#1
I was perusing mf and stumbled upon this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/seymour-duncan-zs-1n-zephyr-silver-neck-humbucker-pickup/h76474000001000
It uses silver wire instead of cu, and this makes it better somehow. Or at least it:

Permanently aligns crystal lattice of all materials and removes stresses introduced during manufacturing of raw materials and winding and final assembly of pickup.

Are there any benefits to using silver as opposed to copper? Notice benefits?
#2
i dont think i could justify spending $500 on a single pickup... interesting though. i'd like to hear how it sounds.

silver is more conductive than copper is, so a silver wire of the same length as copper will have less resistance. loosely converted, i believe that might mean that it will be of a higher output versus a copper wire of the same length...? i could be wrong. i'm really tired
#3
Quote by rokket2005


Permanently aligns crystal lattice of all materials and removes stresses introduced during manufacturing of raw materials and winding and final assembly of pickup.


I have my doubts. Copper and Silver are both FCC structures, and both will have similar resistance to dislocations. Yeah, silver should, in theory be more resistant, but everything else in your signal chain will cancel that advantage out right away.

In short, crack pipe. Not worth it.
#4
I'm sorry, I just can't take anything that uses 'crystal lattice' in its description seriously anymore.
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#5
Quote by Raijouta
I'm sorry, I just can't take anything that uses 'crystal lattice' in its description seriously anymore.

+1.

i'm sure they're great pups, but i still have about 329 different types of copper wire ones to try first.
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#6
I highly doubt they're worth spending $500.
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#7
Quote by rokket2005


Permanently aligns crystal lattice of all materials and removes stresses introduced during manufacturing of raw materials and winding and final assembly of pickup.



I seriously thought this part was a joke.

I can't imagine that it would make enough of a difference to be that noticeable.
#9
I never had any intention of buying them, just was thinking about possibly winding a few pickups in the future, and the different characteristics of using different wire.
#10
Well, inductance and capacitance (the main things that determine a pickup's sound) are completely independent of conductor composition. So I call bull shit.
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#11
Quote by mmolteratx
Well, inductance and capacitance (the main things that determine a pickup's sound) are completely independent of conductor composition. So I call bull shit.


Technically no, but in reality, the difference they offer is likely not noticeable to the human ear.
#12
In that case, if you can afford silver wire, do it. And let us know how it turns out...
#13
Quote by hawk5211
Technically no, but in reality, the difference they offer is likely not noticeable to the human ear.


Differences in conductor composition in regard to those two attributes are extremely insignificant, so I wouldn't even consider it. They're primarily determined by geometry and dielectric composition, a slight change in either of which will make a much more noticeable difference than conductor type.
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#14
Quote by mmolteratx
Differences in conductor composition in regard to those two attributes are extremely insignificant, so I wouldn't even consider it. They're primarily determined by geometry and dielectric composition, a slight change in either of which will make a much more noticeable difference than conductor type.


I agree 100%, but you can't say they are the same. Insignificant differences =/= the same.

#15
Quote by hawk5211
I agree 100%, but you can't say they are the same. Insignificant differences =/= the same.



True. Just trying to keep someone from coming in and saying those incredibly insignificant physical differences make a huge sonic difference.

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#16
Given that silver is selling for about US$31.00 per ounce, why is this thing so expensive?
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#17
Quote by FatalGear41
Given that silver is selling for about US$31.00 per ounce, why is this thing so expensive?


The same reason a Klon is $800.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
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#18
Quote by rokket2005
I was perusing mf and stumbled upon this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/seymour-duncan-zs-1n-zephyr-silver-neck-humbucker-pickup/h76474000001000
It uses silver wire instead of cu, and this makes it better somehow. Or at least it:

Permanently aligns crystal lattice of all materials and removes stresses introduced during manufacturing of raw materials and winding and final assembly of pickup.

Are there any benefits to using silver as opposed to copper? Notice benefits?


Sounds like they went to the Alexander Dumble School Of Bullshit.
#19
Quote by Raijouta
The same reason a Klon is $800.


If you find a Klon for $800, let me know so I can make profitz. Current price is ~$1500 for a gold horsie.
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#20
Man I thought you made up that crystal lattice part.... wow.

That spec sheet reads like the infomercial for those "power bands" that "enhance natural frequencies"... frequencies of what!? Light? UV rays? sound? bullshit ions? It's a bunch of scientific sounding mumbo jumbo to dupe people into buying their junk.
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#22
I honestly think Seymour Duncan is trolling.
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#23
Quote by Offworld92
I honestly think Seymour Duncan is trolling.




I think you're right. It's not april yet, is it?
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
#24
It might make some difference...Silver is actually a much better conductor than copper, but copper sees much more use because of the lower price. (trust me, i'm an electrician :P) but as far as how that would translate into sonic differences...might be better, but not $400 better I'm willing to bet.
#25
It's not that much more conductive. The electrical resistivity of copper is 16.78nOhm meters. Silver is 15.87nOhm meters. You can do the calculations but unless you have some ridiculously thin and long wire, it won't be much of a difference.

And again, inductance and capacitance are primarily what determines a pickup's frequency response due to electrical resonance and those are primarily determined by the permittivity of the dielectric and the geometry of the capacitive system. Changing your cable to something with a few pF/ft difference will make a more noticeable tonal change than using a different conductor.
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#26
I'm really hoping someone can find another reason why these pups are that expensive. I really don't picture Duncan as the type of person/company that would screw people over (but maybe I'm blind).

Can any of you smart dudes find anything in the rest of the description that would justify the cost?

------------------------------from site:

Nickel and Stainless Steel Bi-Metallic Pole Pieces
Combining these two premier transformer metals to shape and focus the magnetic field disturbed by your guitar's vibrating strings further contributes to the vivid, energetic sound of Zephyr Silver.

Glass Fiberfill Nylon Bobbin
Every dialectric material imparts its own sonic properties. In listening tests of new, more stable bobbin materials, we chose glass-filled nylon for slight advantages in definition and detail, as well as excellent material stability and consistent finish.

Cryogenic Treatment
Supercooling materials renders permanent improvement to their grain structure. Also an established enhancement in high-end audio, where cable, vacuum tubes and even entire electronic components are cryogenically treated for improvements in clarity and realism, we achieved similar results for guitar tone by cryogenically treating completed pickups, copper and silver alike. Cryo treatment enhances string definition and boosts the "way huge" potential of your guitar.

In combination they lend the premium Zephyr Silver pickups uniquely fast transients, wider but smooth frequency response, deeply rich harmonics, and unprecedented midrange tone density, with audible gains in string detail, articulation and overall definition. Slighter touch produces expressive sound, yet peak dynamics are more explosive, making your guitar feel more energetic and alive. D'Addario considers Zephyr Silver the most expressive pickups so far. They are not inexpensive, but from squeaky clean to buzzsaw grind, you'll hear and feel more power, projection and expression from any electric guitar.
Features
Pure Silver Magnet Wire
Lowest resistance of any metal known, 5.36% lower than copper
Lower losses throughout the frequency spectrum, especially in the higher ranges
Softer and more supple than copper wire
Allows more controlled and repeatable winding
The layers of the coil stack up more neatly and evenly
Less prone to breakage, more reliable
In un-potted pickups, lower microphonic levels
Lower temperature coefficient than copper by 2.56%
More compatible with lead-free, high silver content solders
Lower losses at metal transition points
Composite, Bi-Metallic Pole Pieces
Combines a 440C Stainless steel with pure nickel core
High chromium content stainless
Superior magnetic properties, higher saturation level. Extends dynamic range on the large signal end
Attractive and corrosion resistant without requiring plating
Pure nickel core
Flat hysteresis loop of nickel gives high sensitivity to small signals with the ability to subtle changes.
Senses and translates nuance better. Extends dynamic range on small signals
Cryogenic Treatment of Pickup after final assembly
Permanently aligns crystal lattice of all materials and removes stresses introduced during manufacturing of raw materials and winding and final assembly of pickup
Normalizes internal structure of the magnet(s) for more consistent gauss strength across all strings and from unit to unit
Aligns internal structure of the magnet wire, further reducing losses and increasing efficiency of pickup
Glass Filled Nylon Bobbins
Nylon is a low Q material
Less prone to microphonics, especially in un-potted pickups
Will not color the sound with "ringing" like cheaper plastics
Glass filling dramatically increases structural integrity; produces stiffer bobbin flanges
No "end flaring". Coil structure remains consistent, layer to layer. Minimizes high frequency losses and maintains balanced frequency response
#28
^^true. Like i said though, ,even if there is some difference, it really wouldn't be worth it. Until i hear one in person, get to play one, or win the lottery and have $500 to blow to afford one, I remain unconvinced.
#29
Quote by mmolteratx
If you find a Klon for $800, let me know so I can make profitz. Current price is ~$1500 for a gold horsie.


I remember when they were about $500...
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What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
#30
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I'm really hoping someone can find another reason why these pups are that expensive. I really don't picture Duncan as the type of person/company that would screw people over (but maybe I'm blind).

Can any of you smart dudes find anything in the rest of the description that would justify the cost?

------------------------------from site:

Nickel and Stainless Steel Bi-Metallic Pole Pieces
Combining these two premier transformer metals to shape and focus the magnetic field disturbed by your guitar's vibrating strings further contributes to the vivid, energetic sound of Zephyr Silver.

Glass Fiberfill Nylon Bobbin
Every dialectric material imparts its own sonic properties. In listening tests of new, more stable bobbin materials, we chose glass-filled nylon for slight advantages in definition and detail, as well as excellent material stability and consistent finish.

Cryogenic Treatment
Supercooling materials renders permanent improvement to their grain structure. Also an established enhancement in high-end audio, where cable, vacuum tubes and even entire electronic components are cryogenically treated for improvements in clarity and realism, we achieved similar results for guitar tone by cryogenically treating completed pickups, copper and silver alike. Cryo treatment enhances string definition and boosts the "way huge" potential of your guitar.

In combination they lend the premium Zephyr Silver pickups uniquely fast transients, wider but smooth frequency response, deeply rich harmonics, and unprecedented midrange tone density, with audible gains in string detail, articulation and overall definition. Slighter touch produces expressive sound, yet peak dynamics are more explosive, making your guitar feel more energetic and alive. D'Addario considers Zephyr Silver the most expressive pickups so far. They are not inexpensive, but from squeaky clean to buzzsaw grind, you'll hear and feel more power, projection and expression from any electric guitar.
Features
Pure Silver Magnet Wire
Lowest resistance of any metal known, 5.36% lower than copper
Lower losses throughout the frequency spectrum, especially in the higher ranges
Softer and more supple than copper wire
Allows more controlled and repeatable winding
The layers of the coil stack up more neatly and evenly
Less prone to breakage, more reliable
In un-potted pickups, lower microphonic levels
Lower temperature coefficient than copper by 2.56%
More compatible with lead-free, high silver content solders
Lower losses at metal transition points
Composite, Bi-Metallic Pole Pieces
Combines a 440C Stainless steel with pure nickel core
High chromium content stainless
Superior magnetic properties, higher saturation level. Extends dynamic range on the large signal end
Attractive and corrosion resistant without requiring plating
Pure nickel core
Flat hysteresis loop of nickel gives high sensitivity to small signals with the ability to subtle changes.
Senses and translates nuance better. Extends dynamic range on small signals
Cryogenic Treatment of Pickup after final assembly
Permanently aligns crystal lattice of all materials and removes stresses introduced during manufacturing of raw materials and winding and final assembly of pickup
Normalizes internal structure of the magnet(s) for more consistent gauss strength across all strings and from unit to unit
Aligns internal structure of the magnet wire, further reducing losses and increasing efficiency of pickup
Glass Filled Nylon Bobbins
Nylon is a low Q material
Less prone to microphonics, especially in un-potted pickups
Will not color the sound with "ringing" like cheaper plastics
Glass filling dramatically increases structural integrity; produces stiffer bobbin flanges
No "end flaring". Coil structure remains consistent, layer to layer. Minimizes high frequency losses and maintains balanced frequency response


Cryogenic treatments can be pretty expensive, but nowhere near that much. Everything else is pretty run of the mill. Benefits are extremely debatable as well. No real research has ever been done into it with regards to audio because honestly, it's ****ing stupid.

Quote by denied
Silver non-horsie 7-800, no?


Last silver one I saw was at $1100, though I dunno if it sold.
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#31
I like how there's nothing in the description about what the pickup sounds like, only how much better than other pickups it is
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Line 6 Pod HD500X
#32
Quote by Offworld92
I like how there's nothing in the description about what the pickup sounds like, only how much better than other pickups it is


Haunting mids.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
#33
i did a thread on these a while back. (on a different site)

this is what Frank Falbo, VP of Product Development at SD had to say about them. (i felt kind of honored that he chimed in actually.)

"Even with today's high silver cost the fabrication of the silver into the wire that we spec is still a bigger percentage. These are very costly pickups to produce and very fairly priced. There is no R&D payback baked in. (meaning they are not like new technology that is expensive at first, before becoming more affordable) This is simply the price of these pickups, in the same spirit of fairness with which Seymour Duncan has always treated you.

Everyone who has heard them (which is now in the hundreds) has had the same response. If they were optimistic their hopes were substantiated. If they were skeptical they were converted. I can't really translate that experience over the internet effectively. Just remember we're not telling you that you have to buy them or even to like them. Even some the skeptics who were converted said it's not "their sound" but they see what we're talking about. We simply offer them along with whatever words we can think of to use to get you to understand the experience. Yes, they're that good. Not for everyone, but yeah it's the real deal.

And we definitely don't mind the jokes. We get it."
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