism as well as scientific truth.

My God, it's full of stars!
#35
Quote by SG_dave
Moot point.
People will harshly criticise practically anything that they don't agree with, be it right or wrong, presented by a professor or a toddler.


Fine you can criticize the point, however lets open this up a little and say. People are unwilling to change their stance regardless of new knowledge. Look up Munk debates and you can see the percentage of people who are unwilling to change their opinion based on new knowledge and arguments and these are typically well-off people who you would expect have a certain level of intellectual liberalism
#36
It's a conspiracy from the rich bankers to protect capitalism from communism by keeping the people uninformed./Kumanji
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#37
Quote by Dreadnought
THAT'S what you mean by war on knowledge? haha

Anywho, I'll say it again... there has never been a time in our history more conducive to learning and intellectualism. Citing examples of ignorant, stubborn, or ignorantly stubborn people (of varying intelligence) in no way convinces me of some war on knowledge. In the short term there may be qualifying examples, such as the shunning of Galileo and heliocentrism or Cantor and infinity, but I think that the long-term history of human development shows an overwhelming embrace of knowledge and intellectualism as well as scientific truth.


This.

A war of stupid people vs smart people won't go well the for stupid people.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#38
Quote by Dreadnought
THAT'S what you mean by war on knowledge? haha

Anywho, I'll say it again... there has never been a time in our history more conducive to learning and intellectualism. Citing examples of ignorant, stubborn, or ignorantly stubborn people (of varying intelligence) in no way convinces me of some war on knowledge. In the short term there may be qualifying examples, such as the shunning of Galileo and heliocentrism or Cantor and infinity, but I think that the long-term history of human development shows an overwhelming embrace of knowledge and intellectualism as well as scientific truth.



But when people criticize these policies and use research and scholarly examples they are struck down in the media. They are then rebutted with thats "thats the intellectual world not the real one" or "that works well in theory..... but not in practice"
#40
Quote by Ur all $h1t
That's not true.

It also depends very much on the employer. The kind of employer who would refuse to hire you on that basis would have refused in any economy.

It also occasionally makes sense not to hire someone who considers themselves overqualified. Even unskilled jobs tend to require some familiarisation, it can take weeks for example for an assembly line worker to operate at a decent speed. That's not to mention the hassle of finding new staff. If a person considers themselves overqualified then they'll probably leave after a while, that's bad for you as an employer.


That's true only because people can't even fathom higher education as serving some purpose other than professional qualification. God forbid I have a master's degree because I enjoyed learning about something, but I'd still rather go make $20 an hour w/ decent benefits in a factory. The person that does that would be a real intellectual, and naturally such a freak doesn't exist today in the minds of HR or anyone else.

I understand the sensibility, I'd treat applicants the same way as things stand. It's just upsetting that we live in a world where we're forced to think that way to begin with.
Page 1 of 4