#1
Hey UG, so I am in need of some assistance when it comes to removing fizz from my recordings. I currently use a sm57 plugged into a UX2 to record my nylon guitar. The main problem is that I get a significant amount of fizz from this set up and if I get rid of the fizz, I have to sacrifice volume. Is there any way to fix this issue with new software, or will I have to buy something to correct this?
http://www.recording-microphones.co.uk/MP3/Nylon%20MP3s/SM57.mp3
This is supposedly done with a 57 and while I love the sound, I do realize that I'd have to invest more to get it, something I'm trying not to do.

I know I'm a noob, any help would be appreciated
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#2
What do you mean by 'fizz'? Is the volume too high and causing the track to clip/distort?

If it's an acoustic guitar there shouldn't be 'fizz'. It's either you have the gain too high and the guitar is distorting (Going over 0.0db) or you turn your gain up and you get lots of 'hiss' from the environment you're in.

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For recording an acoustic guitar with a '57 you would want it close to the fretboard. Place the mic parallel to the 12th fret of the guitar maybe 3" away and turn your gain up so that the guitar input is -18.00db at its peak (When you SLAM the strings).

When you record it's barely going to be there as far as the peaks go; to boost it up to normal level put a compressor plugin on the track and and bring the gain on the compressor up to a good volume level (But make sure it doesn't distort).

For an extra touch add a reverb plugin with just a slightly mixed in medium reverb, something to give it some 'space'. Since you're close mic'ing the guitar the room won't be picked up very much and theres going to be little ambience; the reverb or delay help to add the background back in.

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You can always record a little quieter and then boost the volume of something but once something is recorded too loud you CANNOT fix the problem. It will be hell to do anything with. Try to record everything between -18 to -10db on the meter in whatever program you're using. This gives you 'headroom', ie the peaks/transients (spikes) in the audio have some room and won't distort or clip anything. Unless you have speakers capable of loudly amplifying the signal you'll need to boost the whole mixes volume to hear it well. Once again, put a compressor (You can turn the actual compression off even if you want) and turn up the gain until it's a comfortable level. This adjusts the gain without touching the faders in your DAW, so you can still fine tune instead of pushing the Fades ALlllll the way up.
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If you're looking for a DAW: http://www.reaper.fm/download.php (free, after 30 days the trial ends but they don't cripple the software, theres just a splash screen)

If you're looking for cool instrument plugins or more plugins for Reaper: www.kvraudio.com
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Last edited by Ghast at Dec 21, 2011,
#3
Why do you want it between -18 & -10? Ive always heard you should record close to 0 db at the peak and then adjust level to taste
#4
Quote by z4twenny
Why do you want it between -18 & -10? Ive always heard you should record close to 0 db at the peak and then adjust level to taste


You should, but it's hard to get a dynamic mic to that point when recording acoustic guitars, especially with classical guitars, since they are slightly less loud than a normal brass string acoustic. Typically you should just record it as loud as possible without feedback, back off a few decibels, then boost it other ways, such as a EQ boost, if you want to you can compress it slightly, or use a clean boost.


I hear no fizz sir, it sounds excellent for a SM-57 too, I don't know what you are complaining about.
#5
may i add if you record guitar, or basically anthing with the sm57 you are going to need some serious EQ to take away some low's and raise some highs. This mic has the tendency to make the bass sound too bassy... imo
#6
Quote by ridicilus
may i add if you record guitar, or basically anthing with the sm57 you are going to need some serious EQ to take away some low's and raise some highs. This mic has the tendency to make the bass sound too bassy... imo


I have the exact opposite problem with the SM-57, not enough lows, too much highs, not enough mids. Most likely just the way I record though.
#7
Quote by ethan_hanus
I have the exact opposite problem with the SM-57, not enough lows, too much highs, not enough mids. Most likely just the way I record though.

We should team up, i guess we would get the mic to sound perfect :P seriously how do you record it? And do you monitor it through proper speakers? When i play anything through my krk- vxt6 speakers i hear way too much low and have to eq like crazy. Basically i use the sm57 mic for quick recordings/quick ideas and then i'll use my neumann for the real deal.
#8
Quote by ridicilus
We should team up, i guess we would get the mic to sound perfect :P seriously how do you record it? And do you monitor it through proper speakers? When i play anything through my krk- vxt6 speakers i hear way too much low and have to eq like crazy. Basically i use the sm57 mic for quick recordings/quick ideas and then i'll use my neumann for the real deal.


The redneck way, I run the mic into a AudioChoice QM4 mic amp, line out the signal to the line in on my soundcard, and mix it in Reaper.


This is what my acoustic recordings sound like doing this method, just having the mic sit on my desk pointed at the base of the neck of my acoustic.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ethan_hanus/music/all/play1015570
#9
Quote by ethan_hanus
The redneck way, I run the mic into a AudioChoice QM4 mic amp, line out the signal to the line in on my soundcard, and mix it in Reaper.


This is what my acoustic recordings sound like doing this method, just having the mic sit on my desk pointed at the base of the neck of my acoustic.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ethan_hanus/music/all/play1015570

Yeah it sounds very very crisp in those recordings. Especially on my laptop speakers. Didnt check it in the studio though. You really need some bass there It might be because im running it trough an tube amp...
#10
Quote by ridicilus
Yeah it sounds very very crisp in those recordings. Especially on my laptop speakers. Didnt check it in the studio though. You really need some bass there It might be because im running it trough an tube amp...


The tube amp may do it. I have a bass guitar in the background to fill, laptop speakers don't do it justice. I'm using an actual mic mixer amp without using a interface into my computer...hence, redneck way.
#11
Quote by ethan_hanus
The tube amp may do it. I have a bass guitar in the background to fill, laptop speakers don't do it justice. I'm using an actual mic mixer amp without using a interface into my computer...hence, redneck way.

lol do laptop speakers do good to anything? Yeah i'll make myself a little cable tomorrow with a jack and mini jack so i can record straight from guitar to audio card, see how that sounds.. but the weird thing is, when i use my neuman mic, which is like 1000x the price of the sm57 there is no bass problem when recording the guitars.... so i dont get it on that point cuz then, the problem should be the sm57... or maybe you just shouldnt use the sm57 in conjunction with a tube pre amp
#12
Quote by ridicilus
lol do laptop speakers do good to anything? Yeah i'll make myself a little cable tomorrow with a jack and mini jack so i can record straight from guitar to audio card, see how that sounds.. but the weird thing is, when i use my neuman mic, which is like 1000x the price of the sm57 there is no bass problem when recording the guitars.... so i dont get it on that point cuz then, the problem should be the sm57... or maybe you just shouldnt use the sm57 in conjunction with a tube pre amp


Well, technically I used a SM-58 without the ball end on it.

And recording line in on the sound card is not the best way, you get alot of noise, and a hugh loss in mids, and in general sound quality. The best my sound card will do is 16 bit recording. It sucks.

I've always heard the SM-57's have excellent bass and mid response, hence why metal producers like to use them in everything. Maybe you're not getting the mic angle right with it.
#13
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, technically I used a SM-58 without the ball end on it.

And recording line in on the sound card is not the best way, you get alot of noise, and a hugh loss in mids, and in general sound quality. The best my sound card will do is 16 bit recording. It sucks.

I've always heard the SM-57's have excellent bass and mid response, hence why metal producers like to use them in everything. Maybe you're not getting the mic angle right with it.


I guess... but even when recording vocals, the bass part is wayyyy too much. The other day i was recording a girl and she kinda sounded like a male bass-wise. And with vocals, close miked there's no such thing as angle. And still i have to add some serious high and cut some serious lows. I dunno,,, i like the sound of the mic but i dont like the workaround, i figure on an expensive system it just should just sound perfect which it doesnt. My neumann does sound perfect on the same setup... so i guess its a mic thing
#14
Quote by ridicilus
I guess... but even when recording vocals, the bass part is wayyyy too much. The other day i was recording a girl and she kinda sounded like a male bass-wise. And with vocals, close miked there's no such thing as angle. And still i have to add some serious high and cut some serious lows. I dunno,,, i like the sound of the mic but i dont like the workaround, i figure on an expensive system it just should just sound perfect which it doesnt. My neumann does sound perfect on the same setup... so i guess its a mic thing



It's prolly the setup you use, every SM-57 I've heard, even on our soundboards at the church sound excellent for both vocals and instruments. Your Neumann prolly reacts better to your setup.

Do you use the SM-58 for your vocals? The pop filter cuts some of the lows, but I hear the SM-57 and 58 kinda sucks for recording vocals to begin with, and most people would never use them for vocals.
#15
Quote by ethan_hanus
It's prolly the setup you use, every SM-57 I've heard, even on our soundboards at the church sound excellent for both vocals and instruments. Your Neumann prolly reacts better to your setup.

Do you use the SM-58 for your vocals? The pop filter cuts some of the lows, but I hear the SM-57 and 58 kinda sucks for recording vocals to begin with, and most people would never use them for vocals.

lol i guess that would explain why i hardly use it on vocals i'm gonna try some different angles with the sm57 tomorrow and have a little sm57 vs neumann thing going for guitar
#16
Quote by ridicilus
lol i guess that would explain why i hardly use it on vocals i'm gonna try some different angles with the sm57 tomorrow and have a little sm57 vs neumann thing going for guitar


I'd like to hear that, $100 mic VS $1000 mic.
#17
Quote by ethan_hanus
I'd like to hear that, $100 mic VS $1000 mic.

me too! Well maybe,,,, because i am used to the neumann sound i think the sm57 is having too much bass? could that be? I mean if you got used to drinking the best wines you dont like a 10$ wine which you would favour before
#18
Quote by ridicilus
me too! Well maybe,,,, because i am used to the neumann sound i think the sm57 is having too much bass? could that be? I mean if you got used to drinking the best wines you dont like a 10$ wine which you would favour before


Very true, but I bet you'll find the SM-57 does a raw metal tone much better than the Neumann could. The Neumann can do everything you know, otherwise they wouldn't have other mics.
#19
Quote by ethan_hanus
Very true, but I bet you'll find the SM-57 does a raw metal tone much better than the Neumann could. The Neumann can do everything you know, otherwise they wouldn't have other mics.

I never play metal but i'll try I guess it will sound too thin on the neumann, since it has its little way to thin things out i'll definatly try both tomorrow shame it is 4.15 at night here, i cant go and do it know the neighbors wont like that i guess
#20
Quote by ridicilus
I never play metal but i'll try I guess it will sound too thin on the neumann, since it has its little way to thin things out i'll definatly try both tomorrow shame it is 4.15 at night here, i cant go and do it know the neighbors wont like that i guess


Lucky I live in a big house where my neighbors are a decent ways away. I'm too lazy to get my guitar from downstairs though...and my mic is at the church, so all I can do is line out of my Valveking.

I'll be looking forward to your test.
#21
Quote by ethan_hanus
Lucky I live in a big house where my neighbors are a decent ways away. I'm too lazy to get my guitar from downstairs though...and my mic is at the church, so all I can do is line out of my Valveking.

I'll be looking forward to your test.

any recommendations next to metal? yeah that is kinda handy to have a house without neigbours... i'm glued to the headphones these times of day
#22
Quote by ridicilus
any recommendations next to metal? yeah that is kinda handy to have a house without neigbours... i'm glued to the headphones these times of day



Well, I have neighbors, I live in the suburbs, it's just their house is about 50-60 feet away from mine.

For metal...um, don't use too much gain when recording, get some tight lows, lots of mids, and smooths highs, since the SM-57 will eat some of those mids, and accentuate the highs. Try to get the gain punchy, and clear, almost like a heavy crunch, and not a fully saturated tone, and most importantly to a metal tone...double tracking.

I tend to compress my guitar only a bit, I have a quick attack and a release of 182 milliseconds, and low pass at around 12k to 16 k hz since the SM-57 induces alot of fizz at those frequencies. I could prolly compress it better to get a better balance of the palm mutes and open chords, but I no like jacking with compressors.

High passing at the right hz and adding a bass guitar is also very important to getting a punchy full metal tone....otherwise it sounds like Pantera without a bass guitar
#23
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, I have neighbors, I live in the suburbs, it's just their house is about 50-60 feet away from mine.

For metal...um, don't use too much gain when recording, get some tight lows, lots of mids, and smooths highs, since the SM-57 will eat some of those mids, and accentuate the highs. Try to get the gain punchy, and clear, almost like a heavy crunch, and not a fully saturated tone, and most importantly to a metal tone...double tracking.

I tend to compress my guitar only a bit, I have a quick attack and a release of 182 milliseconds, and low pass at around 12k to 16 k hz since the SM-57 induces alot of fizz at those frequencies. I could prolly compress it better to get a better balance of the palm mutes and open chords, but I no like jacking with compressors.

High passing at the right hz and adding a bass guitar is also very important to getting a punchy full metal tone....otherwise it sounds like Pantera without a bass guitar

Seems like i'm gonna have some fun tomrrow :P ps, ur not gonna play metal in church right?
#24
Quote by ridicilus
Seems like i'm gonna have some fun tomrrow :P ps, ur not gonna play metal in church right?


I've done all sorts of crazy things in church. I used to play in the youth band(now in the adult service). I've played in Eb, drop D, Drop C, drop B, even drop A# while everyone else is playing in standard. Me and the pianist would totally rewrite some of the songs to be heavy, or change them, but keep the chords the same...I have examples of how I've done that in my profile.

But in my normal Sunday service I use my custom modded Yamaha GA-10 SS amp with my hand built Liquid Drive pedal as my dirt, in E standard, can't play metal for the old people. I built up the amp and built the pedal myself...I like to take crap and make it better.
#25
Quote by ethan_hanus
I've done all sorts of crazy things in church. I used to play in the youth band(now in the adult service). I've played in Eb, drop D, Drop C, drop B, even drop A# while everyone else is playing in standard. Me and the pianist would totally rewrite some of the songs to be heavy, or change them, but keep the chords the same...I have examples of how I've done that in my profile.

But in my normal Sunday service I use my custom modded Yamaha GA-10 SS amp with my hand built Liquid Drive pedal as my dirt, in E standard, can't play metal for the old people. I built up the amp and built the pedal myself...I like to take crap and make it better.

omg i will check out that profile and will probably worship that stuff forever lol church people that can actually change stuff... that's like the antichrist writing music at least to my church :P
#26
Quote by ridicilus
omg i will check out that profile and will probably worship that stuff forever lol church people that can actually change stuff... that's like the antichrist writing music at least to my church :P


Well, it was the youth group, and since we are a small church who's building is a giant gym, we are kinda not very strict, plus we are musicians and like to change things for fun.

It's not like, metal metal, kinda more of a heavy 90's alternative rock type tone...I'm heavily influenced by the 90's early 2000's alternative rock era.
#27
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, it was the youth group, and since we are a small church who's building is a giant gym, we are kinda not very strict, plus we are musicians and like to change things for fun.

It's not like, metal metal, kinda more of a heavy 90's alternative rock type tone...I'm heavily influenced by the 90's early 2000's alternative rock era.


Well i'm from holland, to me, any band playing rock kinda stuff in a church deserves credit hell, up here there's no church bands anymore anyway. Wished they were
#28
Quote by ridicilus
Well i'm from holland, to me, any band playing rock kinda stuff in a church deserves credit hell, up here there's no church bands anymore anyway. Wished they were


That kinda sucks, they are doing their best to kill all Christian music here though, or anything to do with religion, kinda gets on my nerves. I'm glad there's a good, and I hate to say this, liberal Christian community out here in Austin.

My pastor is a woman, which would drive any Baptist up a wall in seconds.
#29
Quote by ethan_hanus
That kinda sucks, they are doing their best to kill all Christian music here though, or anything to do with religion, kinda gets on my nerves. I'm glad there's a good, and I hate to say this, liberal Christian community out here in Austin.

My pastor is a woman, which would drive any Baptist up a wall in seconds.

I guess they kinda accomplished that up here... there's no christian bands here. I love this american church thing where people actually go to church and there are church bands.... that's like, miles ahead of the thing we gots here.
#30
Quote by ridicilus
I guess they kinda accomplished that up here... there's no christian bands here. I love this american church thing where people actually go to church and there are church bands.... that's like, miles ahead of the thing we gots here.


I didn't know that there was anything else. I've always gone to church where there was some kind of worship band playing live. Do ya'll not even have worship bands in church anymore?

Usually the worships bands wont play outside the church, but a while ago, we had a fair out in Liberty Hill that the local churches sponsored where all the local church bands came out and played a concert. Our band didn't play because...well, we are not the best, and two of our members are still in high school.
#31
Quote by ethan_hanus
I didn't know that there was anything else. I've always gone to church where there was some kind of worship band playing live. Do ya'll not even have worship bands in church anymore?

Usually the worships bands wont play outside the church, but a while ago, we had a fair out in Liberty Hill that the local churches sponsored where all the local church bands came out and played a concert. Our band didn't play because...well, we are not the best, and two of our members are still in high school.


Churches have opening hours up here, and you have to get lucky to get in. There is no bands or anything, just some silly organ. The whole church-thing is not here, i know how it is in america since i have been there once or twice, no such thing here. Really a shame if you ask me, i know a band like lifehouse started out as a church band. People here love lifehouse, not knowing a band like that couldnt get anywhere in holland
#32
Quote by ridicilus
Churches have opening hours up here, and you have to get lucky to get in. There is no bands or anything, just some silly organ. The whole church-thing is not here, i know how it is in america since i have been there once or twice, no such thing here. Really a shame if you ask me, i know a band like lifehouse started out as a church band. People here love lifehouse, not knowing a band like that couldnt get anywhere in holland


That's pretty sad, but Europe has been kinda devoid of religion for awhile now, it's a shame America is becoming like that.

I've also noticed that it's getting harder and harder for Christian bands to make it big in America too. Nationally we are loosing our religion, but locally it's still pretty strong. Maybe you can try and make a change in your community, shouldn't be to hard.
#33
Quote by ethan_hanus
That's pretty sad, but Europe has been kinda devoid of religion for awhile now, it's a shame America is becoming like that.

I've also noticed that it's getting harder and harder for Christian bands to make it big in America too. Nationally we are loosing our religion, but locally it's still pretty strong. Maybe you can try and make a change in your community, shouldn't be to hard.

in this community the only thing that makes money is hard rock, i am very glad i am working as a songwriter for a national purpose. So how about a band like lifehouse? They have started out christian? Why did they get where they are.... yeah they are the only ones that actually got into dutch territory... :P

Up here we have another problem, we have the problem nobody likes real music. Everybody likes dutch stuff like,,, jan smit aGoogle it, and i'm sure you will throw up even though you dont understand a word he is saying. Thats what i have to fight against :P
#34
Quote by ridicilus
in this community the only thing that makes money is hard rock, i am very glad i am working as a songwriter for a national purpose. So how about a band like lifehouse? They have started out christian? Why did they get where they are.... yeah they are the only ones that actually got into dutch territory... :P

Up here we have another problem, we have the problem nobody likes real music. Everybody likes dutch stuff like,,, jan smit aGoogle it, and i'm sure you will throw up even though you dont understand a word he is saying. Thats what i have to fight against :P


Yeah, Lifehouse kinda went downhill, but they did make some good stuff. Nobody is perfect though.

I'm sure there are more people like yourself, there always is, you just have to find them, or let them find you. And who says you gotta bring in other peoples music? At our church we actually write a few of our worship songs, and use them for just us, and we also use popular songs, but change the keys and such.

If there's a will, there's a way, if you just start doing it out of fun, who knows, it may catch on, may not, as long as you are having fun with it who cares?

Switch Foot is still pretty popular, Flyleaf, Firelight, and a bunch of others I can't name right now cause I'm tired.

Idk, you'll figure something out. I gotta go to bed, busy day tomorrow. Still looken forward to that mic demonstration.

All the best man.
#35
Lifehouse? Are they national recording artists? I know that Casting Crowns had started out as a Church band. Hillsong also. But Hillsong is international. They originate in Sydney,Australia.
#36
Quote by Ghast
What do you mean by 'fizz'? Is the volume too high and causing the track to clip/distort?

If it's an acoustic guitar there shouldn't be 'fizz'. It's either you have the gain too high and the guitar is distorting (Going over 0.0db) or you turn your gain up and you get lots of 'hiss' from the environment you're in.




Yeah I meant hiss, bad wording I guess. Thank You though I definite am going to take everything you said into consideration

Quote by ethan_hanus
You should, but it's hard to get a dynamic mic to that point when recording acoustic guitars, especially with classical guitars, since they are slightly less loud than a normal brass string acoustic. Typically you should just record it as loud as possible without feedback, back off a few decibels, then boost it other ways, such as a EQ boost, if you want to you can compress it slightly, or use a clean boost.


I hear no fizz sir, it sounds excellent for a SM-57 too, I don't know what you are complaining about.



That's not my recording, that's the sound I was hoping to get

Thanks for hijacking my thread though, you bastards I appreciate the help, when the sun comes up here, I'll definitely try everything suggested
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more