#1
I'm going to keep this fairly straight forward and not make this into a giant wall of text. What I need is just your opinions about the following amps, which I have found on various auctioning sites.

My needs are they the amp sound have a good metal tone, with sufficiable wattage to play it home without killing somebody over the volume. So I've been searching for something in the 40-60 watt range.

The amps are as following

A 40 watt Peavey XXX, 112 combo.

An Engl Screamer 60 watt 112

A Bogner Alchemist 212

Peavey 5150 combo (212, with V30's)


I've heard the Peavey's cleans are pretty much bad, but has excellent metal tone, but if I can get a good amp with nice clean, and good distorted tone, then I am willing to take that before a one trick pony.

Or maybe some other head with a 212 cab?

800 euros' my budget for now (which would be equal to 1000 usd, but keep in mind amps are more expensive here in Europe).


Thank you!

Suttam
#3
Peavey 5150 cleans are okay at best. XXX are quite useable. Out of those two I'd say the XXX. Haven't tried the others, though Bogner seems to be quite liked here.
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#4
I like the Bogner the most out of those.
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#5
The Triple XXX actually has beautiful cleans. I find the gain channel on mine useless, I've only kept it because the cleans were so nice. Sweet, chiming, harmonically rich. The 5150, on the other hand...I've played one that actually had crossover distortion. CROSSOVER distortion. That's just plain wrong.

Never played the Engl. Of those four, I'd choose the Bogner. It's a lovely amp.
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#6
i haven't tried the bogner, but i'd probably take the engl- engls sound pretty good at lower volumes.

EDIT: wow, two alchemist suggestions? you guys realise it's the cheaper, not-actually-made-by-bogner bogner, right?

not even gonna bother trolling the blackstar suggestion
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#9
oh i agree, but teh actual proper bogners. I haven't tried the alchemist, but there's no guarantee it's as nice as a "real" one.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#10
Out of those I'd probably go for the 5150. I haven't heard of that Bogner combo and I don't like ENGL as much as I wish I did. The Peavey Triple XXX sounds ok, but not nearly as good to my ear as 5150. The cleans on the 5150 are not really awful, but they're not awesome either. However, probably good enough for me since it has the pre- and post-gain for each channel. I'd definitely check that out cause what I heard from a few clips, the V30's in it sound better to me than the stock Sheffield speakers.

However, you could take a Marshall DSL401 into consideration. It's a little bit over the given budget, but you can always find a nice deal used.
It's more than a decent combo and I can recommend it cause I have one and I've got a realistic picture of it's sound, not just clips or what the pros use. Good cleans, nice rock sounds and IMO a good distorted sound.
Features:
Individual EQ for clean and lead channel (lead channel also has a channel volume)
OD1/2 options on lead channel (same EQ though)
Master reverb, fx mix and volume
Comes with the footswitch for switching from clean to lead and OD1 to OD2,
Possibility to get a footswitch for the reverb, parallel fx loop, has the option for an extended speaker cabinet, 12" speaker and 40 watts.
Gear pics

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Last edited by Sakke at Dec 29, 2011,
#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
oh i agree, but teh actual proper bogners. I haven't tried the alchemist, but there's no guarantee it's as nice as a "real" one.

The one I played sounded great. Not quite up there with other Bogners I've tried, but then again I've never played a "real" Bogner with that kind of voicing (only two Shivas and an Uberschall).
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#12
I've played the Bogner, it's alright but not as good dirt for metal. It has good cleans and the onboard effects aren't bad, either.

I'd probably do the Screamer or the XXX.
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#13
Quote by Sakke
Out of those I'd probably go for the 5150. I haven't heard of that Bogner combo and I don't like ENGL as much as I wish I did. The Peavey Triple XXX sounds ok, but not nearly as good to my ear as 5150. The cleans on the 5150 are not really awful, but they're not awesome either. However, probably good enough for me since it has the pre- and post-gain for each channel. I'd definitely check that out cause what I heard from a few clips, the V30's in it sound better to me than the stock Sheffield speakers.

However, you could take a Marshall DSL401 into consideration. It's a little bit over the given budget, but you can always find a nice deal used.
It's more than a decent combo and I can recommend it cause I have one and I've got a realistic picture of it's sound, not just clips or what the pros use. Good cleans, nice rock sounds and IMO a good distorted sound.
Features:
Individual EQ for clean and lead channel (lead channel also has a channel volume)
OD1/2 options on lead channel (same EQ though)
Master reverb, fx mix and volume
Comes with the footswitch for switching from clean to lead and OD1 to OD2,
Possibility to get a footswitch for the reverb, parallel fx loop, has the option for an extended speaker cabinet, 12" speaker and 40 watts.


I actually found a JCM 2000 TSL 112 in the price range as the other ones, I guess DSL stands for "double super lead" as opposed to TSL, which would be triple?

Still I'm just a bit worried if it has enough gain for heavier types of metal, with a boost maybe? I don't know. Also I have found myself to prefer 6l6's before EL34's.
#14
Quote by Suttam
I actually found a JCM 2000 TSL 112 in the price range as the other ones, I guess DSL stands for "double super lead" as opposed to TSL, which would be triple?

Still I'm just a bit worried if it has enough gain for heavier types of metal, with a boost maybe? I don't know. Also I have found myself to prefer 6l6's before EL34's.


Yes, TSL is Triple Super Lead. Though, in my opinion, it has far too many options to mess with, especially the TSL122 model... That's why DSL is better to me. Although, I'd like to have the reverb separated. I mostly use it only with cleans. But that's why there's always a footswitch.

DSL has plenty of gain available, so I guess it's the same for TSL.
I play mostly death metal and then some lighter stuff and my gain is set at 1 o'clock on OD2 channel for the death metal stuff. For something lighter, I have the gain set at 5 o'clock. What really makes the sound come more alive is the channel and master volume. The louder you play, the better it sounds, it's the reality
I've got a Gibson LP Studio with stock Gibson pickups so, they're not really high output and do not really create a lot of distortion or how to say it.

There's of course one slight problem. The amount of distortion I want might not be the same what you're looking for.
Gear pics

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Last edited by Sakke at Dec 29, 2011,
#15
Quote by Sakke
Yes, TSL is Triple Super Lead. Though, in my opinion, it has far too many options to mess with, especially the TSL122 model... That's why DSL is better to me. Although, I'd like to have the reverb separated. I mostly use it only with cleans. But that's why there's always a footswitch.

DSL has plenty of gain available, so I guess it's the same for TSL.
I play mostly death metal and then some lighter stuff and my gain is set at 1 o'clock on OD2 channel for the death metal stuff. For something lighter, I have the gain set at 5 o'clock. What really makes the sound come more alive is the channel and master volume. The louder you play, the better it sounds, it's the reality
I've got a Gibson LP Studio with stock Gibson pickups so, they're not really high output and do not really create a lot of distortion or how to say it.


Alright man! I'm definitely going to take it into consideration, thanks for the great posts, kudos!
#17
Quote by Suttam

My needs are they the amp sound have a good metal tone


This means nothing to us. We're just shooting suggestions in the dark right now, based on what we like, or what we think is a good metal tone.

You need to elaborate specifically on what bands you want to sound like in order for us to give you any serious suggestions.
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#18
Quote by AeolianSeventh
The one I played sounded great. Not quite up there with other Bogners I've tried, but then again I've never played a "real" Bogner with that kind of voicing (only two Shivas and an Uberschall).


yeah, i've only tried teh ecstacy and shiva

i'm just a bit suspicious because i wasn't too fussed on the line 6 spider valve (which also has bogner's name plastered all over it)

maybe teh alchemist is great
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Certainly not either Peavey...

The ENGL has a smooth, "polite but aggressive" thing going on, it works well with high output and bright pickups/guitars. The problem comes on the clean front, it can't do the squeaky clean sounds of a fender very well.

I've only played the bogner briefly, it didn't sound as aggressive as the other amps you mentioned (but that maybe the settings that I tried.) Maybe somebody with more experience with it can tell you more. The mid-gain tones are great, very smooth and balanced. The cleans are fairly sparkly if you roll down the volume on your guitar and are very balanced. This amp is "more difficult" to play than the ENGL as it is very touch sensitive. However it's not at the same level as say a THD.

Regarding the DSL/TSL suggestion: the crunch is good. The high gain sounds are too flubby to be useful (although boosting the crunch sound with an OD works well) and the cleans are dull, they don't break up well and are not squeaky clean. If you like the marshall sound you could do far worse.


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#21
i thought the screamer's cleans were pretty nice for a high gainer, but then i'm no fender afficionado

But i'd agree with the "polite but aggressive" thing- that's a good way to put it. a lot of people don't like engls because they almost sound already processed, like on the record... but if you don't mind that they're nice amps.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
Quote by power freak
...

I've only played the bogner briefly, it didn't sound as aggressive as the other amps you mentioned (but that maybe the settings that I tried.) Maybe somebody with more experience with it can tell you more. The mid-gain tones are great, very smooth and balanced. The cleans are fairly sparkly if you roll down the volume on your guitar and are very balanced. This amp is "more difficult" to play than the ENGL as it is very touch sensitive. However it's not at the same level as say a THD.

...

You nailed it.