#1
I am really motivated to learn how to sing better. And i will try to sing for about an hour everyday, maybe even hour and a half.

Of course, there are going to be some off days when i wont be singing, but
do you think it would be a good idea?
#2
yup! And better yet, learn to sing correctly so you don't ruin your vocal chords. Best way to learn is join a choir and speak with the director. There are usually several choirs around ever town. Schools, churches, community choirs etc..... the directors are very knowledgable and will usually respect the type of music you are trying to sing. It will be easier than singing at home by yourself with no one to give you constructive feedback.
#3
Frequent and regular practice are always good things in order to develop a skill.

However, you need to know what to practice. It's not about practicing songs and singing exercises. It's about learning how to produce the voice correctly and strictly adhering to those principles and techniques using exercises and songs to re-enforce your efficacy in their implementation.

Spending an hour and a half a day practising poor technique is a great way to ruin your voice.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#4
that's right but you develop technique with practicing exercises and sometimes just by singing songs.. and i know exercises which help with breathing, pitch, cord closure...

in my opinion you can ruin your voice if you're doing it wrong and it hurts..

but what do you actually recommend? what should i do to improve technique?
and i wont get lessons, because it's expensive and in my are the teachers are not that good, all i can do is, buy some kind of a vocal course..
#5
Quote by rockstar9999
that's right but you develop technique with practicing exercises and sometimes just by singing songs..


If you are focusing on using proper technique while you do them. Simply singing the sequences of notes associated with the exercises will not help you to learn technique.

Quote by rockstar9999

in my opinion you can ruin your voice if you're doing it wrong and it hurts..


Absolutely!

Quote by rockstar9999

but what do you actually recommend? what should i do to improve technique?
and i wont get lessons, because it's expensive and in my are the teachers are not that good, all i can do is, buy some kind of a vocal course..


Singing is not an academic skill that you can learn on line or through videos. It is a coordinated series of actions - much like swimming or driving a car. I wouldn't want to learn either of those skills from a video.

Secondly, knowing whether or not you are doing it correctly requires one to rely on tonal characteristics and biofeedback. You can't really get either of those things from a video.

How do you know the teachers in your area aren't that good?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#6
well, i've tried a few lessons, and pretty much all they do is show me some exercises for warm ups and then we learn a song. but i can do the same thing at home..and some of my friends have the same experience...

i know it sounds stupid learning online, but i think its possible. i learned guitar the same way and im pretty good at it. And there are some really good singers who are self taught as well.

here's a vocal course that im willing to buy. it sounds really good. plus, he shows the correct techniques and exercises to develop a powerful voice...

http://kentamplinvocalacademy.com/

what do you think about it?
#7
Quote by rockstar9999
well, i've tried a few lessons, and pretty much all they do is show me some exercises for warm ups and then we learn a song. but i can do the same thing at home..and some of my friends have the same experience...


By the sounds of things, you're making a good call on passing on those ones. What is absolutely critical in finding a teacher is finding someone who will actually help you produce your voice correctly. It's not about exercises. It's not about songs. It's about doing something different that you weren't doing before so as to achieve the goal of producing the voice correctly without strain. Anything else is just the blind leading the blind.

Quote by rockstar9999

i know it sounds stupid learning online, but i think its possible. i learned guitar the same way and im pretty good at it.


But with guitar, as long as you know you are playing the fifth string at the third fret and you can see yourself doing it, and you can see the instructions telling you to do that, then you can feel pretty confident that you are doing it correctly.

Even for technique, you can compare your hand position to the hand position to "the guy in the video" and feel reasonably confident that you're in the ballpark. Add to that the fact that your hand is no longer getting fatigued in a short period of time, and you can be pretty confident that your technique is coming along.

With singing, though, the indicators are aural and physiological. The best physiological example I can give is this: If some guy on a video tells you to yawn and demonstrates opening his mouth really wide and making an "Awwwwwhhhhmmmmm" sound, and then you try to imitate that by opening YOUR mouth really wide and making an "Awwwwwhhhmmmmm" sound, how sure are you that you have, indeed, yawned? You're NOT sure unless you *already know* what it feels like to yawn! Otherwise, all you know is that you did the same thing the guy on the video did. (erm... at least you *think* you did...)

Quote by rockstar9999

And there are some really good singers who are self taught as well.


Careful, though. I think Steven Tyler is easily one of the greatest rock singers ever. He is self-taught. He has horrible technique, though, and as a result, has had at least one (or more) surgeries on his vocal cords. Very few singers are self-taught AND have great technique.

Quote by rockstar9999

here's a vocal course that im willing to buy. it sounds really good. plus, he shows the correct techniques and exercises to develop a powerful voice...

http://kentamplinvocalacademy.com/

what do you think about it?


Admittedly, I haven't checked out the link, but I am betting the following:
-It can't tell you when you are doing it right or not.
-It can't help you to *feel* what you should be feeling when you sing. (see yawning example above) or where you should be feeling it.

Without those two things, it is pretty much useless.

Sure, it might try to tell you what you should be feeling, but like the example above, how do you tell someone what yawning feels like?

If I was to tell you what laughing feels like, looks like and sounds like, but you had never laughed before, would you be able to replicate the *actual* sensation of laughing, or would you just stand there in front of the computer screen squeezing your stomach inwards and saying "Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!" with a big smile on your face? Hey, you'd be following the instructions, copying the sound, and all the visual indicators would be there. Of course you're doing it right! Or are you?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#8
i agree on some of the things you said, but in my opinion, you can use your ears and record yourself to check your progress.

steven tyler has a raspy type of singing voice and it's more difficult to sing that way without damaging your voice.

singing clean is a lot more healthy,and in my opinion, i dont need a vocal coach to know when im straining. i feel it,
and of course i agree that vocal coach can always help, but i just think that it's possible to learn to sing without vocal coaches..

thanks for your replies. i will probably go to a vocal coach some day, but for now, i havent found it yet..
#9
I would like to chime in here and say that I agree with everything axemanchris is saying. What he says about exercises is fantastic - it's HOW you do them, not WHAT exercises you're doing. Good exercises are basically just a tool to explore how the voice behaves. Done well, they reinforce good vocal function and help you to get you where you want. Done badly, they are next to useless (except in teaching your body not what to do).

rockstar9999: yes you don't need a vocal coach to know you're straining. But what about the middle, comfortable part of your voice? Yes, it's comfortable, but it's likely that it's uncoordinated. And if you take that to the higher part of your voice, you'll be straining. A teacher will be able to pick up on this. Someone who doesn't know what to look for will not. This is why teachers are vital for singing. Like axemanchris said, it's not like guitar. I will also add it's not like many other sports where there is visual feedback to help you fix your problems. It is almost entirely reliant on sensory feedback. And a good teacher will guide you on what to feel for. Note that I said "feel for" not "listen for." What sounds good may not be healthy. And I'm not just talking about rock, but about any style. Any singing method based on sound rather than function (i.e. how things work physiologically) is focusing on the effect rather than the cause. And focusing on the effects will always be inferior than focusing on what causes those effects. Yes, teachers need to listen to you sing to help you. But the good teachers listen functionally (i.e. listening to how things are working, rather than how good it sounds) in order to help you with your technique. But it takes experience and time to learn listen in this way, which is why recording your singing and listening to it will not help your technique because your ears aren't able to pick up on those things (of course, you can still improve your interpretation and musicality this way). This is why a good teacher is vital if you want to sing healthy. Yes, people have learnt to sing without teachers, but those are the ones who have probably ended up with nodules and beat up voices.
#10
First of all, i think you're not right. not all self taught singers have nodules or some kind of a vocal damage..
Secondly, middle voice is like any other type of voice, i think its wrong to say that it's middle voice, because there is just one full voice. you have to work on connecting it, and just have to be relaxed. I think that mixed voice can be trained without a vocal teacher as well..
and you said that a good teacher will guide on what to feel for, but basically all of the dvd singing courses explain exercises in detail and even show an example,
teachers from dvd courses also explain "the feel" for an exercise..

i also think that recording yourself and listening to your tone, can be very helpful. it can definitely help your technique, of course, my ears are not as good as some professional vocal teachers have, but not all of the teachers are that good either..

dont get me wrong, i agree that it's great to have a good vocal coach, but you can definitely work on your voice on your own as well. and if you just want to sing in a band, i think it's possible to learn to sing without a vocal teacher..
#11
Quote by rockstar9999
First of all, i think you're not right. not all self taught singers have nodules or some kind of a vocal damage..


True enough. Kinda like saying "not all life-long smokers get cancer."

Quote by rockstar9999

and you said that a good teacher will guide on what to feel for, but basically all of the dvd singing courses explain exercises in detail and even show an example,
teachers from dvd courses also explain "the feel" for an exercise..


Kinda like my examples of laughing or yawning?

Quote by rockstar9999

i also think that recording yourself and listening to your tone, can be very helpful.


I found recording to have another very valuable effect. It allowed me to measure my progress in a pretty concrete way. I'd listen to recordings from a year prior and compare them to recordings made recently and KNOW that I was making progress. Then I'd archive the recent recording and go back to it a year down the road and then give it a listen and be pretty confident that I could do better again.

Quote by rockstar9999

dont get me wrong, i agree that it's great to have a good vocal coach, but you can definitely work on your voice on your own as well. and if you just want to sing in a band, i think it's possible to learn to sing without a vocal teacher..


Yes, you can work on your voice and you can get a voice that will be adequate to sing with a band without a vocal teacher. I refer to my Steven Tyler reference. He is a king among rock singers. But despite his obvious gift for being able to sing with the best of them, he was not able to teach himself technique - or at least a technique that would allow him to sing in a way that would excuse him from the surgeon's table.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#12
that's your opinion about it...

thanks for helping me!

i have another thread about singing like all time low ( alex gaskarth)

can you please give me some tips on where to start with singing like that?
i sing in my mixed voice but i can get only to a g4 in a song without straining. i can go higher but then i feel like im straining. how do you think alex learned to sing like this?

here's all time low:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=797F...DCDFDF0DE4EA0A3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCRa1hfOuVM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sE2...&feature=relmfu
#13
Only the second link worked, but he isn't doing anything tricky or anything out of the ordinary. He's just singing. If he is singing past the G4 and you're straining to get past that note, all it means is that his vocal cords are thinner and/or shorter than yours, which means his voice pitches naturally higher than yours. He's not engaging any special technique or anything.

(at least not in the first verse or chorus....)

He's also singing from his throat, which means he will probably need to undergo surgery at some point unless he either learns to sing properly or gets really, really lucky.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#14
i dont think that he has thinner chords than mine, i am a tenor and cant sing those low notes... and my bridges are the same notes that tenors have...
i listened to earlier stuff by all time low and even acoustic performances, and he didnt have that range.
i think he sings in his mixed voice. but how can i get my mix higher with all that power?
i dont think he uses throat that much, its definitely better than a few years ago..
here is an older video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Q60eFgUZ4
and here is the new one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Q60eFgUZ4
#15
Quote by rockstar9999

i sing in my mixed voice but i can get only to a g4 in a song without straining. i can go higher but then i feel like im straining.


This clearly suggests that you are not a tenor, but a baritone like the other 80% of us.

A tenor should be able to sing to the C above that.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#16
Quote by rockstar9999
i dont think that he has thinner chords than mine, i am a tenor and cant sing those low notes... and my bridges are the same notes that tenors have...


The other possibility is that you are a tenor, but you need to learn how to produce your voice properly to "unlock" those notes that you can't yet reach.

Quote by rockstar9999

i listened to earlier stuff by all time low and even acoustic performances, and he didnt have that range.


Maybe he's been taking lessons?

Quote by rockstar9999

i think he sings in his mixed voice.


Yes.

Quote by rockstar9999

but how can i get my mix higher with all that power?


With all *what* power? His high notes are all pinched and choked off because he can barely reach them himself.

In any case, to increase your range, you need to remove the barriers that are preventing you from reaching your maximum range. Once you remove those barriers, then you are stuck with what you have. Your vocal cords are a fixed length and thickness. Once you reach a certain point, physics imposes limitations on just how fast or how slow they will be permitted to vibrate.

Quote by rockstar9999

i dont think he uses throat that much,


He does. A fair bit.

Quote by rockstar9999

its definitely better than a few years ago..


So it seems that he is producing his voice differently now. That means that he luckily stumbled across some things that work for him or has been taking lessons.

In any case, he isn't "there" yet. He still needs to either find a better way or continue learning to produce his voice even better still or he could be in for some trouble.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#17
i probably didn't see these, but try some vocal exercises to warm you up. or if you want to try some vocal stuff, go to the singing sucess youtube page.