#1
why I Chord can change to any chord, but II chord can not change to I chord, III, VI chord can not change to I or VII chord
I know the sound will be terrible, but why
Last edited by bryan.114 at Dec 11, 2011,
#2
you can do anything you want

if you're playing all major chords though (hard to tell because of how you wrote all numerals in caps) you're not adhering to the scale, and unless you know what's being substituted for what and why and how to manipulate it, it's hard to write (good) progressions that aren't diatonic without a good ear and a lot of luck.
modes are a social construct
#4
You are referring to circle of fifths rules. Those are rules for tonal music. They do not apply to all forms of music. In fact, most modern music it does not apply to.
#5
It's based on the circle of fifths. Each chords that you can goto more or less has a 5th note relation in it to the next chord. Theres a chart you can write out called the harmonic progression chart. You draw out the chart, the movements you can do, and your cadences.

1. I can goto any chord.

2. heres the chart as it would be drawn (Ignore the random dashes)

-----------------[IV]---[vii]

[iii] -> [VI] -> [ii] -> [V] ->


3. iii can goto either IV, or VI

4. You can then do IV or ii, which can goto V or vii or back to I (Plagal Cadence)

5. V can goto I

6. V can goto VI (Deceptive Cadence)

How it's built (A relationship of fifths)
You write the chords right to left (Except for IV and vii which go on top)

For instance I is C
then you write V to left of it (G)
Then you write ii to the left (D)
Then you write VI (A)
Then you write iii (E)
Then you right vii on top of V (B)
And finally the odd one out you write is IV ontop of ii
Quote by Venice King
Beethoven ****ed Jimi Hendrix and I was born. I make my own music.
Last edited by Ghast at Dec 11, 2011,
#6
So if you are worrying about those rules for any modern music project: don't. However, if you are simply wondering why those rules apply to tonal music (I presume you learnt about this in a music theory class or something) The chord progression is basically just the circle of fifths, plus other silly rules of what sounds "good"
Again, only applies to tonal music

sorry for making that two separate responses...that was stupid of me
#7
Quite simple. It's what your ear "expects" to hear. When you play a I - IV chord progression, the ear expects to hear the V. Same as in jazz. If I play a ii - V, then the ear expects that to resolve to a I.

Another good example is the Sus chord, which is neither major nor minor. The ear expects it to resolve to something, typically the minor or major chord of the Sus chord's root. As the others have mentioned, there are no rules when it comes to music - only what sound good and what doesn't.
#8
Quote by bryan.114

I know the sound will be terrible, but why


There is no why.

If something sounds bad, that's why the "rule" exists. There is no justification for the rule beyond the sound of the music.
#9
Quote by Darkness in Zero
You are referring to circle of fifths rules. Those are rules for tonal music. They do not apply to all forms of music. In fact, most modern music it does not apply to.


As rules they don't apply to any form of music.
#10
So that is not necessary to worry abt the rules of the chord change, am I right?
#11
Quote by HotspurJr
There is no why.

If something sounds bad, that's why the "rule" exists. There is no justification for the rule beyond the sound of the music.


Yes, I asked a silly question, u r right hotspurJr, thx
#13
There are no rules in music theory, at all. Nowhere in any theory treatise has anyone said "you can't do this". If you view theory as a set of rules your missing the point entirely and I would question whether you actually understood it at all.
#14
Quote by griffRG7321
There are no rules in music theory, at all. Nowhere in any theory treatise has anyone said "you can't do this". If you view theory as a set of rules your missing the point entirely and I would question whether you actually understood it at all.

I am not saying "music theory" I am saying "music theory CLASS"
If he is in a college music theory class and the teacher has specifically instructed them of using circle of fifths for chord progressions, then he needs to follow those rules IN THAT SPECIFIC SETTING.
Obviously, he can do whatever he wants in any musical project he does, I am simply saying that he is likely bringing up these chord progressions due to starting to learn them in a music theory class, and IF that is the case, then he pretty much has to follow those rules FOR NOW and IN THAT CLASS, regardless of whether they are rules for the real music world or not. Well, that or fail the music theory class
Trust me, I am quite aware that the rules of music theory aren't "YOU MUST ALWAYS DO THIS".....but the rules of passing a class are.
#15
Quote by Darkness in Zero
I am not saying "music theory" I am saying "music theory CLASS"
If he is in a college music theory class and the teacher has specifically instructed them of using circle of fifths for chord progressions, then he needs to follow those rules IN THAT SPECIFIC SETTING.
Obviously, he can do whatever he wants in any musical project he does, I am simply saying that he is likely bringing up these chord progressions due to starting to learn them in a music theory class, and IF that is the case, then he pretty much has to follow those rules FOR NOW and IN THAT CLASS, regardless of whether they are rules for the real music world or not. Well, that or fail the music theory class
Trust me, I am quite aware that the rules of music theory aren't "YOU MUST ALWAYS DO THIS".....but the rules of passing a class are.


i really doubt he read your replies and just responded directly to TS

hell, i haven't even read your replies
modes are a social construct
#16
Quote by Hail
i really doubt he read your replies and just responded directly to TS

hell, i haven't even read your replies


I learn guitar by myself for a year, I know the basic music theory, chord structure, scale and mod. Now Im learning hw to jam and being jam with my fd. I learn the rules of chord changing b4, so I wondering should I follow the rules?
#17
Quote by bryan.114
I learn guitar by myself for a year, I know the basic music theory, chord structure, scale and mod. Now Im learning hw to jam and being jam with my fd. I learn the rules of chord changing b4, so I wondering should I follow the rules?

>_> ?

Just smile and wave fellas.
#18
Quote by scarhawk
>_> ?

Just smile and wave fellas.


I must admit I did chuckle... but also I dont think english is this guys first language bro

To TS...yes...follow the chord changing rules when jamming. Sometimes, break the rules. If it sounds good, thats good. If it doesnt sound good, go back to the rules for a little while. Then try breaking them again. But, for where your playing is at now, follow the rules most of the time
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#19
Quote by 91RG350
I must admit I did chuckle... but also I dont think english is this guys first language bro

To TS...yes...follow the chord changing rules when jamming. Sometimes, break the rules. If it sounds good, thats good. If it doesnt sound good, go back to the rules for a little while. Then try breaking them again. But, for where your playing is at now, follow the rules most of the time


Thanks! That is very helpful!
English is not my first language so im really sorry abt that. i can read but im not good at writing...
Last edited by bryan.114 at Dec 13, 2011,
#21
First and foremost...learn songs if you wanna jam.

You will infer basic theory by ear by hearing common chord progressions, and youll have some songs to jam on.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#22
Quote by KG6_Steven
Quite simple. It's what your ear "expects" to hear. When you play a I - IV chord progression, the ear expects to hear the V. Same as in jazz. If I play a ii - V, then the ear expects that to resolve to a I.

Another good example is the Sus chord, which is neither major nor minor. The ear expects it to resolve to something, typically the minor or major chord of the Sus chord's root. ......[ ].....
I would argue that this isn't the most common or expected resolution. More often than not, the suspended 4th chord resolves to the tonic chord of the key being played. IE: D major is the V chord of G Major. The sus 4th of D major is "G", the key's tonic. Accordingly D Major > D sus4 > G Major is ubiquitous. (Key of G Major).

Inversely, I suppose you could call "Dsus4", G5add9.


For the OP. musical theory has some attributes in common with sociology. In the same way sociology attempts to explain a culture that already exists, musical theory can be used to explain music that has already been composed and played. Sort of,"oh look, that's how they did that".

Western music has many "well beaten paths" in the form of standard progressions, especially in popular music. The western ear has adapted to those paths, and expects to hear them. (As KG6_Steven has pointed out). Since music has more spectators than performers, you have to decide if you want to sooth or jar said spectators, in your choice of what the next chord might be.

You could investigate, "turn around chord progressions", and "blues chord progressions", (IE "12 bar blues"), as these form the basis for much of rock, pop and country music.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 14, 2011,
#23
if you're playing all major chords though (hard to tell because of how you wrote all numerals in caps) you're not adhering to the scale, and unless you know what's being substituted for what and why and how to manipulate it, it's hard to write (good) progressions that aren't diatonic without a good ear and a lot of luck.
#24
Dude, you can do whatever you want. There are no rules. Music theory just explains what you are doing, and makes it easier to communicate those ideas to other musicians.
1950s Reissue Fender Stratocaster
Epiphone Gold Top Les Paul
Fender Hot Rod Deville
Electro-Harmonix Metal Muff
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff
Ibanez TS-9
Boss BF-3
Boss DD-6
Wylde Signature Cry Baby
DigiTech Whammy 4