#1
Alright so I've been looking into getting a good pre amp because I desperately need a new amp (as you can probably see)

I have two friends that have mesa boogie rectifier amp heads, although I couldn't really figure out i it's the type of thing I'm going for because all they play is generic thrash (as in the entire kill em all album and the greatest hits from metallica megadeth and slayer) with them and a few melodic things that come with it, and they never really do anything else with the amp.

I myself play a mix of speed and thrash, although I try to stray away from being redundant (which is ironic considering the rectifier is used a lot in thrash) and I write a lot of more eerie melodic things, and experiment with things such as kill switches, finger picking, and guitar slides.

I was testing out one of their heads but anytime I tried to change some of the settings but apparently I was going to break it, so I didn't really get to see if it's what I wanted.

However, the rectifier is a good starting point, and I was interested in getting into preams. The thing is I don't really think there's any point to get the rectifier preamp over the dual rectifier head considering the fact that it has 2 channels where as the head has 3, and it needs a power amp. Plus I'm not even sure it's what I want in the first place, I'm looking for something that is very versatile (like the axe-fx I guess) but can do some seriously mean sounding crunch like a tube amp (which I hear the amp-fx can sound similar to but not replicate). Also in my experience the rectifier lacked the type of tone I was looking for, but I only got to play it with a cheap guitar so it might have been a pickup issue (I'm going to be using seymour duncan blackout ahb-2's)

Edit:

I guess I'm looking for something with a hell of a lot of punch, but can also play a variety of different things.
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 12, 2011,
#2
What's your budget?
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#3
Quote by Raijouta
What's your budget?


Well considering preamps are like 1-3 grand I guess somewhere around there. I'm not looking for the most expensive one though, just the one that suits me which sounds hard but I think I'm going to see what you guys list so I at least have somewhere to start.
#4
What about power amp budget
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#5
Quote by AcousticMirror
What about power amp budget


I'll probably end up saving for a power amp to (I'm patient as ****), so I guess 1-3 grand. I hear it's not as important as the preamp, but it's still extremely important as it contributes a lot to tone. Also I was thinking of getting the preamp first because my Peavy 60 has a power amp slot, so I can still use the pre amp it's just not going to have any justice done until I get a power amp.

I also was looking at some mesa demo's and I kind of like this tone and with a little modification I can probably use it for a variety of things, but I'm mainly concerned about how much punch I can get out of a good pre/power amp combo, as in brighter sounds that have a lot of power and sound good being played fast and hitting power chords.
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 12, 2011,
#6
grab a triaxis then if you are looking for the mesa sound.
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#7
Quote by AcousticMirror
grab a triaxis then if you are looking for the mesa sound.


I heard the triaxis isn't as good as the rectifier, but I also heard that the triaxis is more flexible with its sound. Although 99% of the comments I read about it where using the same Triaxis/2:90 combo, so maybe it's the power amps fault?
#8
the rectifier recording pre isn't nearly as good as just grabbing a rectifier and the triaxis is better then the rec recording pre.
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#9
Yeah I heard that to. Although I don't want to just have a 'rectifier sound' I really just want to be able to have something with a extreme amount of punch, but be able to go to play melodic stuff and work well with effects like reverb. I really am just sticking with mesa because that's what my friends play (although I think one has a marshall head) and I'm not really sure what else is out there other than the marshall jmp-1 which is recommended a lot but I couldn't really find anything that demonstrated how much of a powerful sound it put out.

I also think I'm stuck with preamps because I like the idea of the MIDI being able to switch between channels and effects rather than having 50 million pedals, but I also heard that some preamps don't work with MIDI. I also like the idea of being able to mix and match two amps to find a sound you like.
#10
well if you want midi you'll have to get a preamp equipped for midi.

the triaxis, the engl e570, the jmp1, and the CAA 3+ are the only ones I know off of the top of my head.

If you're willing to spend some good money on a pre I'd look at the CAA.

if you are looking for something around 1000 I'd check out the mako mak4.

http://makoamplification.com/?page_id=21

you'll need to get a seperate midi controller though for switching.
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#11
I will dig into these more, thanks! Also I'm still confused about MIDI. I know that some pre amps need to be equipted for it, but then if they are do they only work with specific MIDI things or what's the deal with them? I don't want to end up buying a preamp that works with midi and then get a midi system and then they're not compatible with eachother or something.
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 12, 2011,
#12
I recently bought an ENGL 530, I'd suggest taking a look at it, I like it a lot. It also has a built in 1.5 Watt power amp (loud enough to piss the neighbors off) which is good if you're still saving for a power amp. The only problem with the internal power amp is that it has a lot of white noise when not playing.
Last edited by farmosh203 at Dec 12, 2011,
#13
I was just looking at it and from what I've seen it might be what I'm getting, it sounds pretty sick.
#14
Just one note, if you do decide to use the internal power amp, you need a stereo cable (TRS) and can't use a single mono cable (otherwise it will destroy some circuitry).
#15
Quote by zomgguitarz1234
I heard the triaxis isn't as good as the rectifier, but I also heard that the triaxis is more flexible with its sound. Although 99% of the comments I read about it where using the same Triaxis/2:90 combo, so maybe it's the power amps fault?

Triaxis is for people who want a variety of Mesa sounds from the same rig. 99% of the people you see commenting on them want the one same sound. It is, however, very versatile. I can get a beautiful modern Jazz tone, Santana, 80s rock, punk or anything in between. I tend to put the settings generally how I think they should be for a given piece, then slowly tweak them over a period of time. How hard I'm pushing my 2x12 and the 2:90 power amp will have an effect on the eq I've chosen. Sometimes I'll overwrite one of my patches, but most of the time I just adjust temporarily.

If I want a larger variety with easier tweaking then the Triaxis/G-Major 2 combo, I just plug into my Oberheim GM1000. It's at least as good, despite its age.
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#16
Quote by farmosh203
Just one note, if you do decide to use the internal power amp, you need a stereo cable (TRS) and can't use a single mono cable (otherwise it will destroy some circuitry).

This is a good thing to know.

Quote by Vulcan
Triaxis is for people who want a variety of Mesa sounds from the same rig. 99% of the people you see commenting on them want the one same sound. It is, however, very versatile. I can get a beautiful modern Jazz tone, Santana, 80s rock, punk or anything in between. I tend to put the settings generally how I think they should be for a given piece, then slowly tweak them over a period of time. How hard I'm pushing my 2x12 and the 2:90 power amp will have an effect on the eq I've chosen. Sometimes I'll overwrite one of my patches, but most of the time I just adjust temporarily.

If I want a larger variety with easier tweaking then the Triaxis/G-Major 2 combo, I just plug into my Oberheim GM1000. It's at least as good, despite its age.

That's what made the triaxis appeal to me, although most of my songs where going to be thrash based so I guess the rectifier sound was important, and I'll check out that amp, thanks.
#17
Quote by zomgguitarz1234
I will dig into these more, thanks! Also I'm still confused about MIDI. I know that some pre amps need to be equipted for it, but then if they are do they only work with specific MIDI things or what's the deal with them? I don't want to end up buying a preamp that works with midi and then get a midi system and then they're not compatible with eachother or something.


well some amps are set up for midi so that they have their own midi controller inside and a board that comes with it and you can connect it to a controller board with just one cable.

with something like the triaxis you can actually program channels and stuff and switch to them with a footswitch.

if an amp doesn't have all that functionality in it you can still switch with midi by just routing the regular footswitch cables to a control board but you won't have control over as many things.
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#18
Quote by AcousticMirror
with something like the triaxis you can actually program channels and stuff and switch to them with a footswitch.


Yep, and I forgot to mention in my earlier post that the reason the Triaxis/2:90 combination is so common is that the 2:90 has switching functionality to change its tone or even go to half power mode that can be used by the Triaxis itself. You can program a patch such that the amp mode changes as well as the preamp settings when you switch to it with the MIDI footswitch.
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#19
From what i understand, the triaxis is to the mark series as the recto recording pre is to the rectifier series

I deff reccomend the triaxis, but if you h e 1-3k to spend i dont get why you dont just buy a full amp head? 3k is barely short of a mesa roadking ii brand new, you can buy almost any mesa new, alot of the well known engls, and even high end marshalls/splawns if thats what you want.

If i just missed why an amp head is a no go then triaxis for sure, or maybe an axefx and a nice powered monitor for yourself.
#20
Quote by Seanthesheep
From what i understand, the triaxis is to the mark series as the recto recording pre is to the rectifier series

I deff reccomend the triaxis, but if you h e 1-3k to spend i dont get why you dont just buy a full amp head? 3k is barely short of a mesa roadking ii brand new, you can buy almost any mesa new, alot of the well known engls, and even high end marshalls/splawns if thats what you want.

If i just missed why an amp head is a no go then triaxis for sure, or maybe an axefx and a nice powered monitor for yourself.


Good points. If extreme versatility is not needed, just get a good amp head, not an AxeFX either. Versatility is also its strong point.
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#21
Quote by Seanthesheep
From what i understand, the triaxis is to the mark series as the recto recording pre is to the rectifier series

I deff reccomend the triaxis, but if you h e 1-3k to spend i dont get why you dont just buy a full amp head? 3k is barely short of a mesa roadking ii brand new, you can buy almost any mesa new, alot of the well known engls, and even high end marshalls/splawns if thats what you want.

If i just missed why an amp head is a no go then triaxis for sure, or maybe an axefx and a nice powered monitor for yourself.


I wanted to try rack systems because of the MIDI and because you can switch out pre/power amps to find a more select tone. I'm also sort of trying to get away from the same old tone.
#22
Quote by farmosh203
I recently bought an ENGL 530, I'd suggest taking a look at it, I like it a lot. It also has a built in 1.5 Watt power amp (loud enough to piss the neighbors off) which is good if you're still saving for a power amp. The only problem with the internal power amp is that it has a lot of white noise when not playing.

the poweramp is unusable.
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#23
Quote by ibanez_keag
the poweramp is unusable.


Why do you say that, because of the noise?
#24
Quote by farmosh203
Why do you say that, because of the noise?

It sounds so much better through a separate poweramp or with IR's.

just my opinion.
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#25
Quote by zomgguitarz1234
I wanted to try rack systems because of the MIDI and because you can switch out pre/power amps to find a more select tone. I'm also sort of trying to get away from the same old tone.



Midi is in nost cases unnecessary when it cones to guitar.

Sorry if i come off as a dick but your a metal player right (i know youve listed your styles more specifically already) so am I. But realistically, you need a nice distorted rhythym sound, a nice leadtone, and a lowgain/clean tone at most really.

Lets say you take a mesa roadster. Its esstentially a dual rec on steroids. 4 chs, onboard reverb, a solo boost function, pretty much everything. Cuz unless you use an awesome preamp modeller, i dont see the point
#26
Quote by Seanthesheep
Midi is in nost cases unnecessary when it cones to guitar.

Sorry if i come off as a dick but your a metal player right (i know youve listed your styles more specifically already) so am I. But realistically, you need a nice distorted rhythym sound, a nice leadtone, and a lowgain/clean tone at most really.

Lets say you take a mesa roadster. Its esstentially a dual rec on steroids. 4 chs, onboard reverb, a solo boost function, pretty much everything. Cuz unless you use an awesome preamp modeller, i dont see the point


Well it's not just thrash for me and it's hard to explain other than for me each song has a different tone that I want for it.

Also I want to try a variety of effects for my melodic songs, which I have a few partially written so far but they're going to have different effects and not just be completely clean, except for like one. Yes I want to write some more traditional thrash sounding songs, but that's probably going to only be half of what I'm coming up with.
#28
Quote by Seanthesheep
Then youre probably best off with a nice all in one preamp like the axefx imo


Still like half of my songs are still going to be thrash which is very crunch reliant, and I hear even the axefx can't hold up to a tube amp. I might get one though if I ever start recording and decide whatever I'm using isn't the right sound.

Anyways, with the holidays coming up I can't ask any of my relatives to shell out 2 grand for a preamp, but I can get the other things such as the power conditioner, the tuner, the unit that holds it together, maybe a vent or shelf or cabinate. You don't have to be picky about tuners/power conditioners do you, and if you do for w/e reason can someone shoot me one that I can ask for.
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 12, 2011,
#29
Quote by AcousticMirror
well some amps are set up for midi so that they have their own midi controller inside and a board that comes with it and you can connect it to a controller board with just one cable.

with something like the triaxis you can actually program channels and stuff and switch to them with a footswitch.

if an amp doesn't have all that functionality in it you can still switch with midi by just routing the regular footswitch cables to a control board but you won't have control over as many things.


I think I'm starting to get it. So like a rack mount MIDI would be for the effects and things like that, where as the Preamp would have its own separate MIDI built inside if it comes with one, although heres where I'm confused:

I hear the triaxis has a better MIDI than the engl E570, and gives you more control over more things, but I can't find out what specifically other than the Triaxis can actually be programed and the E570 is limited somehow (can't figure out how, and the limitations might not be something that I will run into). Also can't find a good tone comparison between the two (if it's not side by side then it's hard to tell the difference because different users use different gear/playing style/etc.)

Also this is the video that made me interested in the E570 for the tone although the guy who recorded it said somewhere that he liked the triaxis better, but the E570 wasn't bad.

I heard a lot of demos of the triaxis and it seems to lack that sort of powerful ballsy sound that I said I was looking for, I heard that theres a amp called the Randall RM4 that rivals it in versatility and sound.

This post had the shit edited out of it, so this is basically what I'm asking now.

Anyone know if it does a better at that sort of powerful thrash sound than the triaxis? This makes it seem like the randall has a better tone for me, although I was wondering can the triaxis have a similar tone.

From what I can tell this is what the randall looks like when you buy it


You need to buy preamp modules to fill the empty slots, and the midi foot controller switches through those slots. (I'm assuming it doesn't come with any modules). Time to dive into the fun world of guitar modules I guess.

Alright so only randall makes modules, which means It's limited to buying randalls modules. I like the ultra, so far, but does anyone know if theres any modules that can sound closer to this. The ultra module sounds like it's a little warm, and I want to be able to use that for something, but is there also a brighter sounding module for faster playing?

Also does the ENGL E570 midi only switch through the 4 channels or something? I still don't get just how limited it is.
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 13, 2011,
#30
ya that randall is awesome.

i dunno about the engl. it says it can store presets.
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#33
Quote by Seanthesheep
The triaxis will nail early netallica type tones no problem, but can also get pretty epic, look up youtube videos or something fir a better idea


I did but it seems like it lacks something, I might just be looking at the wrong videos. Also I'm not interested in copying metallica's tone, or any band for that matter really. Like it's alright if it has the same tone as a band, but I'm not out to find a amp for the sole purpose of it being able to sound like a band I like.

I think this demo had a decent tone at 1:19, but it still sounds like it's missing something. Probably just that trick where you pan one guitar on one side and another on the other. Can it get more crunch than that?

Quote by Electrocuted
I'm over the moon with my Egnator


I always hear the randall being compared to this one, I might get the triaxis though because I can't really find any good vids on the modules, but I want to see just how limited the ENGL is as far as MIDI goes before I decide not to get that. I might still look into the Randall RM4 and Egnater M4 to see if they can get all the tones I want, do they use the same modules?

Digging more into the Randall vs Egnater I've found this letter like 3 times.

Ok everyone, since I've developed the Randall MTS line from the beginning with Bruce I want to fill everyone in on the differences between the Randall and Egnater models. With the amplifiers themselves, pretty everything is identical other than we use a CMEC transformer and Bruce uses a Heyboer. The specs used to build both transformers are identical and you will notice the size and weight are the same as well. We can honestly use the Heyboer or any other transformer we want, but we did not and do not notice any tone or performance difference at low or high volumes between the 2 transformers.

The tonal differences lie in the different capacitor values that we use to voice our modules specifically for the high gain player. These small capacitor value differences is what everyone hears and feels. That is why the Randall sounds tighter and more aggressive and the Egnater sounds a bit thicker but also a bit looser. Honestly everyone, Bruce uses the same Electronics supplier that we use. Where do you think the new Egnater Tourmaster came and comes from. That's right, the same factory that produces and stuffs many of our PCB boards. We all buy from and use the same part suppliers, Mouser, Digikey, etc... to stuff our circuit boards.

I just wanted to clear this up. Everyone seems to think that softer deeper low end means better build quality and better components. It's real simple, we voice our modules to our player and Bruce voices his modules to his player. I assure you that both are being made using the same high component quality.

I hope everyone finds a tone they like whether it's a Egnater or a Randall module, because we have the whole gammit covered.


Basically the difference between the two is small, and I hear the egnater has some dual something. Can anyone fill me in on this?
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 13, 2011,
#34
the egnater mod is handbuilt by bruce egnater.

also each module supports 2 channels whereas the randall only has 1 channel per preamp unit.

so the randall rm4 has 4 switchable channels fully loaded and the engater m4 has 8.

you can use the egnater modue in a randall but you can only use the first channel.
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#35
some kind of ENGL maybe?
Quote by RetroGunslinger
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#37
Quote by Seanthesheep
Engl e570 is my next suggestion then


I would go for the SE preamp
Quote by RetroGunslinger
using nines for drop C# is like stringing the guitar with spaghetti


My Colourful Rig:
ESP M-ii Deluxe
ENGL E570
Mesa/Boogie Simul 295 Stereo
Framus FR212 v30
#38
Quote by AcousticMirror
the egnater mod is handbuilt by bruce egnater.

also each module supports 2 channels whereas the randall only has 1 channel per preamp unit.

so the randall rm4 has 4 switchable channels fully loaded and the engater m4 has 8.

you can use the egnater modue in a randall but you can only use the first channel.


Alright so each module is basically like 2 modules in one.

Quote by Seanthesheep
Engl e570 is my next suggestion then


Yeah I've had my sights on it, I just want to see how good the midi is and how versatile the sound can be, which is difficult for some reason. I think the footswitch juts switches through channels or something but I can't figure out if this is the case or not.

Quote by Tunder250
I would go for the SE preamp


Isn't the ENGL E570 a SE preamp?

I guess right now I'm torn between the ENGL E570, the Mesa Triaxis, and the Egnator M4.
Mainly because for the ENGL I don't know just how versatile it is
for the Triaxis I don't know how good the distortion can get most vids on youtube sounded kind of weak
I'm not sure about any of the modules for the egnator.

EditI'm thinking of getting the ENGL E570 with a marshall 2:100 power amp to give it a little more power, although I still don't know just how limited the MIDI is in comparison to the triaxis. Can someone who owns or plays or knows how the MIDI works clarify?
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 13, 2011,
#39
Nobody can tell me how the e570 midi works or if the triaxis can get a tone as crunchy as the e570 :/

Edit: Alright so I'm getting the e570 because I heard the only thing you can't change with the midi is the EQ, which is not as much of a trade off as having a sort of weaker tone with the triaxis (from what I can tell)
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Dec 14, 2011,