#1
I went into Birmingham (2nd biggest city the UK) with my mum a couple of days ago. My mum grew up in the inner city areas about 40/50 years ago. We were driving around her old haunts and the houses were massive, but so run down. These areas are areas that were so posh and up market 40/50 years ago, now they're run down and awash with crime.

How can such a nice area decline so rapidly?

Now, I made this thread as it could spark a bit of a debate. We're not allowed to mention race these days without offending somebody, but in correlation with these areas becoming more run down, the rates of inner city immigration have risen.

I'm on neither side in this debate, but I'm just intrigued what people's opinions are on this quite, touchy subject.
#2
I think it's pretty obvious that poor immigrants are moving to areas where housing is cheaper, and with poverty comes crime. What's not to get? It has little to do with race.
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#4
Inner city. Posh.

lulz. your mother either has rose tinted nostalgia glasses on or when she lived there the city was smaller and that area was actually the suburbs.
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#6
Miami has seen/continues to see a similar occurrence ever since Hurricane Andrew in 1992. An exodus of those whose houses were ruined, or whatever other reason, and an influx of less economically well-off people to move into the now massively cheaper land and housing. Those who couldn't afford to move out were necessarily forced to stay in the area, and the increasing immigration, coupled with the lower overall income of the majority of immigrant families, causes the inner city of Miami, moreso than most of the rest of South Florida, to be predominantly immigrant and "minority" populations.
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#7
Quote by theguitarist
Inner city. Posh.

lulz. your mother either has rose tinted nostalgia glasses on or when she lived there the city was smaller and that area was actually the suburbs.


She lived in Handsworth in Birmingham. I don't know how much you know about it, but it used to be a nice area.

I'm not saying it's about race
#8
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
She lived in Handsworth in Birmingham. I don't know how much you know about it, but it used to be a nice area.

I'm not saying it's about race



Then why even mention it in OP?
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#9
Quote by StewieSwan
I think it's pretty obvious that poor immigrants are moving to areas where housing is cheaper, and with poverty comes crime. What's not to get? It has little to do with race.


This.
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#10
1st generation in area: "This is great!"
2nd + 3rd generations: "Actually, it isn't, let's turn to crime to gain social status!"

That, basically, IMO.
#11
property prices are higher the nearer to the city centre you get. Therefore they're more likely to be rented out rather than sold outright. Those with lower income usually seek cheap rented accommodation and up until quite recently the only way to get that was via a small apartment in a larger building e.g. converted Victorian housing.

Communities formed as they shared characteristics whether it's race, religion or the fact that there aren't any alternatives. And where low income is crime is usually to follow.

Combine that with a lack of investment due to the reputation of the area and a lack of social mobility and you have a problem that compounds itself.
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#13
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
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Which is already happening lol. You included that disclaimer as a way to avoid a situation which is now happening because of the disclaimer.

*smokes pipe* Interesting...
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#15
I always lol how Tower Hamlets borough in London is ridiculously crappy, but it houses all the big business/bank HQs.
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#18
I wish inner Sydney was declining, then I'd be able to afford to live there. But all the ****ing yuppies, yummy mummies and moneyed libtards have come in and pushed up rent prices to ridiculous levels.

Round here it's the outer suburbs where you get more crime - been like that since the 90s.
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#19
Quote by shadow__666
I wish inner Sydney was declining, then I'd be able to afford to live there. But all the ****ing yuppies, yummy mummies and moneyed libtards have come in and pushed up rent prices to ridiculous levels.

Round here it's the outer suburbs where you get more crime - been like that since the 90s.

It's a bit like that in Leicester. I mean the city centre is okay it has some run down buildings that are all being knocked down. And out of the whole city centre only two parts are the bad estates/areas. It's actually the suburbs which have the council estates with bad reputations (even though they're not all so bad).
#21
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#22
Quote by theguitarist
Inner city. Posh.

lulz. your mother either has rose tinted nostalgia glasses on or when she lived there the city was smaller and that area was actually the suburbs.

Quote by StewieSwan
I think it's pretty obvious that poor immigrants are moving to areas where housing is cheaper, and with poverty comes crime. What's not to get? It has little to do with race.

Both of these. That's basically an /thread.


Quote by TEK34
1st generation in area: "This is great!"
2nd + 3rd generations: "Actually, it isn't, let's turn to crime to gain social status!"

That, basically, IMO.

What? Really? You're either trolling or completely and utterly retarded. Turning to a life of crime to gain social status?

Okay, you're definitely trolling. Nobody is that retarded.
#23
I know Birmingham fairly well and yes, some of the houses are massive and have great gardens in inner city Birmingham, however as the richer people moved to the country and workers moved to cities the big houses were slowly abondoned, allowing for immigrants to come in and house their massive families.

Nowadays immigrant areas have higher crime rates and are generally poorer areas, meaning that houses that require maintenance no longer get what they require.

People are moving back into the cities more due to modern life and convenience which should hopefully mean some of the houses get restored. Some of them look really good and could be very nice homes if it wasn't for the population of the area and the fact they are in a state of disrepair.
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#24
Quote by StewieSwan
I think it's pretty obvious that poor immigrants are moving to areas where housing is cheaper, and with poverty comes crime. What's not to get? It has little to do with race.


It has to do with race in that immigrants are significantly more likely to be poor than non- immigrants in modern England. I think it's a pretty important element of any discussion about poverty.
#25
Quote by Butt Rayge
Both of these. That's basically an /thread.


What? Really? You're either trolling or completely and utterly retarded. Turning to a life of crime to gain social status?

Okay, you're definitely trolling. Nobody is that retarded.


As a complete analysis it's stupid but the fact that criminal acts confer social status within certain groups isn't controversial in itself. Of course it still doesn't provide an explanation for why this is the case (most likely reasons given above such as poverty and exclusion from wider society).
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#26
Quote by leeb rocks
As a complete analysis it's stupid but the fact that criminal acts confer social status within certain groups isn't controversial in itself. Of course it still doesn't provide an explanation for why this is the case (most likely reasons given above such as poverty and exclusion from wider society).

Nobody gets from poverty to high society by selling crack or mugging cunts though. That's just ridiculous.

Being the top dog in the land of the poor (if that's what he was suggesting) is hardly an change in social status, anyway.
#28
Quote by Butt Rayge
Nobody gets from poverty to high society by selling crack or mugging cunts though. That's just ridiculous.

Being the top dog in the land of the poor (if that's what he was suggesting) is hardly an change in social status, anyway.


Except social status isn't best understood as a single continuum across all society. Different social groups and settings assign different importance to certain values. The result is a multitude of statuses corresponding to different social settings. A Masters in art history will get you as little status in a dilapidated and violence ridden estate as being a hard man will get you in the same art department (a nasty generalization but I can't be bothered thinking of a less stereotypical example).
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#29
I live 5 mins away from Handsworth and it is a shithole, same with my area(Newtown), and Lozells.

If you want to find a nice place you'll have to go to the outskirts.
#30
I went to Manhatten a couple of weeks ago and I couldn't believe how much they cleaned that place up. Only saw one homeless guy the entire time I was there.

Harlem, well it always looks like that.
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#31
Has the inner city ever been nice?
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#32
Quote by maggot9779
I live 5 mins away from Handsworth and it is a shithole, same with my area(Newtown), and Lozells.

If you want to find a nice place you'll have to go to the outskirts.


You can tell the houses used to be nice though.